Internal of several MSX Computers: Canon V-8, V-10, V-20 / Toshiba HX-33 / YASHICA YC-64 / PHILIPS VG-8020/19

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By sd_snatcher

Prophet (2838)

sd_snatcher's picture

23-07-2015, 03:19

Some more MSX pr0n. This time, denuded cartridges.

By gamemastermaarten

Master (164)

gamemastermaarten's picture

23-07-2015, 08:31

sd_snatcher wrote:

Some more MSX pr0n. This time, denuded cartridges.

Wow big thanks for the info. :D sd_snatcher Shame that this collector only have the Cartbridges chips. :-? I really love to seen the outside of the cartridges. Or even better with Manual and Case or package. ;)

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5372)

mars2000you's picture

12-02-2016, 20:20

sd_snatcher wrote:

Now that HX-33 is a beautiful machine, heh? It seems to have a very sturdy
construction too.

Some unusual characteristics got my attention though:

Are these unusual charasteristics also in the HX-34 ? Especially the MSX-Engines ???

By sd_snatcher

Prophet (2838)

sd_snatcher's picture

26-02-2016, 15:22

mars2000you wrote:

Are these unusual charasteristics also in the HX-34 ? Especially the MSX-Engines ???

Dunno. I never saw any pictures of the HX-34 internals.

BTW, here's something you don't see every day: this guy made some cool composites showing transparent and cut views of many MSX models.

By Manuel

Ascended (14680)

Manuel's picture

15-09-2018, 21:04

Manuel wrote:

I'd like to see a list of all these Toshiba TCX-xxxx chips with a description of what exactly they are doing...

So, there's a list on the Wiki here: https://www.msx.org/wiki/Category:Toshiba#Components
in that table, all TCX-xxxx chips are listed as MSX-Engines... but is that really true? E.g. the TCX-1008 could be only a PPI replacement... and e.g. in the Toshiba HX-32, there is both a TCX-1008 and a TCX-1012, as well as an YM2149, T6950 and Sharp Z80. What is then left to put in that "MSX-Engine"? I guess they're not more than a gate array that combines some functions like subslot logic.
So I think it's good to change this on the Wiki, to not mention them as MSX-ENgines unless they're proven to be such. And I think I just proved that the 1008 and 1012 cannot be MSX-Engines at all.

Agreed?

By sd_snatcher

Prophet (2838)

sd_snatcher's picture

15-09-2018, 21:23

Quote:

I guess they're not more than a gate array that combines some functions like subslot logic.

You're right. But many gate arrays perform functions that were later incorporated in newer versions of the MSX-Engines, do you agree? And what was called "MSX-Engine", nowadays would be called "chipset".

For example, many machines with the S3527 have a gate array that acts like a "complementary engine", to perform memory-mapper, some additional slot decoding etc. Those functions were later integrated into the S1985.

When we read the datasheet of an MSX-Engine, we see that there are many distinct blocks inside.

So it could be correct to think of such chips as very simple MSX-Engines (chipsets), that provably perform just the most simpler blocks like:

- PPI
- slot logic decoding
- DRAM controller
- I/O port decoding
- Printer port
- Kanji ROM select logic
- M1 waitstate generator

By Manuel

Ascended (14680)

Manuel's picture

15-09-2018, 21:27

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qczkRbsmrfmh2PP89 for the example. Which TCX chip does what in this machine?
It would be nice to at least document what functions are implemented by these combination-chips.

By RetroTechie

Paragon (1460)

RetroTechie's picture

18-09-2018, 17:55

Along the lines of sd_snatcher: software tests can determine what functions an MSX has. Then take a list of hardware features needed to implement that, and subtract whatever is implemented in known / discrete IC's found inside.

With Manuel's example, you see discrete VDP, Z80, PSG etc. So those functions are not in those 'engine' IC's. Some TCX... IC's may have unfamiliar markings, but easy to tell it's some sort of ROM (or SRAM?) chip. One of the two 'engine' IC's may be used in another model, and from there deduced what functions that IC has. Whatever functions the MSX has that isn't found so far, must somehow be implemented in the remaining TCX... IC.

For those where that is too coarse: grab actual machine & trace pin connections. Add an IC's pinout to above info, and it'll be obvious what is or isn't included. It's not rocket science, just tedious work.

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