Philips Music Module MSX Audio upgrade - V1.3

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By igal

Master (216)

igal's picture

17-10-2012, 17:03

sd_snatcher wrote:

@igal
Disconnect? Sorry, I don't know what you're talking about. The MSX-Audio BIOS isn't able to disconnect the YM2413 chip from the computer.

@Meits, @mars2000you
Hey, are you talking about facts or rumors? So you tried to use Moonblaster stereo and it's not working with the MSX-Audio BIOS v1.3? Can you detail the steps to reproduce the bug?

Sorry, I was wrong.
I read on a post that was off the Msx-Music is integrated MSX2 + and turbo R for any compatibility issues.
So I mistakenly thought that the audio-Msx Bios 1.3 automatically removed Fm-Pac.
I did a test with demos and MoonBaster Fm-Pac is not disabled or the Midi-Pak elsewhere.

I wanted to know if as does the Bios 1.3 with music Msx-compatible Music by returning the Moonsound if it could also refer melodies Msx-Audio to Moonsound?

I understand your explanation about the dangers of using two different OPL with the same address, but the result is so much better, I would try the same thing with the melodies Msx-Audio

By sd_snatcher

Prophet (3471)

sd_snatcher's picture

19-10-2012, 04:09

I'm again not quite sure I understood your question, but here's my best guess:

If you're asking if the MSX-Audio BIOS will output the songs on Moonsound, the answer is yes. But:

1) The game *must* use the MSX-Audio BIOS to write on the OPL chip. Unfortunately, all Compile games only use the BIOS to detect the MSX-Audio then they will do direct I/O.

2) Are you really going to risk your MSX-Audio and Moonsound by setting both to the same I/O port? Isn't it best to ask some hardware guy to build the MSX-Audio BIOS expansion inside your Moonsound?

By SkyeWelse

Champion (471)

SkyeWelse's picture

19-10-2012, 05:16

Hi Everyone,

I've got a question related to the Phllips Music Modules with the Expansion running v.1.3 Bios. I recently decided to purchase this same unit from Colemu since I wanted to learn more about MSX Audio and MSX music tracking / live play and was specifically seeking out a 1.3 updated version since I'm still an MSX hardware beginner and I had read that this had better compatibility with Turbo R and pretty much corrected any need for running a POKE command for some of the Compile games to recognize the MSX Audio Bios.

I just recently received this and decided to give it a shot with Golvellius 2. I have the Phillips Music Module in Slot 1 when I boot the game. I'm running this on a Turbo R GT. Should I be able to hear the new MSX-Audio version right away or is there something I should be doing to turn on the MSX-Audio. I've read that I can use a call in MSX Basic for either CALL AUDIO or CALL MUSIC, but if this is something that needs to be done each time to use MSX-Audio for a game, what is the best recommended procedure for how to use this or at least start using it. So far I can hear music coming from the two RCA cinch cables coming from the Module to my television, and while the sound/music sounds clearer and maybe a tad bit louder than it does when coming directly from the Turbo R GT itself, it is still playing the same music that I would be hearing from the game regardless if I had the Music Module plugged in or not. I've only tried the first disk, the demo disk of Golvellius 2 so far.

I also tried using CALL MUSICBOX too to see if I could run the original software, but nothing happened. I'm guessing my version may not have the original ROM anymore perhaps if this is the proper way to call the program from MSX Basic.

I'd also like to start learning how can I start using any of the built in programs that would have come with the MSX-Audio BIOS, but I'm not sure how to access them or the extra sample ram to start creating music. I do not seem to have a 10 pin din music keyboard, but I do have a basic MIDI keyboard and cable.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks for your time!

-Thomas

By popolon33

Expert (85)

popolon33's picture

19-10-2012, 07:30

if you want to create MSX-Audio musics, you need to learn the MSX-Audio basic instructions

By Meits

Scribe (6446)

Meits's picture

19-10-2012, 10:24

If call musicbox does not work, don't worry, you're not missing a thing. But if you really want to check out how this silly rom looks, sounds, works, it is possible to put load the rom file in a flash rom scc (tried that with the rom i got with openMSX). Besides one funny thing of the music box rom (realtime recording through the mic and outputing it deformed/with echo) you don't miss a thing. Most people removed the rom just to be rid of the damn thing Wink

If you want to create music on your music module, just try moonblaster. The added bios won't change a bit on how you can make music with it, unless you want to write music in mml (which is a pain, really, so you don't want that)...

If you are in moonblaster and have your basic midi keyboard connected to the midi in din and press F4 (to get in the sound menu), choose MSX Audio. Left you'll have the selected instruments, right you have the instruments to select. Go right by pressing space, run through the instrument pages by using ctrl+left/right. Select the input keyboard (MSX, NMS1160, MIDI) with the F3 button. MSX is the letter keys on your GT keyboard, 1160 is the Philips music keyboard (which isn't that much) and MIDI is indeed MIDI keyboard. Here you can play around with your MIDI keyboard if you wish.

256KB sampleram doesn't have much support. You could run Unknown Reality (demo) which uses it. Furthermore I don't know of any software that does. The program NOP used to make those samples is sampbox macro. Though, this program uses your computer's ram as far as I can remember.
Working with samples on your MSX Audio is a pain since it is ADPCM. As soon as you alter the start address of the sample, you actually destroy the sample because the starting values for volume are in the first few bits of the sample. You cut that off to find the right starting point of your sample, you have no control on the volume... It just changes... That way it's quite a bit of a hell to make loopable/'paste after the other' samples for sampbox. Editing the samples on your PC using cooledit or soundforge could be helpfull then. I bet NOP did that as well for unknown reality.

Having msx audio sound from your game I never tried. Might try it one day as some kind of proof that it works, but somehow I think the fm pac makes the sound richer. MSX Audio is rather flat. Got no clue that when if you use the poke and hear the music module, the msx music is switched off (someone who did this may confirm), but you could as well have heard msx music AND msx audio through your TV... By default the music module has a low volume output, so louder sounds weird to me. If MSX music is not being switched off by this poke, you probably still hear the MSX music along with the music module (but correct me if I'm wrong). Or maybe (if MSX music is switched off) the volume gets louder because you use the rca cable, but the music also goes through your rgb cable. They might amplify each other.

I hope this post is somewhat readable Tongue

By Colemu

Hero (535)

Colemu's picture

19-10-2012, 20:39

SkyeWelse wrote:

Hi Everyone,

I've got a question related to the Phllips Music Modules with the Expansion running v.1.3 Bios. I recently decided to purchase this same unit from Colemu since I wanted to learn more about MSX Audio and MSX music tracking / live play and was specifically seeking out a 1.3 updated version since I'm still an MSX hardware beginner and I had read that this had better compatibility with Turbo R and pretty much corrected any need for running a POKE command for some of the Compile games to recognize the MSX Audio Bios.

I just recently received this and decided to give it a shot with Golvellius 2. I have the Phillips Music Module in Slot 1 when I boot the game. I'm running this on a Turbo R GT. Should I be able to hear the new MSX-Audio version right away or is there something I should be doing to turn on the MSX-Audio. I've read that I can use a call in MSX Basic for either CALL AUDIO or CALL MUSIC, but if this is something that needs to be done each time to use MSX-Audio for a game, what is the best recommended procedure for how to use this or at least start using it. So far I can hear music coming from the two RCA cinch cables coming from the Module to my television, and while the sound/music sounds clearer and maybe a tad bit louder than it does when coming directly from the Turbo R GT itself, it is still playing the same music that I would be hearing from the game regardless if I had the Music Module plugged in or not. I've only tried the first disk, the demo disk of Golvellius 2 so far.

I also tried using CALL MUSICBOX too to see if I could run the original software, but nothing happened. I'm guessing my version may not have the original ROM anymore perhaps if this is the proper way to call the program from MSX Basic.

I'd also like to start learning how can I start using any of the built in programs that would have come with the MSX-Audio BIOS, but I'm not sure how to access them or the extra sample ram to start creating music. I do not seem to have a 10 pin din music keyboard, but I do have a basic MIDI keyboard and cable.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks for your time!

-Thomas

Hi Thomas,

I was playing Golvellius 2 with this unit no problem in either slot 1 or slot 2. My MSX does not have FM music built in however. I believe you need to use the call commands to override your own machine as the primary FM source.
One of the best ways to test the unit (I found) was to use the HD version of Fire Hawk. You can select either MSX Music or MSX Audio by changing the parameter on execution. The MSX Audio is fantastic on this game! :-)

I believe the call commands are: call music, call audio
Smile

BTW: the original Phillips software is not included in V1.3 bios
however, I have the annoying original ROM software if you need it. Just pop it in your MegaFlashRom Wink

By Colemu

Hero (535)

Colemu's picture

19-10-2012, 23:27

Can any of you guys help Thomas out using MSX Audio compatible games?

I have no experience using the Philips Music Module with V1.3 on a MSX Turbo-R machine.

On my MSX the unit tended to default to MSX Audio on games that were compatible with it. In Thomas' experience they have been defaulting to his intenal MSX Music FM.

Using the Call Audio command isn't helping as it defaults back to MSX Music on machine reset.

Cheers guys

By SkyeWelse

Champion (471)

SkyeWelse's picture

20-10-2012, 00:49

Wow, thanks Melts and Colemu.

I think I will give Moonblaster a shot then! Sounds like a perfect way to start and I'm happy to learn that it might support my MIDI keyboard. : )

And Colemu, that makes sense, I guess the Module defaults to MSX-Audio whenever MSX-Music is not present and since I have FM-Sound built in, I would need to figure out a method of calling an override (CALL AUDIO, I'm guessing) in MSX Basic first, and then somehow get the MSX-Audio supported game to start.

Yep, I'm all up for any ideas or suggestions for how I'd be able to accomplish that for a sector based game like Golvellius 2 that seems to want to only autostart. The only thoughts I have would be to have the Music Module in Slot 2 (Can it be even used in Slot 2?) and have my SD / MMC Interface cart in Slot 1 (I think it had to be in Slot 1 to work correctly for disk based games), somehow get the MSX to not boot into Dos from the Interface... Hmm.. If I can, and into MSX Basic. Then run the Call Audio function, Call System with a MSX Dos disk in FDD, boot into Dos... Get my Interface to read the SD drive, and maybe run a program like RUN IT to play Golvellius 2. lol That all sounds quite complicated though. I do also have a NoWind Interface which might be easier since I should be able to run it straight from MSX DOS to launch a DSK image.... maybe.

Or, hmm, would converting the Golvellius 2 DSK image into a Rom work and then flash my MegaFlashRom with it? But then... How would I start the MegaFlash rom without resetting the MSX if I am inside of MSX Basic...

Gah, Curse you GT you are supposed to be the ultimate MSX Gaming Machine! But you are too powerful and complete for your own good! I see another type of MSX computer in my future...

Which reminds me, I still want to try out some CAS games sometime. Can the Microphone Line In perhaps be used to play CAS games from an audio source and another program through the Phillips Music Module? Then I could try out that nifty MSX Plug software on the iPhone... maybe.

I think I will try the Musicbox program out. I've heard it's quite bad, so I'm looking forward to it. : )

-Thomas

By sd_snatcher

Prophet (3471)

sd_snatcher's picture

20-10-2012, 01:30

Small tip from the FAQ inside the always ignored README.TXT file:

Q: On MSX Turbo-R machines, the internal MSX-Music is being detected instead of
the MSX-Audio BIOS, both by games and by the CALL MUSIC command. What can I
do?
A: This happens because those machines had a design decision that caused this:
They placed the MSX-Music BIOS on slot 0-3 to force it to be detected before
any other external MSX-Music, like the FM-PAC. Otherwise when using the R800
CPU, the sound would become distorted if an FM-PAC was connected to the MSX.
Other machines with native internal MSX-Music don't have this problem, like
all Sony MSX2+, all Panasonic MSX2+, and all Sanyo MSX2+ models.
To work-around it, use the following procedures:
- For MSX-BASIC, just type CALL AUDIO before running any BASIC musics or
BASIC software. This will cause the MSX-Audio BIOS to be activated, and it
will automatically disable any MSX-Music BASIC extensions present on the
machine (only until the next reboot, off course Smile
- For games and any other binary software (*.ROM, *.BIN, *.COM), before
running the said game/software you'll need to run my other tool, OPLLOFF,
that will try to disable the internal MSX-Music BIOS on your machine.

By Meits

Scribe (6446)

Meits's picture

20-10-2012, 03:17

I did not read the faq cuz i don't have, nor need it. That's why I asked for confirmation.

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