Will extra RAM increase frame rate?

Page 2/2
1 |

By Manuel

Ascended (14470)

Manuel's picture

09-08-2018, 22:20

The short answer: NO.

By sd_snatcher

Prophet (2779)

sd_snatcher's picture

10-08-2018, 01:35

Grauw wrote:

However a turbofix version of the game would be best, since it can make sure the PSG pitch is correct. Though I don’t think FRS’s turbo fix for MG2 does that, it seems primarily aimed at the turboR.

My turbofixes are aimed at any turbo machines that keep the correct PSG frequency. It doesn't automatically enable the turbo on the Panasonic2+ machines because they sadly get the PSG out of tune when their turbo is enabled, and IMHO that's something to be fixed in software and not in hardware. Trying to workaround it in software can cause even more problems.

But I have, for example, a Sanyo MSX2+ where I installed a turbo kit and it maintains the correct PSG pitch. I can play the turbofixed games on it without worries.

If a user want, he can enable the Panasonic2+ turbo before running the ROM. But he will have to listen to the PSG being played out of tone.

By radicalfaith360

Supporter (15)

radicalfaith360's picture

10-08-2018, 03:47

Grauw wrote:
JohnHassink wrote:

The Playstation re-release was reprogrammed from scratch. That's why some things (such as crawling in airducts) go a lot smoother and how the game displays bigger, prettier letters. Not to mention revamping the items/weapons menu system by assigning them to the 'shoulder' (?) buttons, in MGS style.
So it's not the actual same code; not even emulation. As another example, the "music replayer" simply constitutes playing samples of the music, recorded from the game.

Really! It seems like it would’ve been a lot less effort to just emulate it with a higher CPU and VDP speed, and patch the ROM with some emulator hooks for the buttons and text display.

JohnHassink wrote:

If and when the original game lags, I think the bottleneck is at the (video-)processor(s) and not the amount of (video-)RAM in your machine, which basically concerns storage size and not display speed.

It’s primarily the CPU. When I used to play it on my MSX2 with 7 MHz circuit, whenever I would turn on the 7 MHz the game would run about twice as fast (and the sound would crap out, of course Wink).

As for Panasonic’s MSX2+ turbo mode, it seems like it would give a nice speed boost, but it needs to be enabled before the cartridge boots. On turboR you can use any cartridge with Nextor for that by keeping the 2 key pressed while booting, but unfortunately that doesn’t seem to work for the Panasonic MSX2+’es (konamiman: feature request!). But I think the Carnivore 2 has such a function in its boot menu.

Also if you can somehow bypass Metal Gear 2 from booting (please don’t insert while the computer is on though!), you can enable turbo mode from Basic by entering OUT 64,8:OUT 65,0, and then maybe boot the cartridge from Basic (maybe through a soft reset DEFUSR=0:U=USR(0), or some other means).

However a turbofix version of the game would be best, since it can make sure the PSG pitch is correct. Though I don’t think FRS’s turbo fix for MG2 does that, it seems primarily aimed at the turboR.

Do you have any idea how to bypass the game booting and then boot it from BASIC after I've enabled Turbo Mode?

By Grauw

Enlighted (7321)

Grauw's picture

10-08-2018, 12:32

If you have a slot expander you can switch the game’s slot off while the computer boots. Although actually now that I think of it, that won’t do much good for MG2 since it doesn’t like running in a subslot. If your MG2 has an SCC switch on it then you can turn it off during boot as well. If it doesn’t, please don’t install one Wink.

Or if you have a flash cartridge, I think it should be possible to put a little ROM on it which prevents the game from booting. (But then again you might just as well flash the game on the cartridge, or something which enables the turbo.)

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1223)

Kai Magazine's picture

10-08-2018, 14:28

I played a disk version (conversion by Martos) of metal gear 2 back in the early 90's.
This version was for msx2 with 256k and 512k, meaning with 256k the game was loading data from the disk constantly while you played, causing slow downs and pauses (I first played the game on a sony f700 with 256k of ram)
But if your computer had 512k or more, the game was loaded entirely to the ram and the slow downs disappeared.
I still have that disk somewhere.
This would be an example where lack of ram causes slowdowns on msx, but there are others.
Heroes of the lance on disk had the same issue, and many others.
Also, some Micro Cabin games for msx2 use the extra memory of the turbo r as a cache so it doesn't have to reload the same things over and over, thus speeding up the gameplay, if I remember correctly.

By sd_snatcher

Prophet (2779)

sd_snatcher's picture

10-08-2018, 14:45

sd_snatcher wrote:

and IMHO that's something to be fixed in software and not in hardware. Trying to workaround it in software can cause even more problems.

Errata: This is something that should be fixed in hardware and not in software.

By Manuel

Ascended (14470)

Manuel's picture

10-08-2018, 16:58

Kai, OP was talking about frame rate. Slowdowns due to hacky cracks are a bit off topic I think Smile

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1223)

Kai Magazine's picture

10-08-2018, 17:34

Meits wrote:

The only way I know is to play a turbo fix patched rom file on a flash cartridge in a turbo R machine. Having the PSG pitched up a bit (stable on Panasonic 2+ machines but all over the place on a homebrew upgraded 7MHz MSX2) is not really pleasant for the ears.
I'd like to hear from the coders if there's actually a way to make things lag due to little ram. I never heard of it.

Manuel, I was answering this post.
Where some people answered no, I answered yes.
I don't see the offtopic.
But perhaps I should have used a quote as some other people did. My bad.
Also, I am talking about a version of metal gear 2 which suffers slow downs due to lack of memory.

By Grauw

Enlighted (7321)

Grauw's picture

10-08-2018, 18:11

I think some Sunrise published games had a disk cache that benefited from extra RAM, reducing loading times if you would re-enter an area you’d been before. Pumpkin Adventure 3 comes to mind?

By Manuel

Ascended (14470)

Manuel's picture

10-08-2018, 19:09

That's the underlying F-kernel making that possible.

Page 2/2
1 |
My MSX profile