Why low interest in V9938 / MSX2+ Software?

Page 2/3
1 | | 3

By Grauw

Enlighted (7411)

Grauw's picture

10-08-2018, 12:20

Accumulator wrote:

Where is the MSX2+ guys?

At least one MSX2+ project is ongoing :).

V9990 has never been particularly popular so tbh it’s nice that it’s getting some attention… But yeah, MSX2+ is left on the way side. But then again there really aren’t many Turbo R projects either. I do think for a Turbo R project, making it to work on MSX2+ as well is very appealing because it increases the player base quite a bit.

MSX1 remains the most popular, I think because its limits mean the projects remain small and thus more likely to finish, plus in some countries MSX2 never really took off so there’s quite some people who have a strong affinity with the MSX1 (personally I’m an MSX2 guy :)).

NYYRIKKI wrote:

The amount of tools & the generally pretty confusing structure of YJK-modes may anyway be a reason why people don't like to use them.

Yeah… I like them, but haven’t figured out exactly how to draw for it.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1238)

Kai Magazine's picture

10-08-2018, 21:37

Highway fighter (2017) was designed for screen 10 (but it is also compatible with msx2 using screen 5). It also uses the turbo cpu of the panasonic 2+ in order to speed up load times and enable the use of more sound chips:

https://youtu.be/2-qPxFfbdCc

By ghost_jp

Expert (111)

ghost_jp's picture

11-08-2018, 02:13

In my opinion as a game developer, the specification of MSX2/2+ is just a very slow modern computer. Of course I never hate them, but I think its look and feel don't give a strong impression to ordinary people today. For them, it is just a similar looks game with a fewer objects and lower performance. Even if a programmer makes so much effort within the limitation of MSX2/2+, they don't always understand how great he or she does.

On the other hand, the specification of MSX(1) is quite different from the modern computers. It should be called classic. It can give a unique and fresh impression to the generation who doesn't know such a classic computing. We can often see some developers dare to reproduce classic look and feel on modern platform. I wonder that gives a proof on such classic platform; not only MSX but ZX, Amstrad or anything else... still have a fixed value to the audience.

In conclusion, a developer who likes modern look and feel, doesn't always have to choose MSX2/2+ as his or her platform. It's more rational to develop a game on modern platform. Someone else who loves classic style; including me, may choose MSX. I think that is also enough irrational. In short, the reason why low interest against V9938/58 is that the development on them is much more irrational for developers than on TMS9918.

Excuse me, of course I have a deep respect to the developer that still try on V9938/58 or V9990, such as Kai magazine.

By DarkSchneider

Paladin (754)

DarkSchneider's picture

11-08-2018, 10:05

Grauw wrote:

MSX1 remains the most popular, I think because its limits mean the projects remain small and thus more likely to finish

It's that. Sprites easier to create and handle, character mode with no need to worry about smooth scrolling that involves many things, 16 of 16 on screen colors (no palette). Working on MSX1 is much more direct with few possibilites of design variations from the technical POV.

By hit9918

Prophet (2777)

hit9918's picture

11-08-2018, 19:12

wolf_ wrote:

So you're likely to run into sprite problems on 2+ as well. No 2+-scrolling will fix that.

ironicaly the 2+ scrolling does fix the sprites.
in that the 2+ can have software sprites.

on the MSX2 the blitter copies the screen in the background. but because of this background work you cannot make software sprites even if you had enough cpu time, bizarre!

By DarkSchneider

Paladin (754)

DarkSchneider's picture

12-08-2018, 10:05

Hardware scroll + software sprites are not good companions.

By Sandy Brand

Expert (117)

Sandy Brand's picture

12-08-2018, 13:47

hit9918 wrote:
wolf_ wrote:

So you're likely to run into sprite problems on 2+ as well. No 2+-scrolling will fix that.

ironicaly the 2+ scrolling does fix the sprites.
in that the 2+ can have software sprites.

But not in the amounts that you can do something interesting, like say a horizontal shoot'em-up at 60 frames per second. Sad
Because that will only allow you to do some VDP commands during the V-blank (and perhaps a bit more if you allow for a HUD using screen-splits) during which you also have to 'repair' and 'draw' software sprites, while also copying background cells into the screen. That is not a lot.

And if you want to compromise, by lowering the frame rate, then the MSX 2+ scrolling registers don't help much because you won't have smooth scrolling anyways.

Let's face it: the V9958 was a very flawed upgrade from the V9938. Yes, it fixes some issues which, should have been part of the V9938 anyways (VDP command mutilation if you write into some registers, being able to perform VDP commands in screen 4, etc.) But the new screen modes don't give anything useful for game development.

What they should have done is provided more character-based screen modes with characters that have more colors and less restrictions. Even an 'emulation' of Screen 5 with 8 by 8 characters tiles would have done wonders because it would have reduced the amount of CPU time needed to drive the VDP.

By Accumulator

Supporter (16)

Accumulator's picture

12-08-2018, 23:25

Indeed Dolphin1...5 Wink,

9958 indeed!

By Accumulator

Supporter (16)

Accumulator's picture

12-08-2018, 23:32

@wolf,
agree with difficulty drawing.
But screen 10 is a sort of combination of 12 and 5 and in demoscene plenty of possibilities..
The games for msx2+ like f1 spirit has bad screens splits.. ugly and not timed perfectly.

By Manuel

Ascended (14683)

Manuel's picture

13-08-2018, 07:49

M-kid is a good example of what you can do with the MSX2+ screen modes for gaming.

Page 2/3
1 | | 3
My MSX profile