Questions about ".Wav" Files in OpenMSX.

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By manolito74

Paragon (1190)

manolito74's picture

17-06-2014, 15:11

Hello,

I'd like to do some questions about ".Wav" Files on OpenMsx:

- What's the best Format to the ".Wav" Files (44.100Hz, 48.000Hz...., 16Bit, 8 Bit, Mono, Stereo...)?

- What's the function of the "Cassette Volume" option on the "Audio Controls" (see picture below)? It affects at the volume of the ".Wav" File in order to load it on OpenMSX or affects only at the Volume we hear the sound through the Speakers?

- What's the meaning of "M L R O" in the "Audio Controls"?

It would be great more Info on Screen or a "Monitor" in the OpenMSX or Catapult when we load a ".Wav" File: length of the ".Wav", Blocks, Name of the Blocks...

Thanks a lot! ;-)

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By hit9918

Prophet (2905)

hit9918's picture

17-06-2014, 16:28

turning casette volume to 0, things still load, so it's just casette speaker.
the best format. we just had that topic the other day, it is a complicated question Smile
however you might try 44khz 8bit mono, compress the wav with zip, load the zip in openmsx and just be happy.

"Blocks, Name of the Blocks..."
wav is much like emulating the real thing, cant look inside a casette.
before getting special features beyond a tape drive I would want a better tape drive.
like display how many seconds it is into the wav. and a button for end-of-tape.

and filenames,
well with the usual casette game I imagine one wav file that has the name of the game, done.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (6014)

mars2000you's picture

17-06-2014, 16:38

With the CAS format, you can see the contents of the tape, for example in the blueMSX interface :

Besides, with the 'Set position' option, you can start the tape from a selected position, it's useful especially for tapes with several games, no need to use the eventual intro menu, you can run directly the game of your choice. That's one of the reasons why I dislike the automatical RUN-BLOAD-CLOAD forcing of openMSX.

By Manuel

Ascended (18233)

Manuel's picture

17-06-2014, 22:48

manolito74 wrote:

- What's the best Format to the ".Wav" Files (44.100Hz, 48.000Hz...., 16Bit, 8 Bit, Mono, Stereo...)?

8-bit or 16-bit doesn't matter as long as the signal is clear enough. Sample frequency depends on baud rate you want to use. But I guess something like 11kHz is always fine. Stereo is useless, just use mono.

Quote:

- What's the function of the "Cassette Volume" option on the "Audio Controls" (see picture below)? It affects at the volume of the ".Wav" File in order to load it on OpenMSX or affects only at the Volume we hear the sound through the Speakers?

The latter.

Quote:

- What's the meaning of "M L R O" in the "Audio Controls"?

Mono, Left, Right, Off.

Quote:

It would be great more Info on Screen or a "Monitor" in the OpenMSX or Catapult when we load a ".Wav" File: length of the ".Wav", Blocks, Name of the Blocks...

As already explained, that's only possible with CAS files.

mars2000you wrote:

With the CAS format, you can see the contents of the tape, for example in the blueMSX interface :

...off topic... Tongue

Quote:

That's one of the reasons why I dislike the automatical RUN-BLOAD-CLOAD forcing of openMSX.

Just turn of the autoruncassettes setting if you don't like it.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (6014)

mars2000you's picture

18-06-2014, 00:07

Manuel wrote:
mars2000you wrote:

With the CAS format, you can see the contents of the tape, for example in the blueMSX interface :

...off topic... Tongue

It's on topic, because manolito74 wanted additionnal infos. Before internally converting CAS to WAV, openMSX could analyse the CAS file to find and store the data that blueMSX displays, then a tcl script could maybe help.

And the inverse way if someone loads directly a WAV file, as you could internally make the conversion WAV to CAS.

Of course, the easiest way should be direct support for CAS files ! Smile

Only 1% of tapes can't be saved in the CAS format. Martos has made a great work to patch 'difficult' CAS files to make them working.

Quote:

Quote:
That's one of the reasons why I dislike the automatical RUN-BLOAD-CLOAD forcing of openMSX.

Just turn of the autoruncassettes setting if you don't like it.

In my humble opinion, it should be disabled by default.

By Manuel

Ascended (18233)

Manuel's picture

18-06-2014, 11:04

mars2000you wrote:

It's on topic, because manolito74 wanted additionnal infos. Before internally converting CAS to WAV, openMSX could analyse the CAS file to find and store the data that blueMSX displays, then a tcl script could maybe help.

The auto load instruction is determined by interpreting the CAS file. It's not hard to add extraction of more info. But I don't think it's very useful. Almost all cassette software/games are just running, no need to get into all details. So, I have no plans to work on this.

However, the topic was WAV files, not CAS files.

Quote:

And the inverse way if someone loads directly a WAV file, as you could internally make the conversion WAV to CAS.

This is a very tricky and non-trivial conversion (and indeed, not always possible).

Quote:

Of course, the easiest way should be direct support for CAS files ! Smile

I don't understand that.

Quote:

In my humble opinion, it should be disabled by default.

Why? Almost all the time you just want to run the content of the CAS file. When wouldn't you want to do that?
Defaults are supposed to make the common case easy. I think loading and running a tape game is the most common case (like 99% or higher). So I don't understand why you want it disabled by default.

And then again: you only have to change the setting once, and it's disabled for you forever... why the fuss?

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5889)

NYYRIKKI's picture

18-06-2014, 14:47

Manuel wrote:
Quote:

In my humble opinion, it should be disabled by default.

Why? Almost all the time you just want to run the content of the CAS file. When wouldn't you want to do that?
Defaults are supposed to make the common case easy. I think loading and running a tape game is the most common case (like 99% or higher). So I don't understand why you want it disabled by default.

And then again: you only have to change the setting once, and it's disabled for you forever... why the fuss?

I agree with mars2000you... I would like to turn the questions around: When I insert cassette to real MSX there is no army of brainless monkeys that automatically start hitting my keyboard no matter am I in DOS, running text editor or playing a game. I would consider showing a load command in overlay as a nice feature, but I absolutely hate these kind of defaults when my emulated MSX is hijacked without my approval just because "someone thought that I would probably like it". I consider this kind of assumptions pretty rude. This behavior is also not available with WAV-files, so I can't even trust it to load all cassette games automatically... even if I happen to be in BASIC direct command mode without anything typed in... It is more like a glitch that jumps in as working solution when all the stars in the sky happen to be in correct position.

Ps. I know that 99% of MSX emulator users are playing games alone. Even if it would be easy for emulator to automatically select single player game mode when game is started I would not like it to do that automatically either.

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5889)

NYYRIKKI's picture

18-06-2014, 15:10

Manuel, I don't know if you share my thoughts, but think it this way: If I see a good offer of an interesting magazine I may very well click the order- or more information button and feel good about it, but when someone calls me without asking and starts telling me about their very good offer I really don't consider that as good customer service, but more just annoying. With these kind of things it makes really big difference if you take opt-in or opt-out approach.

By Manuel

Ascended (18233)

Manuel's picture

19-06-2014, 13:50

Any more opinions/insights on this from other people?

By saccopharynx

Master (165)

saccopharynx's picture

19-06-2014, 14:30

Both sides have strong arguments to support their respective opinions. It is hard to say. Is the controversial auto-run feature set on by default only when a CAS file is the input? If that is the case, why not when using WAV files?

Shouldn't the behaviour be the same regardless the input?

By Grauw

Ascended (10135)

Grauw's picture

19-06-2014, 15:10

Well as you’re asking… I agree with NYYRIKKI that it shouldn’t automatically be doing this by default.

Basically for the same reasons; IMO the emulator shouldn’t suddenly start typing for me, UX-wise it is unexpected behaviour that will always surprise a first-time user, and if you didn’t actually want to run anything you have to start digging through manuals to find out how to turn it off, which is annoying. Also it is inconsistent, because it only does this for CAS files and not for WAV-files. Or DSK-files.

IMO it should be a GUI feature, like a checkbox on the “open file” dialog, or a command line option.

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