Buying a V9958 from ebay

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By John_Warner

Expert (73)

John_Warner's picture

27-03-2019, 06:32

Good day folks.
What is the problem, if fake chip works properly?
Problem in origin only?
I think, it's not a worst trouble.

By Nprod

Resident (36)

Nprod's picture

27-03-2019, 11:09

John_Warner wrote:

Good day folks.
What is the problem, if fake chip works properly?
Problem in origin only?
I think, it's not a worst trouble.

Read the thread again and try to understand it correctly - the fake chip doesn't work, it doesn't even fit in the socket.

By Alexey

Guardian (2232)

Alexey's picture

27-03-2019, 11:50

Wow! This is a diversion - to send MC68000 CPUs to MSX users! They want to Appleize/Motorolize us. Wink From now on I will try to use white spirit to reveal what under the possibly fake markings on the chip is. Or something even stronger...

By c32f

Supporter (3)

c32f's picture

27-03-2019, 14:16

Quote:

Comparing the photo to the real thing, the most obvious difference is that the real V9958 doesn't have a notch in the middle of one side

Also they use a DIP64 package , you can check it in a pic without scale with the ratio of the thinner part and the wider of a pin.

Quote:

You should report the seller, if anything so that other people don't make the mistake of buying them.

The seller took down the listing as soon as I told them. Now he has at least 280 fake V9958 to deal with

Quote:

Wow! This is a diversion - to send MC68000 CPUs to MSX users! They want to Appleize/Motorolize us

LOL

By Nprod

Resident (36)

Nprod's picture

27-03-2019, 20:17

I just noticed the fake ones are ©1701 instead of 1988...

By c32ff

Supporter (3)

c32ff's picture

18-07-2019, 19:06

There is another seller that seems to be selling the same fake V9958s but he might have just stole the photo
https://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-V9958-Video-Display-Processor-...

By RetroTechie

Paragon (1563)

RetroTechie's picture

18-07-2019, 22:04

John_Warner wrote:

What is the problem, if fake chip works properly? Problem in origin only?

  • It's not what you paid for. Paid for original part from manufacturer X. Get "something" from manufacturer Y. Even if working: specifications can differ between manufacturers even for same part #. That's why a Bill-Of-Materials for professional equipment ALWAYS specifies manufacturer for each part: designer specifies, and intended part from that specific manufacturer to be used. Collectors value is 0 for relabeled parts, etc.
  • Probably won't meet specs. Meaning equipment it's used in can fail to do its job even if designer did his/hers.
  • Failure may cause damage to (expensive?) equipment that wouldn't have happened with a genuine part.
  • In the case of power electronics: failure may present a fire hazard, potentially even loss of life. Yes chances are slim. But by now it wouldn't be the first time a fake Apple charger causes a house fire with a couple hundred k$ worth of damage. Or a shed burning down because a recycled 18650 Li-ion in an e-bike battery pack popped. Or a fake power transistor causes a $500 speaker to blow up. This kind of shit happens, and it costs real money. Not to mention airplane parts... (although you'd be an idiot to source safety-critical airplane parts through eBay).
  • No use for decapping + reverse engineering the silicon traces.
  • Some obscure / undocumented features may work on authentic part, produce garbage with fake part.
  • This list is not exhaustive... need I go on?
c32ff wrote:

There is another seller that seems to be selling the same fake V9958s but he might have just stole the photo
https://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-V9958-Video-Display-Processor-IC-YAMAHA-DIP-64/153336031639?hash=item23b38a2997:g:otgAAOSwlfNcOFQM

Actually my fingers are itching to order a good # of them. Say 10-15 or so. One of 2 things may happen:

  1. They're actually the real deal, and I'd have 10-15 of them at a good price, sitting ready to sell on to buyers in the NL (no problem finding those I think, if parts are tested OK & shipping within country). Or more likely
  2. eBay's/PayPal's money back guarantee would be invoked, chances are eBay or PayPal would turn to seller, and seller would be out of $100+. And I might be stuck with a heap of other 64 pin DIP IC's like 68000 cpu's (like!). Might take a while though.

Fakes are a real problem, and a big one. People that (knowingly) sell fakes are the scum of the earth imho. So if there's any way for me to make life difficult for these low-lifes, count me in!

By c32ff

Supporter (3)

c32ff's picture

23-07-2019, 20:55

Quote:

Actually my fingers are itching to order a good # of them. Say 10-15 or so. One of 2 things may happen:

That would be a good idea but i'm afraid of the 1% chance of loosing my money
i think some store somewhere got a lot of dead m68k from somewhere and painted them as the most expensive chip they could find and just gave them to the market so sellers don't even know they have fake ones.
I was thinking of sending this seller a message to try and scratch one of their chips but i didn't bother , instead i posted here
Also his picture is the same as the other listing the got taken down so he didn't even bother taking a picture of his chips so it might very well be that he has genuine ones and grabbed the wrong image

(also btw i lost access to my old account c32f but i don't really care that much)

By c32ff

Supporter (3)

c32ff's picture

23-07-2019, 20:58

Also i did quickly test the m68k i had received and they showed signs of executing NOP correctly but I'm not familiar enough with the CPU to test it properly

By RetroTechie

Paragon (1563)

RetroTechie's picture

25-07-2019, 21:20

If I were re-selling such vintage chips I wouldn't bother with small batches of a few dozen. And find ways to test at least 1 or 2 specimens of each batch. Or only buy IC's that you have means to test specimens from. Even if it's a basic "works" / "doesn't work" check. Not to mention that being able to rely on companies / persons you source the parts from, is an important part of trading PERIOD.

So I don't know which of

c32ff wrote:

(..) and just gave them to the market so sellers don't even know

(read: buyers didn't check any of the incoming parts, who they bought from, or in case of V9958 vs. 68K cpu not even package outline in the datasheet), or

Quote:

he didn't even bother taking a picture of his chips

or

Quote:

so it might very well be that he has genuine ones and grabbed the wrong image

is dumber.
Says at least as much about the seller as about the parts (s)he's selling, imho. For that reason alone worth questioning if you want to do business with them.

Similar standard I apply to eBay / Ali etc listings: description + photo(s) + info from datasheets (or things you can calculate) MUST match. Otherwise I skip onto the next entry. If you took photo yourself (or at least checked what's in the picture) and copied info from datasheet, it will. 2nd hand or new doesn't matter for this. Try it, and be amazed how many offerings fail this simple test! No photo at all (too much effort) for an item that's supposed to cost you $30, "switching frequency: 400 kHz" in description for an LM2596 board (which IC works @ 150 kHz), same offering but photo shows some XL... part, max. input voltage listed as 50V but photo shows board with 35V rated caps on it, photo clearly ripped from random internet site, "supply voltage: 3V/5V" (but spec says it's a 5V only part), mass volume part with type markings indicating it's non-RoHS compliant but manufactured in 2017 when manufacturer was only producing RoHS compliant parts, etc, etc, etc.

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