Combine SCC and PSG + Another music hardware device ?

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By Dhampird

Hero (589)

Dhampird's picture

15-06-2011, 02:39

Hello, i know there are audio cartridges existence like:

FM-PAC / FM-PAK = MSX-Music (OPLL)

Works with (games):
Almost all MSX2/2+/turboR games produced after 1988
Almost all demos/disk magazines/music disks e.g. made after 1990

Music Module = MSX-Audio (OPL(1)-compatible)

Works with (games):
Most of the Disc Stations by Compile
Some Compile Games

Moonsound =(OPL4)

Works with (games):
Sunrise Games?

I´m looking a music hardware cartidge that allows combine SCC or PSG adding new channels of sound meanwhile SCC or PSG are working, i think all above cartidges cant works for SCC music (adding more channels) and i think above sound cartidges work with PSG according if that specific PSG game is compatible or not with it. In msx i prefer Konami games, for example if i play Vampire Killer original sound is PSG (the only way to get PSG "sounds better" in this case will be use "PSG to SCC" conversion util from Playsoniq, i only knows this for PSG), if i play Metal Gear the game is SCC and i dont know how could i get more channels or combine someway with another sound cartidge to best audio experience using SCC... willñ be possible combine 2 SCC working in only one game?

If you know any way to improve SCC or PSG sound in-gaming please tell me about it...

Thanks a lot.

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By JohnHassink

Ambassador (5655)

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15-06-2011, 02:44

It's an interesting thought, but how about the effort which would be needed by the MSX CPU?
Would such a PSG+SCC soundchip maybe need its own processor?

BTW, a whole lot of Dutch games from mid-late '90's used the MSX Music/MSX Audio combo ( or "MB Stereo" ). Smile

By Dhampird

Hero (589)

Dhampird's picture

15-06-2011, 03:49

It's an interesting thought, but how about the effort which would be needed by the MSX CPU?
Would such a PSG+SCC soundchip maybe need its own processor?

Maybe msx with Turbo like 8Mhz will help? i dont know, and at 8mhz SCC will be needed to be fixed to 3.58Mhz, like PSG.

BTW, a whole lot of Dutch games from mid-late '90's used the MSX Music/MSX Audio combo ( or "MB Stereo" ). Smile

Yes. but there is nothing available for SCC Konami games Crying, i´m wondering if "PSG to SCC" Playsoniq util will be someday "SCC to OPL4" LOL! , see and ear this video that i found (note the video is not real, is a edited video with SCC Space Manbow sound edited to OPL4, or something like that):

www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWI287225UU

It would be a dream get a sound hardware that will be capable transform all SCC Konami games and also PSG Konami games to OPL4 or something similar.

Here is "PSG to SCC" Playsoniq util working in-game:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGkPC1xwv64

I think this "PSG to SCC" is implemented in FPQA and is not clear id this tool also work with Msx Turbo updates, like 7Mhz or more. Some people told like with 7Mhz the sound begin to fail in Playsoniq, it seems only works with 3.58Mhz.

By JohnHassink

Ambassador (5655)

JohnHassink's picture

15-06-2011, 04:30

SCC waves may be 'resampled' and put as user generated waves in the Moonsound RAM. But then it would sound as... SCC. Smile

By Dhampird

Hero (589)

Dhampird's picture

15-06-2011, 05:07

SCC waves may be 'resampled' and put as user generated waves in the Moonsound RAM. But then it would sound as... SCC. Smile

Then is not possible without special hardware ... ?¿

By JohnHassink

Ambassador (5655)

JohnHassink's picture

15-06-2011, 05:19

Or, somewhat similar to the MIDI-PAC, find good 'replacements' for SCC sounds in the Moonsound ROM containing the standard waves.
A big difference ofcourse being, that it's more logical to select alternatives for FM presets from a General MIDI instrument set.
Also, the PSG (and its noise) would have to be converted to something useful.
So there has to be some well-thought schedule behind it, I think.

By syn

Prophet (2113)

syn's picture

15-06-2011, 13:22

Maybe you could make sounds sound "fatter" by splitting it into 2 channels and slightly detuning one of them (slightly lower or higher)

So you could have like MSX SCC+PSG at normal frequency, and an expension module with SCC+PSG, that plays the same as the msx but slightly detuned, the 2 combined should result in slightly fuller sound

You could even create a pseude-stereo effect with this setup, by connecting the expension module to a seperate channel on your amplifier than your msx (say msx left, module right)

Somethign like this for C64's sid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7Ze8X9rQdI

By Vampier

Prophet (2409)

Vampier's picture

17-06-2011, 18:34

By Dhampird

Hero (589)

Dhampird's picture

18-06-2011, 04:05

Mmnnnn....

"Somethign like this for C64's sid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7Ze8X9rQdI "

-Interesting topic, i will have to investigate that circuit...

"I'll leave this here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H-8obo8Tjw"

-Vampier, SCC sounds great that way, how did you get it? That video, is a audio mix edited from pc? or, did you get that "square waves SCC effect" from MSX with any mod?

By hit9918

Prophet (2927)

hit9918's picture

19-06-2011, 20:15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H-8obo8Tjw

I'll leave this here
@vampier, is it really all square wave?
e.g. at 1:00 it still feels like SCC, like some non-square is in there?

By Vampier

Prophet (2409)

Vampier's picture

19-06-2011, 21:45

yeah those are real Square waves on SCC.... this is on openMSX.

Back in 2009 I wrote a script for openMSX that translated PSG into SCC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlC-cVfiyuU&NR=1 (this was the first attempt to get it to work)

images.vampier.net/onzin/scc_editor.png

This script was also the inspiration for the playsonic ;)

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