Games that work on MSX2, but not on MSX2+

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By mfeingol

Champion (291)

mfeingol's picture

24-05-2014, 07:02

Back in the day, there were a number of games (cracked from tape, admittedly) that would work on MSX2, sometimes using the usual poke-1,X.

One thing I'm finding is that a lot of these games don't run at all on an MSX2+, with or without poke-1,X. Even when they work on MSX2. This may not be a revelation to anyone else, but it surprised me. I would have though memory layouts would be fairly similar between the two, but I guess not.

Examples of such games:

  • Robot Wars
  • Desolator
  • Krakout
  • Mad Mix 2
  • Bounder
  • Sir Fred

I've been playing with openMSX and the TOSEC archive, and I can get all of these to work on a Philips NMS8250, but none of them on a Panasonic FS-A1WX. I've tried the DSK versions and the CAS versions (with loadcas).

Are there any tricks you guys use to get this type of game running (aside from booting with CTRL and using the correct poke -1,X?)

(And yes, before anyone asks, I'm changing -1,170 to -1,poke -1,(15-peek(-1)\16)*17. But still, no go.)

Thanks.

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By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5837)

NYYRIKKI's picture

24-05-2014, 07:27

The problem is not "MSX2 vs MSX2+"... The correct problem is "Slot 0 expanded vs Slot 0 not expanded"

See here

By mfeingol

Champion (291)

mfeingol's picture

24-05-2014, 22:28

If I look at the openMSX hardwareconfig.xml definitions for the 8250 and the WX, sure enough - the main difference is that the WX has an expanded Slot 0 with the BIOS in 0-0 and an MSX-Music in 0-2. The 8250 just has the BIOS in 0.

I take it there is no workaround to get these programs running, beyond patching the software involved...

By Manuel

Ascended (18082)

Manuel's picture

24-05-2014, 22:54

Run them on an MSX without slot 0 expanded? Tongue

By mfeingol

Champion (291)

mfeingol's picture

24-05-2014, 22:57

Why didn't I think of that? ;-)

The one physical MSX I own is a WX with 512kB, and I'm looking for versions of certain games that will work on it. Sadly, there are a few favorites that are resisting so far, and that's the list above.

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5837)

NYYRIKKI's picture

25-05-2014, 04:32

I've been thinking... What would happen if you would short circuit slot 0-0 and slot 0-3 slot select signals with jump wire... would there be just some blue smoke or would it fix these problems?

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5837)

NYYRIKKI's picture

25-05-2014, 04:47

Oh, BTW I remember using POKE &HFCC1,0 to make European games like Pumpkin Adventure to work in A1WX (Panasonic MSX-Music & mapper related problem)... but with some luck it might help with some of these games as well...

By gdx

Enlighted (4631)

gdx's picture

25-05-2014, 15:01

'MSX compatibility problems' wrote:

Zaxxon

PROGRAM NAME:Zaxxon (by Electric Software, port from the ColecoVision version)

PROGRAM VERSION: Cassette

COMPATIBILITY PROBLEM DESCRIPTION: don't work on RMSX VISUAL EFFECT: don't scroll and sound loop

PROBLEM CAUSE: register 0 not correct initialize

SOLUTION / WORK AROUND: pacth cas:

replace 42 59 20 50 2E 48 2E 20 26 20 54 2e in 00A0

by this AF D3 99 3E 8F D3 99 C3 09 EC 00 00

replace C3 09 EC in 6D20

by this C3 24 80

( for MSX2 cas version don't start with this patch because zone system variable required a copy of MSX1 zone)

If I remember right this is not the real reason. This is a problem of VDP mirror. Zaxxon use a mirror that writes in the VDP register 15 on V9938/V9958. This patch doesn't work on MSX1 because it use the register 15.
This zaxxon also need a PSG fix.

By mfeingol

Champion (291)

mfeingol's picture

25-05-2014, 21:25

I gave "poke &hfcc1,0" a try in the relevant loaders, and sadly nothing changed.

The irony is that none of the affected games use MSX Music at all, so that expanded slot 0 isn't even accomplishing anything. I don't suppose there's a software mechanism to "unexpand" the slot and disable the MSX Music chip?

Quote:

What would happen if you would short circuit slot 0-0 and slot 0-3 slot select signals with jump wire... would there be just some blue smoke or would it fix these problems?

You'll excuse me if I don't try that. ;-)

Btw, on a related topic, I've seen a number of references to a program called map2.com that improves compatibility of certain programs with DOS2. I've found map.com, but map2.com doesn't seem to be generally available for download. If I'm not mistaken, someone on this thread wrote it. Smile Any chance it could be made available?

Thanks!

By Meits

Scribe (6432)

Meits's picture

25-05-2014, 23:02

You could try and I wish you a lot of luck on it, but I doubt it'll do the trick...

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5837)

NYYRIKKI's picture

26-05-2014, 01:16

mfeingol wrote:

I gave "poke &hfcc1,0" a try in the relevant loaders, and sadly nothing changed.

The irony is that none of the affected games use MSX Music at all, so that expanded slot 0 isn't even accomplishing anything. I don't suppose there's a software mechanism to "unexpand" the slot and disable the MSX Music chip?

... and that is exactly what this poke does... but it was not such a good idea... it is kind of obvious that software does not give rats ass about what the BIOS thinks... If it would then most probably we would not be having this conversation in the first place.

Quote:
Quote:

What would happen if you would short circuit slot 0-0 and slot 0-3 slot select signals with jump wire... would there be just some blue smoke or would it fix these problems?

You'll excuse me if I don't try that. ;-)

Yes. Smile I would very much expect that these signals are open collector with pull-up resistor (= should work), but since this is only speculation I can't really recommend to test it without better knowledge.

Quote:

Btw, on a related topic, I've seen a number of references to a program called map2.com that improves compatibility of certain programs with DOS2. I've found map.com, but map2.com doesn't seem to be generally available for download. If I'm not mistaken, someone on this thread wrote it. Smile Any chance it could be made available?

Thanks!

MAP2 works if you are using MSX-DOS2, your software uses disk drive and your software uses memory mapper... That is pretty typical combination, but will not help with these games.

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