SVI-707 problems

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By rderooy

Champion (318)

rderooy's picture

10-03-2018, 23:00

After some extensive testing in the evening hours of the Spectravideo SVI-707 with every MSX supported by openMSX...

Basically on lots of systems it will not boot to Disk-BASIC or MSX-DOS, but will boot CP/M. Then there are some system that are reversed, that will boot Disk-BASIC or MSX-DOS but not CP/M, and then there are some systems where none of them work.

I would appreciate it if someone who understands disk ROMs could have a look at it. Is this an issue
with how the SVI-707 is being emulated in openMSX, or is this a genuine issue with the SVI-707 itself?
If the later, what are the actual constraints to have the SVI-707 function properly?

It seems, based on the data below, that having the base RAM in slot 0 (or a sub-slot of 0) has a good chance of it working. But then there are exceptions, including the SVI-728 itself for which it was developed!

************************************
* DiskBASIC: OK, MSX-DOS: OK, CP/M: OK
*
* The following systems works without problems.
* Without disk in the drive you get the "loading CP/M system..." message
* it then reboots and it starts Disk-BASIC, or MSX-DOS if the disk is present
* They also start CP/M
*
*Syntax used for testing:
*openmsx -machine Spectravideo_SVI-728 -ext Spectravideo_SVI-707
*openmsx -machine Spectravideo_SVI-728 -ext Spectravideo_SVI-707 -diska CP224R13.dmk
*openmsx -machine Spectravideo_SVI-728 -ext Spectravideo_SVI-707 -diska MSXDOS17.DSK
************************************
Spectravideo SVI-728		base 64kB in slot 1
CIEL Expert Turbo		base 64kB in slot 2
Sony HB-10P			base 64kB in slot 3
Toshiba HX-22I			base 64kB in slot 0+3.0
Toshiba HX-23			base 64kB in slot 0+3.0, msx2
Toshiba HX-23F			base 64kB in slot 0+3.0, msx2
Toshiba HX-51I			base 64kB in slot 0+3

************************************
* DiskBASIC: OK, MSX-DOS: OK, CP/M: OK
*
* The following systems also work fine, assuming a 64kB RAM expansion is added
* Without RAM expansion they will boot to Disk-BASIC
* They will also boot MSX-DOS assuming enough RAM is present (expansion or not)
* Note that even though some systems have 64kB of RAM standard, they still need the
* RAM expansion to start CP/M
*
*Syntax used for testing:
*openmsx -machine Sony_HB-F5 -exta ram64k -extb Spectravideo_SVI-707
*openmsx -machine Sony_HB-F5 -exta ram64k -extb Spectravideo_SVI-707 -diska CP224R13.dmk
*openmsx -machine Sony_HB-F5 -exta ram64k -extb Spectravideo_SVI-707 -diska MSXDOS17.DSK
************************************
Canon V-10			base 16kB in slot 0
Hitachi MB-H1			base 32kB in slot 0
Mitsubishi ML-F110		base 16kB in slot 0
National CF-1200		base 16kB in slot 0
National CF-2000		base 16kB in slot 0
National CF-2700		base 32kB in slot 0
Philips VG 8000			base 16kB in slot 0
Philips VG 8010			base 32kB in slot 0
Pioneer PX-7			base 32kB in slot 0
Sanyo MPC-10			base 32kB in slot 0
Sanyo PHC-28S			base 16kB in slot 0
Sony HB-10			base 16kB in slot 0
Sony HB-55P			base 16kB in slot 0
Sony HB-101			base 16kB in slot 0
Sony HB-101P			base 32kB in slot 0
Sony HB-F5			base 64kB in slot 0.2
Sony HB-F500P			base 64kB in slot 0.0+0.2, diskb
Victor HC-80			base 64kB in slot 0.0+0.2
Yamaha CX5M			base 32kB in slot 0
Yamaha YIS-503F			base 32kB in slot 0

************************************
* DiskBASIC: OK, MSX-DOS: OK, CP/M: FAIL
*
* The following systems will boot Disk-BASIC, and assuming enough RAM is present MSX-DOS
* They will not print the Loading CP/M system message, and will not start CP/M regardless
* of 64kB RAM expansion
*
*Syntax used for testing:
*openmsx -machine Canon_V-8 -exta ram64k -extb Spectravideo_SVI-707 -diska CP224R13.dmk
************************************
Bawareth Perfect MSX1		base 64kB in slot 0.2
Canon V-8			base 16kB in slot 0
Casio MX-10			base 16kB in slot 0
Casio PV-16			base 16kB in slot 0
Daewoo CPC-300			base 128kB in slot 0.2
Daewoo CPC-300E			base 64kB in slot 0.2
Daewoo CPC-400S			base 128kB in slot 0.2, diskb
Daewoo CPC-61			base 64kB in slot 0.2
Fujitsu FM-X			base 16kB in slot 0
Pioneer UC-V102			base 64kB in slot 0.2, diskb
Victor HC-95A			base 64kB in slot 0.2, diskb

************************************
* DiskBASIC: FAIL, MSX-DOS: FAIL, CP/M: OK
*
* With no disk in the drive, or a MSX-DOS disk they will hang on the "loading CP/M system..." message
* But with the CP/M disk in the drive they will boot CP/M.
*
*Syntax used for testing:
*openmsx -machine Spectravideo_SVI-738 -ext Spectravideo_SVI-707
*openmsx -machine Spectravideo_SVI-738 -ext Spectravideo_SVI-707 -diskb CP224R13.dmk
*openmsx -machine Spectravideo_SVI-738 -ext Spectravideo_SVI-707 -diskb MSXDOS17.DSK
************************************
Spectravideo SVI-738		base 64kB in slot 1, diskb
Al Alamiah AX-170		base 64kB in slot 3.0
Canon V-20,			base 64kB in slot 3.0
Daewoo DPC-200			base 64kB in slot 2
Frael BRUC 100-2		base 64kB in slot 1
Goldstar FC-200			base 64kB in slot 2
Goldstar FC-80U			base 64kB in slot 2
Gradiente Expert DD Plus	base 64kB in slot 3.0, diskb
Gradiente Expert GPC-1		base 64kB in slot 2
Gradiente Expert Plus		base 64kB in slot 3.0
Gradiente Expert XP-800		base 64kB in slot 2
JVC HC-7GB			base 64kB in slot 2
Mitsubishi ML-F80		base 64kB in slot 1
National CF-3000		base 64kB in slot 1
National CF-3300		base 64kB in slot 3.0
National FS-1300		base 64kB in slot 3
Panasonic CF-2700		base 64kB in slot 1
Panasonic FS-A1			base 64kB in slot 3.0, msx2
Panasonic FS-A1mk2		base 64kB in slot 3.0, msx2
Panasonic FS-A1F		base 64kB in slot 3.0, msx2, diskb
Panasonic FS-A1FM		base 64kB in slot 3.0, msx2, diskb
Panasonic FS-A1FX		base 64kB in slot 3.0, msx2+, diskb
Panasonic FS-A1GT		base 512kB in slot 3.0, msxTR, diskb
Panasonic FS-A1ST		base 256kB in slot 3.0, msxTR, diskb
Panasonic FS-A1WSX		base 64kB in slot 3.0, msx2+, diskb
Panasonic FS-A1WX		base 64kB in slot 3.0, msx2+, diskb
Philips VG 8020/00		base 64kB in slot 3
Sanyo MPC-6			base 64kB in slot 3
Sanyo MPC-100			base 64kB in slot 3
Sanyo PHC-28L			base 64kB in slot 3
Sanyo PHC-35J			base 64kB in slot 3.0, msx2
Sanyo PHC-70FD			base 64kB in slot 3.0, msx2+, diskb
Sharp HB-8000			base 64kB in slot 3
Sony HB-20P			base 64kB in slot 3
Sony HB-75P			base 64kB in slot 2
Sony HB-201			base 64kB in slot 3
Sony HB-201P			base 64kB in slot 3
Sony HB-501P			base 64kB in slot 3, diskb
Sony HB-F1XDJ			base 64kB in slot 3.0, msx2+, diskb
Sony HB-F1XV			base 64kB in slot 3.0, msx2+, diskb
Talent DPC-200			base 64kB in slot 1
Talent TPC-310			base 128kB in slot 1, msx2
Toshiba FS-TM1			base 64kB in slot 3.0, msx2
Toshiba HX-10			base 64kB in slot 2
Toshiba HX-10D			base 64kB in slot 2
Toshiba HX-21			base 64kB in slot 3.0
Toshiba HX-22			base 64kB in slot 3.0
Yashica YC-64			base 64kB in slot 3

************************************
* DiskBASIC: FAIL, MSX-DOS: FAIL, CP/M: OK
*
* Will hang on boot just after the MSX logo screen with a blank screen.
* They will however boot CP/M if a 64kB RAM expansion is added
*
*Syntax used for testing:
*openmsx -machine Philips_NMS_8250 -exta ram64k -extb Spectravideo_SVI-707
*openmsx -machine Philips_NMS_8250 -exta ram64k -extb Spectravideo_SVI-707 -diskb CP224R13.dmk
*openmsx -machine Philips_NMS_8250 -exta ram64k -extb Spectravideo_SVI-707 -diskb MSXDOS17.DSK
************************************
Al Alamiah AX-350II		base 128kB in slot 3.2, msx2, diskb
Al Alamiah AX-350IIF		base 128kB in slot 3.2, msx2, diskb
Al Alamiah AX-370		base 128kB in slot 3.3, msx2, diskb
Canon V-25			base 64kB in slot 3.2, msx2
Hitachi MB-H3			base 64kB in slot 3.2, msx2
Mitsubishi ML-G1		base 64kB in slot 3.2, msx2
Mitsubishi ML-G3		base 64kB in slot 3.2, msx2, diskb (requires slotexpander)
National FS-4500		base 64kB in slot 3.2, msx2
National FS-4600		base 128kB in slot 3.2, msx2, diskb
National FS-4700		base 64kB in slot 3.2, msx2, diskb
National FS-5500F1		base 64kB in slot 3.2, msx2, diskb
Philips NMS 8220		base 64kB in slot 3.2, msx2
Philips NMS 8245		base 128kB in slot 3.2, msx2, diskb
Philips NMS 8250		base 128kB in slot 3.2, msx2, diskb
Philips VG 8230			base 64kB in slot 3.2, msx2, diskb
Philips VG 8235			base 128kB in slot 3.2, msx2, diskb
Sanyo PHC-23J(B)		base 64kB in slot 3.2, msx2
Sony HB-F9P			base 128kB in slot 3.2, msx2
Sony HB-F9S			base 128kB in slot 3.2, msx2
Sony HB-F700D			base 256kB in slot 3.3, msx2, diskb
Sony HB-F700P			base 256kB in slot 3.3, msx2, diskb
Sony HB-F1			base 64kB in slot 3.3, msx2
Sony HB-F1II			base 64kB in slot 3.3, msx2
Sony HB-F1XD			base 64kB in slot 3.3, msx2
Yamaha YIS-503IIIR		base 128kB in slot 3.2, msx2

************************************
* DiskBASIC: FAIL, MSX-DOS: FAIL, CP/M: OK
*
* same as above, but as these have 2 internal drives they run into an openMSX limitation.
* openMSX does not allow the commandline flag 'diskc' (why?), which is needed as the SVI-707
* will be the 3rd drive. Instead it is necessary to start the machine without disk and use the
* openMSX commandline to put a disk into 'diskc' and reset the machine
*
************************************
National FS-5000		base 128kB in slot 3.2, msx2, diskc
National FS-5500F2		base 64kB in slot 3.2, msx2, diskc
Philips NMS 8255		base 128kB in slot 3.2, msx2, diskc
Sony HB-F900P			base 256kB in slot 3.1, msx2, diskc
Yamaha YIS-805/128R2		base 128kB in slot 3.2, msx2, diskc

************************************
* DiskBASIC: FAIL, MSX-DOS: FAIL, CP/M: OK
*
* These hang on boot at the MSX1 logo screen, but will boot CP/M with a 64kB RAM expansion
* Will not boot Disk-BASIC or MSX-DOS regardless of RAM expansion
************************************
Daewoo DPC-100			base 32kB in slot 2
National FS-4000		base 64kB in slot 3.2
Philips VG 8020/19		base 64kB in slot 3.2
Philips VG 8020/20		base 64kB in slot 3.2
Yamaha CX5MII			base 64kB in slot 3.2
Yamaha CX5MII/128		base 128kB in slot 3.2
Yamaha YIS-503IIR		base 64kB in slot 3.2

************************************
* DiskBASIC: FAIL, MSX-DOS: FAIL, CP/M: FAIL
*
* Hangs with blank screen
* RAM expansion does not help (needs slotexpander)
*
*openmsx -machine Sanyo_MPC-25FD -ext Spectravideo_SVI-707
*openmsx -machine Sanyo_MPC-25FD -exta slotexpander - extb ram64k -extc Spectravideo_SVI-707
************************************
Sanyo MPC-25FD			base 64kB in slot 3.2, msx2, diskb

************************************
* DiskBASIC: FAIL, MSX-DOS: FAIL, CP/M: FAIL
*
* forever reboot loop (64kB RAM expansion has no effect)
*	10 "loading CP/M system..." message
*	20 "MSX logo screen"
*	30 go to the firmware program
*	40 select BASIC
*	50 reset
*	60 goto 10
************************************
Mitsubishi ML-F120		base 32kB in slot 0

************************************
* DiskBASIC: FAIL, MSX-DOS: FAIL, CP/M: FAIL
*
* expansion ignored
* with slotexpander+64kb expansion+SVI-707 it will just hang at the MSX logo screen
*
*openmsx -machine Casio_PV-7 -exta slotexpander - extb ram64k -extc Spectravideo_SVI-707
************************************
Casio PV-7			base 8kB in slot 0

************************************
* DiskBASIC: FAIL, MSX-DOS: FAIL, CP/M: FAIL
*
* Black screen
* color command does not work, no idea what is going on. No disk activity
*
*openmsx -machine Daewoo_CPC-51_Zemmix_V -ext Spectravideo_SVI-707
*openmsx -machine Daewoo_CPC-51_Zemmix_V -exta slotexpander - extb ram64k -extc Spectravideo_SVI-707
************************************
Daewoo CPC-51			base 64kB in slot 3.2
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By mars2000you

Enlighted (5304)

mars2000you's picture

10-03-2018, 23:06

Black screen on CPC-61 is normal, see Wikl page, emulation section.

By rderooy

Champion (318)

rderooy's picture

10-03-2018, 23:20

mars2000you wrote:

Black screen on CPC-61 is normal, see Wikl page, emulation section.

I know, that is why I said the color command does not work.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5304)

mars2000you's picture

10-03-2018, 23:22

rderooy wrote:
mars2000you wrote:

Black screen on CPC-61 is normal, see Wikl page, emulation section.

I know, that is why I said the color command does not work.

So, it means that the machine is hanging because it has problems with this special drive!

By zeilemaker54

Master (219)

zeilemaker54's picture

31-03-2018, 14:04

The cp/m boot rom is buggy, therefor it will hang if no 64Kb ram is found.

https://sourceforge.net/p/msxsyssrc/git/ci/master/tree/special/svi-707/boot-cpm.mac
Line 411

By zeilemaker54

Master (219)

zeilemaker54's picture

31-03-2018, 18:55

zeilemaker54 wrote:

The cp/m boot rom is buggy, therefor it will hang if no 64Kb ram is found.

https://sourceforge.net/p/msxsyssrc/git/ci/master/tree/special/svi-707/boot-cpm.mac
Line 411

It does not hang when RAM is in slot 0

By rderooy

Champion (318)

rderooy's picture

31-03-2018, 19:12

zeilemaker54 wrote:
zeilemaker54 wrote:

The cp/m boot rom is buggy, therefor it will hang if no 64Kb ram is found.

https://sourceforge.net/p/msxsyssrc/git/ci/master/tree/special/svi-707/boot-cpm.mac
Line 411

It does not hang when RAM is in slot 0

Correct, typically if a system has RAM in slot 0, it will work. If there is at least 64kB RAM. But this cannot be the only variable as the SVI-728 for which it was primarily meant has no RAM in slot 0.

By zeilemaker54

Master (219)

zeilemaker54's picture

01-04-2018, 08:37

rderooy wrote:
zeilemaker54 wrote:
zeilemaker54 wrote:

The cp/m boot rom is buggy, therefor it will hang if no 64Kb ram is found.

https://sourceforge.net/p/msxsyssrc/git/ci/master/tree/special/svi-707/boot-cpm.mac
Line 411

It does not hang when RAM is in slot 0

Correct, typically if a system has RAM in slot 0, it will work. If there is at least 64kB RAM. But this cannot be the only variable as the SVI-728 for which it was primarily meant has no RAM in slot 0.

It also works correct when 64KB is found (any primairy slot).
Please note that the cp/m boot rom does NOT search RAM in secundairy slots. So RAM in a secundairy slot other than zero, potentially hangs the machine.

By krazyminer

Resident (33)

krazyminer's picture

29-05-2018, 00:04

Hi there!

I just got the SVI-728 and SVI-707 system ROMs, and I try to boot CP/M with:

openmsx -machine Spectravideo_SVI-728 -ext Spectravideo_SVI-707 -diska CP224R13.DSK

but it does not work. DSK sha1sum is:

f91e697dcebd3a843bdd20fb4faae80112d9a576 CP224R13.DSK

I see people have success with the file:

CP224R13.dmk

How can I convert this DSK to DMK on Linux? I cannot find any tools to do the job. I found a TRS-80 site with some Windows tools. Or can you provide a link to a working DMK file? Thanks!

By krazyminer

Resident (33)

krazyminer's picture

29-05-2018, 15:16

krazyminer wrote:

f91e697dcebd3a843bdd20fb4faae80112d9a576 CP224R13.DSK

I found svi2dmk.cc in the git source tree's Contrib directory. The tools compiles and runs, but it cannot convert CP224R13.DSK, because the input file size is wrong. Any help with this?

By zeilemaker54

Master (219)

zeilemaker54's picture

29-05-2018, 19:32

I have used the tool DiskManip (Windows tool) to convert the IMD files to DMK. DMK file can be used by openMSX.
DSK files are not useable, because the disklayout on CP/M has a different sectorsize (128 bytes) and more sectors per track.
DSK files are based on 512 bytes sectors.
IMD files contains the orginal sectorsize and trackinfo

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