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By friguron

Master (173)

friguron's picture

12-05-2020, 10:08

Mmmm, makes complete sense... I think OpenMSX current message is misleading because it's somewhat informing about "diska" being the name of the disk drive wanted to be used, when it's the disk image enabler parameter.

If only OpenMSX had literally yielded Manuel's (human and intuitive) answer as an error message I wouldn't have lost time trying to investigate this Smile

All good then...

By Manuel

Ascended (18074)

Manuel's picture

12-05-2020, 16:55

How about this:

$ openmsx -diska dsk/colony.dsk -machine Toshiba_HX-20E
Fatal error: No disk drive A present to put image 'dsk/colony.dsk' in.

By ren

Paragon (1855)

ren's picture

12-05-2020, 17:49

Some things of which most aren't showstoppers and a lot of suggestions that involve .tcl scripts (so relatively easy for anyone (in or outside the team) to pick up / improve upon):

  • the leds displayed on machine start aren't always (mostly not) representative. There's always a a kana & turbo led for machines that don't have these leds/features. These leds are meant to represent the leds on the actual machine right (not mere status indicators). Somewhat confusing/misleading;

  • (when turbo is activated on Pana 2+ a visual cue / led would be nice as well, but such a thing is unexisting on real machines);

  • I expect set z80_freq to give the current Z80 frequency, but it seems to always give the default freq (for Z80 at least). When running turbo MSX2+ I do get the right value when issuing machine_info z80_freq;

  • I think it would be neat to display machine/media info when starting the machine. Now, to e.g. simply verify or check things, I have to manually issue multiple commands like toggle_info_panel, rom_info and/or machine_info <topic>. Pretty cumbersome? (I notice that rom_info will show after drag-dropping a ROM and the MSX is being reset);

  • I think displaying CPU in use and the CPU freq in the info panel would be neat. And perhaps the (current) active sound chip or extension(s) (I know of toggle_vu_meters.) And the leds (in mini-format) could be shown there as well. (Only way to reveal those again is by using the reverse bar?)

  • 'Invalid command' when issuing led_<name>;

  • Regarding the new media drag-drop: display the name of the file that's being dropped and have an option to cancel via mouse (either via a button/option or clicking outside the dialog) (I do know Esc works ;))
    I see mapper selection for unrecognized media is supported as well, nice :) Perhaps give a visual cue what mapper has been selected (also for recognized media).

    When inserting in another slot than A, the machine will reboot and display what's in slot A: 'Now running ROM ...' or 'No ROM information available' (rom_info). That no-info available message could be improved by also mentioning the filename (and cartridge slot). Perhaps also mention the mapper that's applied/in use. Perhaps info from all slots should be printed?

Cheers :)

By friguron

Master (173)

friguron's picture

12-05-2020, 18:51

Manuel wrote:

How about this:

$ openmsx -diska dsk/colony.dsk -machine Toshiba_HX-20E
Fatal error: No disk drive A present to put image 'dsk/colony.dsk' in.

I would reword it somewhat claiming that is the selected msx machine the one not having an attached disk drive and that the user should select a machine having it or alternatively inserting an external disk drive via command line.

"This machine [toshiba xxxxx] has no internal disk drives installed, diska parameter will be ignored. Alternatively specify an external disk drive via yyyyyy param. Or select another msx model having a disk drive"

In my developments I'm switching through many different machines and that kind of message would inform me about the availability of external disk drives for the user to specify (for example, I didn't even know this capability!)
It's a personal preference anyway, so change it if it's ok for the team.

Greetings

By Manuel

Ascended (18074)

Manuel's picture

12-05-2020, 22:36

friguron: it's a bit complex to make it such a large message. For instance, at this point I don't easily know whether there are built-in drives or not. Only that there is no drive for "A" (or "B" if you use diskb) available on the emulated system at all.

So I think I'll just keep it as I put it above... the point is simply: you want to insert a disk in drive A, but there is no drive A. I hoped that the user would then know what to do. What do you do if your friend gives you a disk, tells you to insert it in drive A and you walk to your MSX setup with the disk, but you don't have any disk drives? You would tell: hey, my system does not have a disk drive "A" (or any at all) to put this disk in! And then your friend would say: oh, here you have an external disk drive, to connect to your MSX, try again. Or he'll build in a disk drive for you, or give you another MSX with a built in disk drive... right? Smile

By Manuel

Ascended (18074)

Manuel's picture

12-05-2020, 22:52

Hi ren,

Thanks for your comments and suggestions. A quick response here.

ren wrote:

[*] the leds displayed on machine start aren't always (mostly not) representative. There's always a a kana & turbo led for machines that don't have these leds/features. These leds are meant to represent the leds on the actual machine right (not mere status indicators). Somewhat confusing/misleading;

Yes, I fully agree, already since 2006: https://github.com/openMSX/openMSX/issues/163 :)

Quote:

[*] (when turbo is activated on Pana 2+ a visual cue / led would be nice as well, but such a thing is unexisting on real machines);

Indeed. And together with your other remark to display the current CPU frequency somewhere fits here. On the other hand: this is indeed internal info, you won't see it on a real MSX either. So, it is some kind of extra info. Where should it be displayed? The LEDs are not suitable, as they try to show physical LEDs (despite not all of them being on all machines).

What would be the best way?

Quote:

[*] I expect set z80_freq to give the current Z80 frequency, but it seems to always give the default freq (for Z80 at least). When running turbo MSX2+ I do get the right value when issuing machine_info z80_freq;

Yes, that's by design. the z80_freq setting is only meant to override the Z80 frequency in combination with z80_freq_locked. (This is to handle the conflict of the MSX changing the frequency as well.)

Quote:

[*] I think it would be neat to display machine/media info when starting the machine. Now, to e.g. simply verify or check things, I have to manually issue multiple commands like toggle_info_panel, rom_info and/or machine_info <topic>. Pretty cumbersome? (I notice that rom_info will show after drag-dropping a ROM and the MSX is being reset);

Like a brief, fading out display of the info_panel?

Yeah, rom_info is shown also when inserting a ROM via the OSD menu. But that is only about ROMs. Because for other media there isn't much to tell, except for the filename you specified yourself :)

So, can you be a bit more specific/detailed on what you would expect?

Quote:

[*] I think displaying CPU in use and the CPU freq in the info panel would be neat. And perhaps the (current) active sound chip or extension(s) (I know of toggle_vu_meters.) And the leds (in mini-format) could be shown there as well. (Only way to reveal those again is by using the reverse bar?)

The info panel is not very large. It is made to fit a 2x scaling window exactly. I don't think there's that much space to add. There can be loads of sound chips and extensions present and active. Where to put all of them?

The LEDs are revealed whenever they change status, but it depends on the 'icon set' used for the LEDs. Try "load_icons set3" for instance.

Quote:

[*] 'Invalid command' when issuing led_<name>;

Yes, it's not a command, but a read-only setting to query the LED status :)

Quote:

[*] Regarding the new media drag-drop: display the name of the file that's being dropped and have an option to cancel via mouse (either via a button/option or clicking outside the dialog) (I do know Esc works ;))

OK, nice idea to add a Cancel option. But do you want then a confirm for all types? Because now there is only a dialog when it's not clear what to do... (and some other devs already found that a bit over the top.)

Quote:

I see mapper selection for unrecognized media is supported as well, nice :) Perhaps give a visual cue what mapper has been selected (also for recognized media).

Perhaps put that in rom_info?

Quote:

When inserting in another slot than A, the machine will reboot and display what's in slot A: 'Now running ROM ...' or 'No ROM information available' (rom_info). That no-info available message could be improved by also mentioning the filename (and cartridge slot). Perhaps also mention the mapper that's applied/in use. Perhaps info from all slots should be printed?

Well, what do you think? I'll think a bit about expanding rom_info as well.

By AxelF

Champion (386)

AxelF's picture

12-05-2020, 23:05

Still having troubble with the deadkey's in Openmsx 0.15.0
When i want to type a " ( [shift] + " ) followed by a [Space ], i will end up with a double " "
Happens in windows 7 and 10, it is so annoying when loading files.

By Manuel

Ascended (18074)

Manuel's picture

13-05-2020, 00:54

US international layout doesn't work well with our keyboard emulation... Did you try with the latest development build on http://openMSX.dev?

By friguron

Master (173)

friguron's picture

13-05-2020, 01:07

Manuel wrote:

friguron: it's a bit complex to make it such a large message. For instance, at this point I don't easily know whether there are built-in drives or not. Only that there is no drive for "A" (or "B" if you use diskb) available on the emulated system at all.

So I think I'll just keep it as I put it above... the point is simply: you want to insert a disk in drive A, but there is no drive A. I hoped that the user would then know what to do. What do you do if your friend gives you a disk, tells you to insert it in drive A and you walk to your MSX setup with the disk, but you don't have any disk drives? You would tell: hey, my system does not have a disk drive "A" (or any at all) to put this disk in! And then your friend would say: oh, here you have an external disk drive, to connect to your MSX, try again. Or he'll build in a disk drive for you, or give you another MSX with a built in disk drive... right? Smile

Oh yes I can see your point, for me it's valid.

I just feel many MSX users think openmsx is too technical for their taste. Starting to yield messages which are informative and human at the same time (and which explain you the exact picture describing an issue) is something that probably widens "our" audience in a nice way. At least I welcome this kind of messages and I try to create them when I write my programs.

Otherwise, all good!

PS: I can see so much activity on github, OpenMSX changelog is starting to feel more definitive and full of many things as days pass Smile

By Manuel

Ascended (18074)

Manuel's picture

13-05-2020, 13:06

@ren: I changed the ROM info to show the info we do have, and if there's no title, it will show the filename instead. And also the mapper. And the slot info.

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