rights.

Page 4/5
1 | 2 | 3 | | 5

By IC

Hero (557)

IC's picture

12-07-2004, 01:43

Right.. And there you have it once again... You doubt it.. And ps: I read the whole thread...

The initial question was answered with 'nope' and now you say

'I will promise you though, that it is possible to legally make an MSX clone though, which was the question asked in this topic.'

now you know why I eventually came up with my previous post...

Imho: An MSX clone withouth any Roms is legal.

I will not go over the whole 'copyright/patent' stuff because it is well discussed here... My point is plain and simple: I can really make a mainboard of an MSX withouth using any roms and imho that is legal to do so...

The roms of an MSX are protected by law. The PSG, the MSX-Basic roms etc..etc.. The mainboard (and that was what the question was all about imho) is not protected by law! Everone may make a main board using relais, resistors etc to create a mainboard... The mainboard itself is not patented iirc.
So I do not use any illegal things on makin' such a board. Or does anyone disagree on that?

Second: If I read the thread correctly, MRC has taken over some of the licensing/ copyright stuff (or am I wrong here). Fly directly asks of MRC to reply on the post.. A direct 'nope' was the answer.. And that's where I got doubts about whole thread.

I will not state that patents are avoidable.. My point is just simple and direct (and this might get personal if I read this correctly): MRC has a certain point of view (ah! there was the correct choice of words) and you (a meber of MRC) don't back it up imho.. you're just assuming to much I guess, and I read the policies correct: a certain opinion does not mean that is a fact...

We need FACTs on this matter.. Not 'assumes'...
But thanx for the reaction anyways.. I will try to get the 'facts' myself Tongue

By [D-Tail]

Ascended (8232)

[D-Tail]'s picture

12-07-2004, 09:05

Imho: An MSX clone withouth any Roms is legal.That's what MTH said, too. That's why openMSX is distributed without the copyrighted ROMs. Instead, they deliver custom made compatible ROMs, which is legal because they (or a third party) made it themselves.

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout's picture

12-07-2004, 12:23

Second: If I read the thread correctly, MRC has taken over some of the licensing/ copyright stuff (or am I wrong here). Fly directly asks of MRC to reply on the post.. A direct 'nope' was the answer.. And that's where I got doubts about whole thread.I'm sorry to disappoint you, but MRC is only a 'messenger' in here. Alas, the MRC doesn't own any licenses or copyrights related to the MSX computer system. We are in touch with some Japanese companies, including MSX Association, from time to time, but that's about all there is to it. Besides, there is a difference between the foundation MRC and the website MRC. Not every translator, moderator or webmaster of the MRC is a member of the board of the foundation. In fact, currently only the three admins are. If you want to have a statement of the foundation MRC (which imho was the case in this thread) you'd really have to wait until one of the admins comes along Wink

Flyguille: If you have any questions left, we could ask them in our next mail to Japan. But, keep in mind that it might take a while until you receive an answer. Furthermore, translating English to Japanese and vice versa is a tedious job. Even if we wanted to, it's not possible to translate hundreds of questions or complete essays. So: keep it short, please! Smile

By Bart

Paragon (1423)

Bart's picture

12-07-2004, 12:32

Second: If I read the thread correctly, MRC has taken over some of the licensing/ copyright stuff (or am I wrong here).

I'm curious what made you assume that. Can you please quote a line, or lines, from this thread in which you "read" that?

By Sonic_aka_T

Enlighted (4130)

Sonic_aka_T's picture

12-07-2004, 14:44

Right.. And there you have it once again... You doubt it.. And ps: I read the whole thread...
Okay... Then I'm reading it wrong... I failed to see the question:

'Can someone please give me a certified declaration, signed before a notary public and validated by the U.S. patent office detailing all the applicable patent applications and grants concerning all the 20.000+ components used in every single MSX model ever produced.'

The initial question was answered with 'nope' and now you say
Yeah, that's because of my initial misunderstanding. You see, what I read instead of the above paragraph was 'is it illegal to make an MSX compatible computer if I don't use any copyrighted material' To this quick question I gave a quick answer: 'no'

now you know why I eventually came up with my previous post... Imho: An MSX clone withouth any Roms is legal.
Like I said, I gave a quick answer to a quick question. fly didn't ask for a detailed legal analysis.

I will not go over the whole 'copyright/patent' stuff because it is well discussed here... My point is plain and simple: I can really make a mainboard of an MSX withouth using any roms and imho that is legal to do so...

The roms of an MSX are protected by law. The PSG, the MSX-Basic roms etc..etc.. The mainboard (and that was what the question was all about imho) is not protected by law! Everone may make a main board using relais, resistors etc to create a mainboard... The mainboard itself is not patented iirc.
So I do not use any illegal things on makin' such a board. Or does anyone disagree on that?
Yeah, okay. That pretty much indicates that you fully agree with me. You just formulate it differently and make some assumptions that I didn't make. This is phunny, since you seem to hassle me over the fact that I won't guarantee anyone that there's not a single MSX related patent out there. You have no problem however asserting that the mainboard is not protected by law. So what is the discussion here? That I didn't write a 20-page essay as my initial answer to fly?

Second: If I read the thread correctly, MRC has taken over some of the licensing/ copyright stuff (or am I wrong here). Fly directly asks of MRC to reply on the post.. A direct 'nope' was the answer.. And that's where I got doubts about whole thread.
Well, that does kind of show that you're not really reading the thread as you should. I didn't see anyone at all mentioning MRC in this thread. Apart from that, please remember that, apart from translating newsposts, I have nothing to do with MRC, at least not officially.

I will not state that patents are avoidable.. My point is just simple and direct (and this might get personal if I read this correctly): MRC has a certain point of view (ah! there was the correct choice of words) and you (a meber of MRC) don't back it up imho.. you're just assuming to much I guess, and I read the policies correct: a certain opinion does not mean that is a fact...
Well, I don't know what MRC's standpoints on making MSX clones would be. I have never seen any statement from MRC regarding the matter. Apart from that, like I said, I have little to do with MRC apart from the fact that I help out on a volunteer base by translating posts. This doesn't matter though, I could be in the board of the MRC and I would still be entitled to my own opinion. Nothing any member of MRC says is a statement by MRC unless this is indicated. Usually such a post would start with 'MRC has decided' or 'MRC announces'.

We need FACTs on this matter.. Not 'assumes'...
But thanx for the reaction anyways.. I will try to get the 'facts' myself Tongue

Like I said. No-one asked for a detailed legal analysis. All fly asked is if it would be illegal. The answer is no. Even if there still are valid patents covering the MSX system, there's always a way around them. Copyright laws are even easier to avoid: just don't copy anything. If you want facts instead of assumptions, go ahead, draw up your essay with all the applicable patents and regulations. I hope you've got some spare time though, because unless you have the actual patent number, it's a real pain to find any applicable patents.

By flyguille

Prophet (3029)

flyguille's picture

12-07-2004, 15:20

the questions for the japanezes is:

If a hardware developer develops a MSX computer that duplicated the works of the MSX engine chip, and sell it in all the world. MSX asociation has any kind of patent? and if has that, MSX asociation will take legally actions?

NOTE: untill i know the engine chip can be the only one patentable chip.

Others are from zilog, yamaha, Western Digital.... etc...

By IC

Hero (557)

IC's picture

12-07-2004, 15:41

hehe Tongue Like snout stated earlier:

'I'm sorry to disappoint you, but MRC is only a 'messenger' in here. Alas, the MRC doesn't own any licenses or copyrights related to the MSX computer system.'

So Fly: by all means.. Go ahead Wink

By IC

Hero (557)

IC's picture

12-07-2004, 15:49

Second: If I read the thread correctly, MRC has taken over some of the licensing/ copyright stuff (or am I wrong here).

I'm curious what made you assume that. Can you please quote a line, or lines, from this thread in which you "read" that?

Page 1, post of mth I read: ' I read that Microsoft owns those copyrights and MSX Association licensed them for use in Japan. '

Omg.. MSX Associaton != MRC :S

By IC

Hero (557)

IC's picture

12-07-2004, 15:55


I'm sorry to disappoint you, but MRC is only a 'messenger' in here. Alas, the MRC doesn't own any licenses or copyrights related to the MSX computer system. We are in touch with some Japanese companies, including MSX Association, from time to time, but that's about all there is to it. Besides, there is a difference between the foundation MRC and the website MRC. Not every translator, moderator or webmaster of the MRC is a member of the board of the foundation. In fact, currently only the three admins are. If you want to have a statement of the foundation MRC (which imho was the case in this thread) you'd really have to wait until one of the admins comes along Wink

Ok, noted. The thing what was puzzlin'me is that fly asked a direct question to mrc and Sonic_aka_T answered it. Because Sonic has this 'mrc' icon I though he was actually making a statement with the point of view of MRC. But this clears things up for me though... I will not assume that much in the future.. My mistake.

And I know that my point of view was pretty direct too I guess (and that's why I even noticed it myself Wink

By Sonic_aka_T

Enlighted (4130)

Sonic_aka_T's picture

12-07-2004, 17:03

the questions for the japanezes is:
You should really ask the japanezes then. Ofcourse in this case you would be talking about a number of different japanezes. If you want permission, which they are unlikely to give, you'd have to contact each and everyone of them. You must also be very direct in your questions. They will usually use all kinds of escapes so they don't have to admit to the fact that they don't have a patent. If they do have one though, they will flat out say it. By law, they must answer something like 'parts (or all) of the design and functionality of the V9958 chip are protected by patents numbers xxx and xxx.'. Failure of the patent holder to clearly indicate they have a patent, or failure to enforce it, would pretty much safeguard you if you were to violate that patent.

If a hardware developer develops a MSX computer that duplicated the works of the MSX engine chip, and sell it in all the world. MSX asociation has any kind of patent? and if has that, MSX asociation will take legally actions?
As far as I know they only thing the MSX association has that would be a big issue is the MSX trademark. This means you must either get a licence or you cannot call your computer an MSX computer. The bulk of the issues you seem to inquire about though, is hardware made by other manufacturers. I guess the later engines could have been subject to patent law, but I've never seen any mention of patent numbers. Either check with the uspto or ask ASCII and the MSX Association directly.

NOTE: untill i know the engine chip can be the only one patentable chip.
Others are from zilog, yamaha, Western Digital.... etc...

In many cases this doesn't really matter. Even if the V9938 was patented, it would have expired anyways. The same goes for the Z80. You'd only have to look at the newer-generation computers like the Turbo-R. I haven't seen any patent notices sofar though. And even if something has a patent on it, you would need to see *what* was patented. It may be a small insignificant part of which a patent violation can be easily avoided.

I am curious though, are you making us an MSX3? Smile Tongue

Page 4/5
1 | 2 | 3 | | 5