"Aleste 520EX" - does anyone ever heard about this computer??

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By mars2000you

Enlighted (6229)

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04-08-2006, 14:50

This kind of machine lets me think to the Sord M5, a machine used mainly in Czechoslovakia. Three different kind of programs can be used on this machine, as it has cartridges to accept MSX1 and ZXSpectrum games !

By PingPong

Prophet (3889)

PingPong's picture

04-08-2006, 15:21

@Valeriya:

clearly is easy to emulate things like you said.
But there are a lot of msx2 games that use trycky features of VDP (screen splits, line ints and so one). Some games rely also on vdp sprite coincidence flag...

I repeat : this is not an emulation. Emulating the vdp means doing almost exacly what the vdp does not finding a way to achieve the same result in a similar way. HW could not be emulated with so low cpu power. try to look at the work that do our today's PC when emulating a CPC or MSX or c64.

With the enourmus amount of power available i get a processor occupancy of 18% in average on my p4 centrino @ 1.8ghz!

Saying that aleste emulate the vdp of msx2 is the same to say that MSX1 games ported from speccy emulate the speccy video hw.

Programmers largely used to port zx spectrum games to msx1 writing only the subroutine that usually put the back-buffer in vram. the rest was as in zx spectrum.

Doing some things surely works, but often results are by far what we can expect and sure, reimplementing the sw for the machine can achieve results far better. (look at operation wolf for example!).
Often this kind of emulation result in a shit!

By PingPong

Prophet (3889)

PingPong's picture

04-08-2006, 15:28

>16Kbytes*50Hz = 800Kb/s on CPC
>54Kbytes*50Hz = 2700Kb/s on MSX2

Answer simple: who said that CPU should do it each frame? It was not. CPU does it for two maybe more frames. But game was playble still. Many people played and pas KVII and VK and so on. The point was not that it worked same like MSX. It worked different - for example sprites not flash when was allot of them. Anyway result and project was amazing. Who else did it?

Surely! they do not flicker because are sw implemented. But what happens if i do a very intensive and quick animation using all 32 sprites plotted on screen? Most probably doing a pixel by pixel animation results in more than 4 frames skipped. the original does not skip.

By Valeriya

Resident (45)

Valeriya's picture

04-08-2006, 15:35

No, it draw all sprites an do not wait so much time as u imagine. It also does not suport swap sprites, it just draw all two sprite buffers.

BTW Danymic games did not work because game became slower and it is not good for games whithc is dynamic.

And again I repeat: the point was not that it make 50 frames per second, point was that game was playable! I mean it has more that 12 - 25 fps

By PingPong

Prophet (3889)

PingPong's picture

04-08-2006, 16:41

No, it draw all sprites an do not wait so much time as u imagine. It also does not suport swap sprites, it just draw all two sprite buffers.

BTW Danymic games did not work because game became slower and it is not good for games whithc is dynamic.

And again I repeat: the point was not that it make 50 frames per second, point was that game was playable! I mean it has more that 12 - 25 fps

I do not think. with a large amount of sprites could not be up to 10 framesx seconds. this is because msx sprites are piece of bits not nearly compatible to the bitmapped modes. So you cannot do a ldir to copy because:

- Bit encoding layout is different, similar to the CPC monocromatic mode, but sprites overlap on a 16 color mode.
- You need to support trasparency.
- You spend some time to calculate address for plotting sprites.

So adding to those requirements the needing of some animations (scrolls) and the needing to save / restore buffers you could not get > than 12fps. But if a game is based on a higher frame rate, slowing it or frameskipping it would impact severely on playability

HW sprites are somewhat limited in all platforms but there is a reason for this limit. HW sprites literally FLY! this is because could not be emulated in SW at a reasonable speed.

There are however some msx2 games that uses SW sprites made with VDP, but results are by far less smooth than using more limited HW sprites.

By jltursan

Prophet (2619)

jltursan's picture

04-08-2006, 17:48

HW could not be emulated with so low cpu power. try to look at the work that do our today's PC when emulating a CPC or MSX or c64.

With the enourmus amount of power available i get a processor occupancy of 18% in average on my p4 centrino @ 1.8ghz!

Well, I remember me playing with the first spectrum emulator I saw, circa 93, and getting about 1/2-1/3 of the full speed on an old Amstrad 1640 (XT 8Mhz). Of course an spectrum is a far easier machine to emulate than a MSX; but we must not forget that Windows "middleware" and high-level languages are always stealing CPU power...

By PingPong

Prophet (3889)

PingPong's picture

04-08-2006, 20:54

HW could not be emulated with so low cpu power. try to look at the work that do our today's PC when emulating a CPC or MSX or c64.

With the enourmus amount of power available i get a processor occupancy of 18% in average on my p4 centrino @ 1.8ghz!

Well, I remember me playing with the first spectrum emulator I saw, circa 93, and getting about 1/2-1/3 of the full speed on an old Amstrad 1640 (XT 8Mhz). Of course an spectrum is a far easier machine to emulate than a MSX; but we must not forget that Windows "middleware" and high-level languages are always stealing CPU power...

Yes, but not so far easier. to have raster effects we need high speed sync & refresh.

About windows, you are absolutely right! but remember most emu does use also DirectX that alleviate the load using the facilities of HW .

By Argon

Paragon (1119)

Argon's picture

05-08-2006, 09:22

@mars2000you:

The Sord M5 did NOT use MSX cartridges (I used to own one), I sold it to Jazzy.
Some of the games for it were ports from konami games (ex. Crazy Train), but the OS and the cartridges were definitely not MSX.

K.

By Trebmint

Champion (294)

Trebmint's picture

05-08-2006, 09:44

So is the Aleste 520 on the list of symbos porting? Does a working copy of this machine still exist?

By mars2000you

Enlighted (6229)

mars2000you's picture

05-08-2006, 09:55

Argon : thanks for the precisions, the infos were on a czechoslovakian site, but as you can imagine, I don't understand this language and online translators are not so good ...

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