ma-20 clone (msx2 cartridge)

Page 3/9
1 | 2 | | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8

By JohnHassink

Ambassador (5413)

JohnHassink's picture

29-03-2016, 04:53

l_oliveira wrote:

European software? 0% will work. (ha ha ha)

Isn't that a bit of a drawback?

By l_oliveira

Hero (526)

l_oliveira's picture

29-03-2016, 05:08

I don't think so. I know most people (here) only cares about the Japanese games.

Being honest here, most Japanese games work just fine with that. All Konami MEGAROMs, most disk based MSX2 games and even a big chunk of the MSX1 games actually work with it, as well.

The big sales pitch is it being 100% plug'n play solution for a MSX2 upgrade. I am sure the result outweighs the issues greatly.

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

29-03-2016, 05:36

You may be underestimating the library of European MSX software that people actually would like to run.
I have a hard time to tell if you're just kidding or if you're serious. Smile

By l_oliveira

Hero (526)

l_oliveira's picture

29-03-2016, 05:43

If I was a fan of European made games I would be using a Commodore 64, a ZX Spectrum or a CPC...
So no I am not joking at all.

I am talking for myself but I also see all the people I know here who like MSX playing mostly the KONAMIs or Japanese made disc games like stuff from Compile or Falcom.

Like I said I don't care about European games myself but I actually put effort into making a 50Hz compatible ROM for this thing. So I am willing to help anyone who want to use it in Europe. If the games isn't following the MSX standard (by reading the BIOS VDP PORT address and using indirect address writes to the VDP I/O) I cannot help them up.

But then, Konami did follow the standard to the letter, so did Compile and Falcom. Their stuff work fine on this thing.

By JohnHassink

Ambassador (5413)

JohnHassink's picture

29-03-2016, 05:52

Did you hear that sound, echo-ing over the ocean? You just broke my heart. But more power to you, I guess. Excuse me while I go in fetus position and try to deal with what you just said.

By l_oliveira

Hero (526)

l_oliveira's picture

29-03-2016, 06:38

JohnHassink wrote:

Did you hear that sound, echo-ing over the ocean? You just broke my heart. But more power to you, I guess. Excuse me while I go in fetus position and try to deal with what you just said.

That was not my intention. :\ There's room for everyone on this big world and every tastes/cultural preferences deserve respect. Unfortunately, back in the 80s information for MSX programmers outside Japan were scarce and a lot of horrendous programming mistakes were committed. So people willing to play European made MSX2 software are certainly better with a European MSX2 computer than with a MSX1 upgraded with this kit.

On a sidenote, I tried to convince European programmers to follow the proper programming rule once (here) and people said they would never do something like that because "this" or "that" (that lame argument about performance and complexity). I don't think Konami ever had problems with that. (Maybe, they managed to screw-up the slot expander management code on Solid Snake... lol)

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

29-03-2016, 07:00

@ l_oliveira
It was especially the

Quote:

If I was a fan of European made games I would be using a Commodore 64, a ZX Spectrum or a CPC...

that striked me, and strangely, hurt me more that I would have thought. If you ask me, there are a lot of European MSX1/2 games that are a lot better or interesting than most C64 games. I could give a list, but I don't want to bore you. I could try and provide it, if you want, though.
If you're looking for modern examples, check out the MSXdev entries from the past 10 years.
Also, there are a lot of games that are better on MSX than Speccy (such as "Astro Marine Corps"), when they're not just simple ports from the ZX Spectrum.

Quote:

On a sidenote, I tried to convince European programmers to follow the proper programming rule once (here) and people said they would never do something like that because "this" or "that" (that lame argument about performance and complexity).

What is it exactly that you're talking about? What kind of rule is that?

By l_oliveira

Hero (526)

l_oliveira's picture

29-03-2016, 07:11

JohnHassink wrote:

@ l_oliveira
It was especially the

Quote:

If I was a fan of European made games I would be using a Commodore 64, a ZX Spectrum or a CPC...

that striked me, and strangely, hurt me more that I would have thought. If you ask me, there are a lot of European MSX1/2 games that are a lot better or interesting than most C64 games. I could give a list, but I don't want to bore you. I could try and provide it, if you want, though.
If you're looking for modern examples, check out the MSXdev entries from the past 10 years.
Also, there are a lot of games that are better on MSX than Speccy (such as "Astro Marine Corps"), when they're not just simple ports from the ZX Spectrum.

Astro Marine Corps? You serious? The MSX version plays the title screen music all the time. The original version on Spectrum is like 20-30% faster and has at least two more songs.

JohnHassink wrote:

What is it exactly that you're talking about? What kind of rule is that?

Official devs were given full specs and instructions by ASCII back then. They knew the BIOS has the VDP I/O port addresses stored on a set offset (0x06 and 0x07) and that the programs are expected to read that from the BIOS and then use the indirect IN/OUT instruction (with the actual register address value loaded from that offset in the BIOS) to read/write the VDP. That's enough to make a program work with this thing. I talked about this on a dev thread (I think it was the Uridium game discussion thread not sure though it was a while ago) and people said they felt this cart is useless and the loss of CPU cycles is not worth the hassle. Too bad people think that being compatible is a hassle.

Again about being compatible... Look how neat it is when games use the BIOS hook to access the PSG... You can hook that and redirect the music data to a translation routine and then play the music through a SCC chip. If the game accesses the PSG directly you have to hack the game code to get the same effect.

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (6244)

ARTRAG's picture

29-03-2016, 07:46

For msx1 games this is a totally dull discussion, just unplug that stuff and use your msx1.
About Uridium, sorry but the 16k where bios is have to be replaced by the game code.
Swapping the bios in and out all the time is a terrible overhead.

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

29-03-2016, 07:27

l_oliveira wrote:

Astro Marine Corps? You serious? The MSX version plays the title screen music all the time. The original version on Spectrum is like 20-30% faster and has at least two more songs.

Okay, bad example.
I still don't feel like typing a list of good European MSX1/2 games, as it's in the morning here and I'm starting to fall asleep. If not anyone else does it in the meantime, I'll get back to you on that. Smile
But you seem to ignore the MSXdev games I mentioned...

Regarding your technical explanation - I'm not going to lie and just tell you that it boggles my mind (which is a polite way of saying, I still don't understand what you're talking about).

Page 3/9
1 | 2 | | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8