Wiki editing discussion

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By gdx

Prophet (2213)

gdx's picture

13-08-2018, 15:23

NYYRIKKI,

You are wrong. I have not replaced the old version with my version. I separated parts to add more information.
I also changed the layout because listing of routines in machine are not a good method to describe the standard. The routines are different from one MSX to another and from one version to another. Only entry points, ouputs and variables are relevant. Then I changed some info that was different on other documentations. My goal is to put order in the data given. This work took time and there are surely mistakes but it is corrigible and, do not hesitate to do it when it is the case.

NYYRIKKI wrote:

the most important stuff is still on the same place and updated for compatibility reasons.

The differences are still quite important. I think it would become very messy if we mixed the two.

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5013)

NYYRIKKI's picture

13-08-2018, 16:56

Timmy wrote:

Perhaps a stupid question, but how would I have known that in order to find "#F37D", I have to go to "Disc Communication Area" first? That sound even more complicated to me. Also, "BDOS" is also new to me. https://www.msx.org/wiki/BDOS is completely empty too.

No, no... This is definitely not a stupid question!... This is exactly the point that I'm trying to make! We are getting to a situation where the amount of information in Wiki is high and actually already more detailed and accurate than on most of the books around. Now the main problem is just that we have to figure out a way how the information is ordered in a way that it can reach typical information consumer in a meaningful way.

For example https://www.msx.org/wiki/MSX-BASIC is very good Wiki page... When you browse more deep in you get more detailed information than you can get from any manual ever... Most of the time even with nice example routines and links to other good pages to look for more info. It would be great if we could order the whole MSX programming as a subject in such a great and helpful way, but there are still more than few steps to take...

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5369)

mars2000you's picture

13-08-2018, 17:05

I suggest that gdx makes an introductory page for all these data, with links to all the pages with more details.

That's what I made with the VDP registers - See introductory page: https://www.msx.org/wiki/VDP_Registers

By gdx

Prophet (2213)

gdx's picture

13-08-2018, 17:52

Mars,
This is not applicable. Your page is talking about one thing, the VDP registers. Added the registers of the FM, PSG, and others into same page would not be relevant. This is the same reason why I separated working area from base system, disk, DOS1 and DOS2. Moreover, there are already links that lead to other parts. I did not turn it upside down all so.

PS: The specifics of MSX are missing in your description of registers. So this is not more interesting than the official documentation of the V9938/V9958. (eg the bit 7 of control register 8 is non used on MSX)

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5369)

mars2000you's picture

15-08-2018, 04:43

When you try to think out of the box, it's always possible to find an higher level to associate what seems too different. I've created the Wikl page that corresponds to what I had in mind: https://www.msx.org/wiki/Special_memory_zones

At the same time, the remaining problem (page exceeding 32kB) is resolved!

By gdx

Prophet (2213)

gdx's picture

15-08-2018, 11:01

To avoid long pages and put order in the wiki I think we should classify all like following example:

Assembler and machine language for standard devices:

 - Basic interpreter
  - Listing format
  - Tokens
  - System variables and work area for the Basic interpreter

 - Keyboard management
  - Keyboard routines from Disk-Rom
  - System variables and work area for Keyboard

 - Controllers (Joysticks, mouse, touch pad, etc)
  - Variables and work area for the controllers

 - Disks programming 
  - Disk routines from Disk-Rom
  - Disk routines from Main-Rom
  - Disk routines from users
  - System variables and work area for disks

 - Graphics & Video programming
  - Graphics routines from Main-Rom
  - Graphics routines from Sub-Rom
  - Graphics routines from users
  - System variables and work area for graphics
  - VDP registers

 - Math 
  - Routines from Main-Rom
  - Routines from users

 - Memory management
  - How found the Ram
  - Memory Mapper
  - Slots
  - System variables and work area for slots

 - Music and sound programming
  - PSG registers
  - MSX-Music
  - Sound routines from Main-Rom
  - Sound routines from users
  - Variables and work area for music and sound

 - Real Time Clock

 - RS-232C interface
  - System variables and work area for the RS-232C

 - R800 and Z80
  - Opcodes list

This kind of classification implicates divide everything into a lot of pages and sometimes repeat somethings but it allows to quickly find corresponding information of the device we want to program. This breaks the overview that can be at least useful to found mistakes into the wiki by cons.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5369)

mars2000you's picture

15-08-2018, 11:36

I think it's a good solution, but at the same time it means the page I've created https://www.msx.org/wiki/Special_memory_zones is absolutely required, as it will be the only place where you can find the real sequence in memory (from F1C9h to FFFFh) of the different parts. Or, if you prefer, the global overview in the real order in the memory.

I'm not sure if you have ever read my previous post and checked this page before making changes. Anyway, I've updated my page to the current situation.

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5013)

NYYRIKKI's picture

15-08-2018, 12:45

Now, I would say we are going to wrong direction really fast... Example:

FCBFh	SAVENT	1	Start address for BSAVE / BLOAD operations.

I would say this is very useful information especially for cassette users, who do not have random access to files... How on earth they are now supposed to find this information if it is categorized under "System variables for disks" ???!!!

If the pages need to be split I would definitely like to keep them describing certain block of memory without exceptions. I would say that when there is some variable, that clearly is "misplaced in memory" there should be "look also here"-link to it instead that it is moved outside the document that is describing the area.

Ps. Thank you mars2000you of trying to keep this in some sort of order...

By gdx

Prophet (2213)

gdx's picture

15-08-2018, 12:50

NYYRIKKI wrote:

Now, I would say we are going to wrong direction really fast... Example:

FCBFh	SAVENT	1	Start address for BSAVE / BLOAD operations.

I would say this is very useful information especially for cassette users, who do not have random access to files... How on earth they are now supposed to find this information if it is categorized under "System variables for disks" ???!!!

That's one of the reasons we have to repeat somethings by dividing by categories.

PS: All can not be done all at once.

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5013)

NYYRIKKI's picture

15-08-2018, 12:57

Ok, ok... I try to be patient and see how you complete your vision...

In the end I'm afraid that we have to do same that was done with BASIC... There is now one page that has commands in alphabetical order and one page that has things in order by category... On this kind of documentation it will be hell to maintain, but it seems pretty much only way to make the documentation fitting different kind of needs.

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