New Wiki material: software/games

Page 4/7
1 | 2 | 3 | | 5 | 6 | 7

By gdx

Prophet (2910)

gdx's picture

07-03-2018, 00:41

mars2000you wrote:

To make what you suggest, the content of the unique page should be dispersed on many different pages (and it should even worse with the diskmagazines including many small MSX-BASIC programs!), without a global overview of the unique product.

No, why should we do that? The categories are just tags to indicate the genre and makes lists.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5486)

mars2000you's picture

07-03-2018, 00:43

gdx wrote:
mars2000you wrote:

To make what you suggest, the content of the unique page should be dispersed on many different pages (and it should even worse with the diskmagazines including many small MSX-BASIC programs!), without a global overview of the unique product.

No, why should we do that? The categories are just tags to makes lists.

In these cases, the tags should be a real source of confusion. It's not the same as the One Chip MSX for example (MSX2 or MSX2+ according the upgrade).

I've citated the Dragon Disk 01, but there are more difficult examples. Many diskmagazines are for MSX2, but if you decide to run directly some included software, it's for MSX1. You will add the tag MSX1 and the user could think that it concerns the diskmagazine, while this tag is actually correct for a part of the software, when this software is launched outside the menu/interface of the diskmagazine. Do you see the problem? No, several tags for diskmagazines (and demodisks with several demos) is a very bad idea!

By gdx

Prophet (2910)

gdx's picture

07-03-2018, 01:02

The tags are grouped together. If there are 3 tags: [MSX2 software] [MSX2+ software] [OCM software], we understand easily that the software has specific functions for these three generations. Furthermore it must be indicated on the page. I do not understand what problem it causes you. It's already like on the boxes of MSX software.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5486)

mars2000you's picture

07-03-2018, 01:04

You don't understand that the MSX generation of a software can be different from the MSX generation of the menu/interface of a diskmagazine. That's the big problem!

When you have a diskmagazine (or a demodisk), you will first run it 'normally' ... so it means that the tag for the interface will prevail ... no problem for the software corresponding to a lower generation (generally), only problems for the software reserved for the higher generations.

What now if you indicate several tags and that the user uses the interface instead of running a specifc software? He sees MSX1 tag and he will try to run the full diskmagazine on MSX1. It will fail and he will be angry about the Wiki.

By gdx

Prophet (2910)

gdx's picture

07-03-2018, 01:03

This is not a problem at all.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5486)

mars2000you's picture

07-03-2018, 01:10

The only good approach is to indicate only one tag, the one corresponding to the interface AND to make a list with the MSX generation for each software when launched outside the interface (or even with the interface when it concerns MSX2+ or MSX Turbo R while the interface is MSX2).

And to be clearer: no MSX1 software, MSX2 software, etc... but only MSX1, MSX2, MSX2+, MSX Turbo R as tags!

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5486)

mars2000you's picture

07-03-2018, 01:23

mars2000you wrote:

The only good approach is to indicate only one tag, the one corresponding to the interface AND to make a list with the MSX generation for each software when launched outside the interface (or even with the interface when it concerns MSX2+ or MSX Turbo R while the interface is MSX2).

And to be clearer: no MSX1 software, MSX2 software, etc... but only MSX1, MSX2, MSX2+, MSX Turbo R as tags!

Check this page that I've enhanced: https://www.msx.org/wiki/Dragon_Disk_01

By ren

Paragon (1215)

ren's picture

07-03-2018, 10:12

So.

Category MSX2 is only for software(?) (there's only scene productions in there ATM I believe).
It's a bit of ambiguous ((too) generic) name/label. We do have e.g. Category:MSX2 Computers.
In this case Category:MSX2 Scene Software seems more appropriate (which could be a subcat of (the non-existing) MSX2 Software).

The other hardware is e.g. in Category:Data Recorders (which could be a subcat of Category:Peripherals AFAIC).
(Note: mars2you is allergic to subcategories.. Wink)

I see most of the time categories being capitalized, Category:Scene diskmagazines is not (diskmagazines should have a space btw: 'disk magazines')
Category:SceneSoftware should have a space as well.

But most of that stuff is (a bit) nitpicky, and has been around for a while now. Just pointing to some (what seems to be) (IMO) inconsistencies / evaluation points perhaps.

-edit: @m2you: get some sleep.. ;-)

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5486)

mars2000you's picture

07-03-2018, 10:35

if you add pages about commercial games, then you can also use the MSX1, MSX2, MSX2+ and MSX Turbo R tags.

For the hardware, it's has been discussed in the past. Except for the computers, most hardware is not linked to a specific MSX generation. There are not MSX1 joysticks and MSX2 joysticks for example. If a specific hardware could only be used with a computer of a specific MSX generation, then indeed one of the 4 mentioned tags could be used, but I guess it will happen very rarely.

Besides, the precisions are normally included in the description of the device, the tag should be an excessive adding (for example, it is specified which MSX1 computers can use the Casio KB-7 extension; adding the MSX1 tag should even be a source of confusion, as some people could think without reading the description that it's for all MSX1 computers).

You're right, my great principle is to avoid tags and sub-tags that complicate the using of the Wiki by the end-user. Why do you think the main page has been conceived as it is conceived (and several times enhanced, mainly by gdx)?

And for the scene related tags, I need to repeat that it's the choice of scene developers and I respect it. For instance, 'diskmagazine' in one word has been used so many times in the Dutch MSX scene that it's normal to write it without space. It has a 'mythic' meaning.

By ren

Paragon (1215)

ren's picture

07-03-2018, 11:14

Regarding diskmagazine: fair enough & no biggie.

Regarding end users: you should cater for both novice & power users (in a wiki like this).

Sometimes it seems you're not exactly addressing what I'm pointing at. I didn't get your point earlier regarding the publications on the Konami page/cat, I was pointing to the list of 'Pages in category "Konami"' on the bottom of the page.

You're an advocate of putting as much info as possible on a single page (so an user doesn't have to do extra clicking right?)
You do realize when an user uses the TOC (which is needed on a big page), he's clicking anyway?

I believe the only valid consideration is: "what's the info the user is most likely interesting in / looking for when he visits this page?"

Does an user want to see a listing of all published Konami games? All hardware? All publications?
Or does he want to see a nice overview/summary? And then click on something when he (or she alright Wink) has further interest?

Does an user understand what he's looking at when he sees the 'Pages in category "Konami"' at the bottom?
I see hardware pages there, mostly Software Club pages, and a (loose) Konami game protections page.

The thing is, those Software Club pages could go in (sub)category Konami Publications, those hw pages in Konami Hardware. That's what you want right? More user friendliness? What I'm suggesting provides that (or am I mistaken?), it gives the user a more clear overview of stuff, as that mixed (and somewhat unrelated) category pages list thins out, and a couple of subcategories are added (which have their own listing of ((more) related) pages).

I'm certainly not having the intention, nor willing to go on a 'war' here or go into endless debate. I do am curious what the opinions are of other prominent wiki editors like rderooy & gdx (& other long time residents that care Wink)

(You have done an insane amount of wiki editing mars recently, so that's commendable in any case Wink)

Page 4/7
1 | 2 | 3 | | 5 | 6 | 7