Wavy23 revisions

By rderooy

Hero (662)

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22-01-2020, 09:10

Looking through old MSX Magazine issues, I notice a few inconsistencies regarding the Wavy23.

On the Wiki we say there was the PHC-23J(GR) and PHC-23J(B) and that the machine came out in 1985, which is rather early.

But the earliest reference I find in MSX Magazine is in the 1987-02 issue on page 150 in a news article, and this is not a 23J machine, but a PHC-23 (no mention of GR).

In issue 1987-04 on page 9 there is an ad for the "PHC-23(GR)", another ad in the 1987-05 issue again says "PHC-23(GR)"

After this Sanyo did not run any ads until the 1987-10 issue, and then it is suddenly the PHC-23J(GR). And the same for the 1987-11 issue.

However in the 1987-12 issue we have instead an ad for the PHC-23J(B).

So it seems the wiki is wrong on a few points, first there are 3 revisions, and second the machine did not come out in 1985, but in 1987. But does anyone understand what is the difference between the 23 and the 23J revision?

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By rderooy

Hero (662)

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22-01-2020, 09:33

Some images of the original PHC-23 revision:
https://vintagecpu.wordpress.com/sanyo-wavy-23-msx-2/

By rderooy

Hero (662)

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22-01-2020, 10:38

Examining images of the PHC-23 and PHC-23J more closely, I noticed that the location of Japanese symbols on the keyboard don't match. The difference seems to be that the 23J has a standard "JIS" keyboard, and the 23 does not. Also because they bring up this JIS keyboard in the 23J ads.

By rderooy

Hero (662)

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22-01-2020, 10:42

Since the first reference to the PHC-23 is in the 1987-02 issue, which actually was published in January of 1987 (due to the way the Japanese magazines are pre-dated by a month), this could be either an early 1987 or a late 1986 machine.

By rderooy

Hero (662)

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22-01-2020, 10:56

This also means the PHC-23 was not the first MSX2 from Sanyo, that would be the Wavy25 (MPC-25F/FD), which were first advertised in the 1985-12 issue of MSX Magazine. And the dates for the Russian SANYO machines makes no sense in this context either, as they are unlikely to pre-date the Japanese models.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5541)

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22-01-2020, 11:40

Then it's probably 1987 for both Russian computers, as they were used in network.

By gdx

Prophet (3217)

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22-01-2020, 14:00

There is an ad ASCII in MSX Magazine 1987-03 on page 63 with the PHC-23(GR). So I think the PHC-23 (GR) has been released in early 1987 (perhaps late 1986) and the PHC-23J (GR) and PHC-23J (B) in mid-1987 with a JIS layout keyboard.

Edit: This page below says 1986 for the PHC-23 (GR) so it's probably late 1986.
http://bubrhythm.net/Retorhythm/wavy23.html

Edit2: Yes, J is for JIS Layout. You can compare them. There are different.
PHC-23 keyboard:

PHC-23J keyboard:

By sdsnatcher73

Paladin (752)

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22-01-2020, 20:44

Oddly the MPC-2/Wavy 2, the MSX1 in similar design already seemed to have a JIS keyboard. I think Sanyo made the change in the keyboard after feedback of the Japanese market.

By rderooy

Hero (662)

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22-01-2020, 22:17

For the Wavy2 in the Wiki it is stated 1985. The earliest references I found are in the 1986-01 issue of MSX Magazine, so technically that is indeed 1985 since that issue came out in December 1985.

So yes it's weird that a machine that pre-dates the Wavy23 had a JIS keyboard, yet the PHC-23 did not.

By sdsnatcher73

Paladin (752)

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23-01-2020, 14:43

I think the designers made an error in judgement with the PHC-23 somehow, maybe (probably) it was a management call. They corrected it with the PHC-35J and then never made that mistake again in following machines like the PHC-35J and PHC-70FD(2). It is even interesting to see the J made it onto the PHC-35J, which might have well been called PHC-35 but that might have raised questions and hurt sales (I can imagine a sales person saying: “no no it really has a JIS keyboard even without the J”).

By rderooy

Hero (662)

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23-01-2020, 15:37

Earliest references for the PHC-23(GR) is from 1987-02 issue of MSX Magazine
Earliest references for the PHC-23J(GR) is from 1987-10 issue of MSX Magazine
Earliest references for the PHC-23J(B) is from 1987-12 issue of MSX Magazine

So it seems the PHC-23(GR) was on the market for just 8 months before it got replaced, but the PHC-23J(GR) had just 2 months before the PHC-23J(B) came out. So it surprises me that the PHC-23J(GR) with such a short run, still shows up that often.
Now obviously the stores would not immediately have had the latest machines in stock, so they would have sold the old machine for some months afterwards, but still...