Wiki editing discussion

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By mars2000you

Enlighted (5467)

mars2000you's picture

23-07-2018, 13:27

gdx wrote:

Another thing, I'm looking for information about Disc Communication Area. (Disk-ROM v1.xx and V2.00)

Maybe you should answer to NYYRIKKI: https://www.msx.org/forum/msx-talk/development/where-is-info...

These infos were available on the mentioned page before your changes on 19 July 2018 (it can be checked in the History)

Besides, I can read this in the Discussion for this page:

"About the diskvariable part: Everthing under F1C9 has a dynamic location and is totally depanded on the diskdriver used and the number of drives connected. If you want to describe DPB you better use the pointers to the DPBs (F355,F357 etc) which are standard.

But good work to provide the wiki.

Arjen Zeilemaker"

So, it seems that this part is different according the used diskdriver and the number of drives connected. Maybe a good reason to create a separate Wiki page, but NYYRIKKI seems to think the contrary...

By gdx

Prophet (2655)

gdx's picture

23-07-2018, 16:12

"mars2000you" wrote:

These infos were available on the mentioned page before your changes on 19 July 2018 (it can be checked in the History)

I know. I removed it because I working on it to separate and to modifiy the layout.
I want separate it because a message indicates that the page is too long. In addition Disc Communication Area of Disk-ROM v1.xx is quite different than the Area of Disk-ROM v2.xx. I think we need create one page for each.

The problem is that the information already present are not complete and when I compare it with other documentations (even more incomplete), I find a lot of differences.

The pages are not created yet because all this takes me more time than I imagined. I miss information.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5467)

mars2000you's picture

03-08-2018, 18:35

@Rderooy.: Note about the Konami Game Master 2 page: I advise to put the games in alphabetical order (and eventually separate MSX1 games and MSX2 games) - See this page as example: http://www.msxblue.com/manual/gamemaster2.htm - Reason: When you search infos about a Konami game, you generally make it with the title of the game, not the RC number.

The games to be insertded in slot 1 are not the same for GM1 and GM2 (Vampire Killer, Ganbare Goemon, Hinotori (Firebird) are for GM1!) - for GM2, it must be Contra / Gryzor and Hai no Majutsushi / Mahjong 2 and the reason is not what you explain, but the fact that the SRAM works slighly differently for these games.

Example in case of an eventual Konami Game Master 1 page: see http://www.msxblue.com/manual/gamemaster1.htm

By rderooy

Champion (508)

rderooy's picture

03-08-2018, 18:46

@mars2000you

Thanks for the pointer on the fact that the list of games which need reverse order is different for GM2. Thought is was basically the same as GM1.

As to the sort order, I'm fine with using search in a page to find what I'm looking for. I use CTRL-F all the time... I did it in RC order because I was initially using the original GM1 documentation as a basis, and that is in RC order.

As to splitting it in MSX1 and MSX2 games, I don't see any advantage.

I did plan on a GM1 page also, but thought it was best to start with the GM2 as it mostly encompasses the GM1, so I can mostly just copy the table and delete some entries instead of having to figure out which I was missing.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5467)

mars2000you's picture

03-08-2018, 19:12

Ok, CTRL+F (or the corresponding menu with the mouse) is a good and very useful tool! Wink

By Eugeny_Brychkov

Paragon (1067)

Eugeny_Brychkov's picture

12-08-2018, 16:51

I see system hooks wiki page was rebuilt. Here's the issue

FD9Fh H.TIMI Call: Called by the KEYINT interrupt routine (Main-ROM at 0038h) just after reading the current status register of the VDP (usually register 0).
Usage: The call to this hook is done just after the reading of the status register 0 of the VDP (or the status register specified by the control register 15 on MSX2 and newer).
Note: The register A contains the value read when this Hook is called in order to know if it is the interruption at the end of display (VBI) or not.

This hook is actually only called if source of the interrupt is VDP, that's why there's FD9A and FD9F. FD9A is called every time whatever causes the interrupt, and FD9F only if interrupt is caused by the VDP.

By Grauw

Enlighted (7961)

Grauw's picture

12-08-2018, 17:19

Worth noting register A should be preserved in H.TIMI, otherwise STATFL will not be set correctly.

By gdx

Prophet (2655)

gdx's picture

12-08-2018, 17:19

I just edit it. Is it okay now?

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5251)

NYYRIKKI's picture

13-08-2018, 12:28

mars2000you wrote:

Maybe a good reason to create a separate Wiki page, but NYYRIKKI seems to think the contrary...

I don't have big problems no matter how you split the information because just like you I already remember >90% of this stuff close enough to find the details, but I think that it is very important also to make the information reachable to people with less experience.

My problem is that let's say that there comes a ZX-Spectrum expert, who wants to get familiar with MSX programming as well... Maybe he wants to use debugger to see what kind of routines people have used in order to get hang of the idea. Now he does see that there are lots of calls to very high address #F37D that he wants to check out.

My question is how we can structure the Wiki so that he will easily find his way first to page called "Disc Communication Area" and from there to BDOS functions and so on? (Maybe adding one more category on the middle where he can find memory layout subjects?)

gdx wrote:

I know. I removed it because I working on it to separate and to modifiy the layout.
...
The problem is that the information already present are not complete and when I compare it with other documentations (even more incomplete), I find a lot of differences.

I think this is extremely bad way to handle Wiki editing... and I mean especially that you delete all the information that other people have collected and translated, because some day you want to replace it with your own version. I think the whole idea of the Wiki is that if the information is incomplete we add more information there to make it better. Yes, revisiting the subject at some point is very good and wellcome idea and even splitting is fine, but I must say I was pretty disappointed when I tried to find information about variable that had been removed. Replacing with better version is ok, removing fact data completely because "I don't like how it looks" is not.

Quote:

Area of Disk-ROM v1.xx is quite different than the Area of Disk-ROM v2.xx.

I think this is maybe close to exaggerated statement. Yes, there are many differences and these should be somehow managed indeed, but I would say all of the most important stuff is still on the same place and updated for compatibility reasons. Few variables have changed here and there and the hooks work a bit differently, but these details are not that very relevant. Making own definition for v2.xx sounds quite a big task... I'm just wondering that maybe these differences could be added as remarks(?)... There is anyway danger that it makes the end result too much harder to read.

By Timmy

Expert (85)

Timmy's picture

13-08-2018, 14:38

NYYRIKKI wrote:
mars2000you wrote:

Maybe a good reason to create a separate Wiki page, but NYYRIKKI seems to think the contrary...

I don't have big problems no matter how you split the information because just like you I already remember >90% of this stuff close enough to find the details, but I think that it is very important also to make the information reachable to people with less experience.

My problem is that let's say that there comes a ZX-Spectrum expert, who wants to get familiar with MSX programming as well... Maybe he wants to use debugger to see what kind of routines people have used in order to get hang of the idea. Now he does see that there are lots of calls to very high address #F37D that he wants to check out.

Hi, as someone who is a Spectrum expert and is still learning the MSX, I have say that there really is no need to talk about hypothetical cases. I have never used this Wiki to learn things, I can't find anything there. The Wiki is a complete mess for me, and there will be lots of overhaul before I want to use the wiki for anything. I'd say the Wiki must be useful for the very experienced MSX people instead.

Luckily there are other sites where I can visit to learn stuff. For example, other people's source code, Grauw's site, and books come to mind. (Surprisingly there are very few MSX books written in English.)

Quote:

My question is how we can structure the Wiki so that he will easily find his way first to page called "Disc Communication Area" and from there to BDOS functions and so on? (Maybe adding one more category on the middle where he can find memory layout subjects?)

Perhaps a stupid question, but how would I have known that in order to find "#F37D", I have to go to "Disc Communication Area" first? That sound even more complicated to me. Also, "BDOS" is also new to me. https://www.msx.org/wiki/BDOS is completely empty too.

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