Checking interest for DalSoRi version 2

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By Grauw

Ascended (8447)

Grauw's picture

17-02-2017, 22:24

@JohnHassink You’ve got it pretty much right. I agree with you, there is indeed no problem.

Not all roads proposed by JunSoft are fully compatible with MSX-AUDIO. Only the 1st was, but I think it is a major undertaking, so I think it’s wise to defer that to a v3. But the BIOS is a step towards it and will at least provide partial compatibility for some software. It works similarly to Tiny_Yarou’s Nandemo*-projects, and additionally, it will be able to play MSX-AUDIO music which uses just the OPL and no samples.

By the way, a little interesting detail of the 4M sample RAM that you may not realise: when the usual ROM + RAM combination is used, 384 voices are reserved for the ROM, and the RAM can use the remaining 128. Enough for most applications, but still. When the ROM is replaced by 4M RAM though, you can freely define all 512 voices, which is nice. It does require software support though.

For example, for VGMPlay it is easier to support all different OPL4 VGMs if the MoonSound has this switchable ROM + RAM and 4M RAM setup. For MSX music I can use the ROM + RAM, and for arcade music I can switch to 4M RAM mode. But this is not the case historically, so I still have to work around the issue by remapping voice numbers and sample addresses (also to deal with lesser memories) if I wish to support existing MoonSounds (I do), so whether it is of much immediate benefit to me… Still, I like it, it opens possibilities for the future.

By Langoor2

Supporter (12)

Langoor2's picture

17-02-2017, 23:03

I can't speak for other people but indeed it has been my wish to have a 4MB RAM MoonSound ever since I read in the OPL4 manual this was technically possible a few years ago. I'm not writing any MoonSound software though. I'm confused about this statement from mars2000you.

This is my final message on this thread. I do not appreciate all the name-calling and accusations. Is that normal here? Other posters seem to accept it?! Where are the moderators?!

By JohnHassink

Ambassador (5413)

JohnHassink's picture

17-02-2017, 23:07

There seem to be moderators, but let's assume we're all big boys, here. Wink
Seriously, though, and this goes for everyone: this doesn't seem like a topic to get worked up about.
So either suggest what you want or don't want in this new piece of hardware, and try to stay on-topic. No more derailments.

By Colemu

Hero (531)

Colemu's picture

17-02-2017, 23:34

Langoor2 wrote:

I can't speak for other people but indeed it has been my wish to have a 4MB RAM MoonSound ever since I read in the OPL4 manual this was technically possible a few years ago. I'm not writing any MoonSound software though. I'm confused about this statement from mars2000you.

This is my final message on this thread. I do not appreciate all the name-calling and accusations. Is that normal here? Other posters seem to accept it?! Where are the moderators?!

No it isn't normal. I've been visiting this forum for the last 5 years, and this is the first I've seen (unlike many other forums).
I keep coming back because of the great atmosphere, members are extremely friendly and helpful.

By JunSoft

Resident (34)

JunSoft's picture

18-02-2017, 12:21

l_oliveira wrote:

Honestly you guys are doing this wrong. I *thought* you were using a big SDRAM memory to save costs. Instead, you guys take expensive SRAMs to make a cart simpler. The FPGA + SDRAM costs less than just the 4MB of SRAM you guys intend to use.

In my experience, SRAM is bit expensive more than SDRAM, but FPGA is much expensive than CPLD.
For example, when SRAM's price is 5 USD, SDRAM's price is aroud 2 USD. However, when CPLD 's price is around 10USD,
FPGA's is 20USD or more.

Moreover, FPGA and SDRAM operate at 3.3V or less. This makes the design complex. Additional power system, signal level converting is required. Generally, a large number of pins is a burden, because PCB size must also be increased.

Apparently, FPGA and SDRAM is cost effective solution when considering it's price per capacity. But this rule can't be applied directly into our beloved MSX system. I applied FPGA solution for my another product, named FlashPack Lite. But this is not the case because it's quite simple than DalSoRi.

By JunSoft

Resident (34)

JunSoft's picture

18-02-2017, 12:25

Grauw wrote:

Well, JunSoft’s introduction to the western forums is a good one, with all the bickering going on Shocked! .

Exactly! Smile

Still DalSoRi v2 goes on it's way, whether I sell it or not. Big smile

By sd_snatcher

Prophet (3068)

sd_snatcher's picture

18-02-2017, 13:50

@Grauw

You have summarized the situation perfectly in your two last messages.

I would add that it's not about imposing the MSX rules, but more about deflecting that pressure to derail the entire project to support hacked hardware and non-standard way of coding, at the expense of those who really follow the rules.

The idea that originated this project wasn't mine, and was born to increase the possibilities and the compatibility for all users. Many people contributed with nice ideas on that thread, and it was fun and productive.

But now, after the broad requirements were already solid from that thread, and that only the fine tuning details were being adjusted for production, the idea was being derailed to please the desires of a single person who wishes nothing more than the usual OPL4 cartridge that can be obtained elsewhere. To make the situation even more awkward, the guy has just stated he isn't developing anything to support the specs he's fighting for. IOW, it's just for the sake of having 4MB of SampleRAM. Like a moose head hanging on a wall.

OTOH, the MSX-Audio BIOS v1.3 is out for quite a long time, and it's just a matter of putting it on a new device so anyone can benefit of its features.

By sd_snatcher

Prophet (3068)

sd_snatcher's picture

18-02-2017, 13:59

@JunSoft

I'm terribly sorry for the circus you have seen here. This is usually a place where good friends meet to exchange ideas from their many different fields of knowledge. As you can see in the original thread with the original Retrofan's idea, things went smooth and there were no aggressive users trying to impose their ideas.

You can also see there that there are a lot of people interested in an OPL4 cartridge with BIOS, ADPCM, and/or with 4MB of WaveRAM. Maybe it's just a matter of time before someone (probably you) find a way to cram these features inside a cartridge at a bit more accessible price. Probably the NMS-1210/Moonsound/Franky cartridge shell will have to be used for that since it has more space. But that's fine since many projects use this larger shell.

By ro

Guardian (4118)

ro's picture

18-02-2017, 16:23

"Great minds discuss ideas".
Sometimes a discussion will cause irritation, which is what humans are good at. No problem, we count the numbers, take a deep breath and be humble. That is what we do at MRC too, no moderation necessary.

Let's discuss ideas.

By sd_snatcher

Prophet (3068)

sd_snatcher's picture

19-02-2017, 00:35

Big smile

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