msxdos2 question

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By PingPong

Prophet (3906)

PingPong's picture

02-03-2022, 18:41

hi, all.
i'm guessing why msx dos 2 need a cartridge while msx dos 1 not.
Is there a special reason?
is it feasible to have a msxdos2 all as as disk like msx dos1?

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By msd

Paragon (1479)

msd's picture

02-03-2022, 18:48

Msx-dos functions are part of the bios, bdos to be more precise. This means that for example reading a file is done by a function in rom which can be called my msx-dos but also by basic. To add the directory support and such the rom needs to be updated. That is why you need a cartridge for msx dos2 . For msx dos 1 the functions are already in the bios.

Well this is the short version . There are more details

By PingPong

Prophet (3906)

PingPong's picture

02-03-2022, 18:51

i've suspected this, but it was not enough to create a .bin file that would be loaded in a slot ram with all the new function instead of made a cart?

By msd

Paragon (1479)

msd's picture

02-03-2022, 20:09

Of course it could be done from ram , but then you would always have to boot using a disk first , directly going to basic would then not offer directory support etc.

By aoineko

Hero (540)

aoineko's picture

02-03-2022, 20:49

And it should be slow to have to copy several KB of BDOS to RAM at each startup.

By MsxKun

Paragon (1111)

MsxKun's picture

02-03-2022, 21:08

@msd: You always need some Diskrom with the BDOS routines.
You can't use DOS1 on a computer that doesn't have Diskrom. You can add external drive, and the external drive controller HAS the BDOS routines, not the MSX internal BIOS.
It's internal in some MSX like some Spectravideo.
The same for DOS1 or DOS2. DOS2 is internal on a TurboR. External on cartridge for use with SD cards and other stuff.

By MsxKun

Paragon (1111)

MsxKun's picture

02-03-2022, 21:09

PingPong wrote:

hi, all.
i'm guessing why msx dos 2 need a cartridge while msx dos 1 not.

BOTH need a cartridge.

By Briqunullus

Hero (563)

Briqunullus's picture

02-03-2022, 21:19

MsxKun wrote:

BOTH need a cartridge.

This is the correct answer. It's just easily overlooked in the case of msx dos 1.

By PingPong

Prophet (3906)

PingPong's picture

02-03-2022, 22:47

I remember my NMS8245 (msx2) booting msxdos1 without any cart. But it was msx2.
What's the difference?
Is only due that msx2 models with built in drives have also built in bios?

By PingPong

Prophet (3906)

PingPong's picture

02-03-2022, 22:49

PingPong wrote:

I remember my NMS8245 (msx2) booting msxdos1 without any cart. But it was msx2.
What's the difference?
Is only due that msx2 models with built in drives have also built in bios?

If is is, maybe should exists an msx1 with built-in disk bios.
But now i'm guessing... if i insert a DISK Cart on a msx2 with built in disk drive i will get two disk drives. Maybe with different bios all coexisting?

By Grauw

Ascended (10623)

Grauw's picture

03-03-2022, 00:00

PingPong wrote:

Is only due that msx2 models with built in drives have also built in bios?

Yes.

PingPong wrote:

If is is, maybe should exists an msx1 with built-in disk bios.

Any MSX1 with disk drive also has a DiskROM. For example the National CF-3300.

PingPong wrote:

But now i'm guessing... if i insert a DISK Cart on a msx2 with built in disk drive i will get two disk drives. Maybe with different bios all coexisting?

Yes, the Disk BIOS is designed to coexist. Otherwise you could not insert e.g. a Carnivore2 in a machine with a built in disk drive. DOS2 is not “special” in this regard, the same principle already applied to DOS1. Though I don’t know the exact rules for precedence, I presume the one with the highest kernel version gains control.

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