C64 'revival' press release

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By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

27-03-2004, 13:58

I don't talk MSX down, there's just some limitations to the system I don't like... I just think it's plain silly to say that MSX can do what Amiga can. That was great in the 90's for good-old-rivalry's sake (and at least I knew the truth at the time) but if we're now in 2004 and you're seriously considering making a remark like that, I think *you* should get your facts straight.
Hate to break it to you, but there are limitations in the Amiga which Amiga people don't like.
So what can Amiga do that MSX can't? Actually very little. If you leave out obvious technicalities like raw CPU speed, there really isn't much MSX can't do.
Can MSX do:
Digitization? Check
Multitasking? Check
Multilayer scrolling? Check
Demo effects? Check
Read from disk while music playing? Limited w/ floppydisks, and Full with other kinds of media.

Let's not talk about MSX' enhanced sprite capabilities, or its system architecture that makes it (uniquely so) easily expandable and easy to tinker with.

By Dementhor

Supporter (12)

Dementhor's picture

29-04-2004, 02:50

Well, being an "MSX Friend" so far (and waiting to get my first MSX ever Wink I've got a few novice questions comparing MSX to Amiga: where do I find any links to any decent 3D renders and/or 3D animations made on an MSX or 3D rendering packages? Are there any MSX applications comparable to PageStream (DTP), a WYSIWIG word processor, support for vector fonts, multiple code pages for fonts etc? Something like the Directory Opus for file management? How about web browsers/e-mail clients?Are there ANY productivity packages for the MSX at all? If MSX multitasks, what do I multitask with it (that is, is there any practical use for it)? Can I use an unexpanded MSX2 with a VGA monitor in 800x600 resolution? Can I use an MSX as an everyday computer? Because I can with the Amiga if I have to...
I really think comparing Amiga with MSX is a bit lame. Amiga's main advantage is a great OS supported by a grat chipset, while MSX's advantage is that it doesn't really need any OS (I mean modern OS with a GUI and a shell, OS level scripting and file types rather than just Basic with a few commands for copying files) - complex OSs can do great things, but they do crash; if you want to prevent it you need to implement things that require even more resources and CPU power... And even though this is thinkable with a Z80 (especially the eZ80), why bother? With many apps you can do just fine with simple task-switching because you just don't need the other apps tu RUN when you're not using them. In other words - simplicity is a great advantage when it's appreciated and used properly.

By Latok

msx guru (3686)

Latok's picture

29-04-2004, 09:52

Well, Dementhor, of course you are right to a certain level. But there indeed ARE 3D animations on MSX, there IS a great DTP, Dynamic Publisher, there IS a webbrowser, there are great file management programs, i.e. Multi Mente and there is much much more. I agree the Amiga has a great OS and a good chipset. MSX can do multitasking, but isn't suitable for it. But, as you state yourself, the MSX doesn't need it anyway. In my view, the MSX power lies in its simplicity indeed. And making apps and software for such a system is an art. We agree Tongue

I really hope you will continue your MSX quest, you'll have a lot of fun for sure.

By [D-Tail]

Ascended (8232)

[D-Tail]'s picture

29-04-2004, 10:43

But there indeed ARE 3D animations on MSX

Latok, I'm really sorry to say this, but you can't compare F-Nano2' to something like Amiga's Gloom.

there IS a great DTP, Dynamic Publisher

Dynamic Publisher vs. Kindword or something? Nah... Not really worth the comparison.

there IS a webbrowser

You mean that MSX1/16 color-FudeBrowzer-under-Uzix-thing? It'll only work well on a MSX Turbo R Sad Besides, configuring the internet settings is like *HELL* in Uzix. That is, when you don't have those 2 MSX Info Bladen from Totally Chaos/MSX Info team. I think it's even outdated when compared to the worst text-based browser under Linux or something like that... Sad

there are great file management programs, i.e. Multi Mente and there is much much more.

Finally, agreed! Multi Mente is quite a management program, but then again, it's nothing compared to Amiga's DosControl. But I agree with you when you say MM satisfies for MSX (again, preferably a MSX Turbo R).

I agree the Amiga has a great OS and a good chipset. MSX can do multitasking, but isn't suitable for it. But, as you state yourself, the MSX doesn't need it anyway. In my view, the MSX power lies in its simplicity indeed. And making apps and software for such a system is an art. We agree Tongue

That's how I like to hear it! Totally agree with this. As you know, the MAF (MSX Affiliates Forum) has been down for some months (reason for me to profile me here Wink), but I had a post there concerning my exact definition to what MSX should be, and to what extent it should be used. Maybe (if he's reading this), FiXato can recover my post and dump it into this thread...

To summarize these things:
- MSX isn't meant for 3D apps/games (although F-Nano2' is *addictive*!)
- MSX isn't meant for WYSIWYG DTP programs
- MSX isn't meant for a multitasking OS (well, maybe MSX Turbo R is meant for it Smile)
- MSX isn't meant for browsing the World Wide Web
Although it's nice to see that those things are possible, actually.

- MSX is meant for playing relatively simple, yet addictive games on it
- MSX is meant for showing demos with stunning effects on this 1983-1991-dated machine
- MSX is meant for expressing one's creativity
- Don't forget: MSX is a hobby, something that you'll do in your own spare time (well, not always Wink)!

Well, this was just my opinion in a brief summary Wink

By Latok

msx guru (3686)

Latok's picture

29-04-2004, 11:03

Well, I have a Wolfenstein 3D maze like which runs on my V9990 Wink But I was also referring to several MSX2 Stationdemo's which show 3D vectorgfx models etc. Anyhow, I agree with you as well Smile......

I do also wonder if other systems are as easy to program as MSX, though. The Z80 CPU, the VDP, it's all pretty understandable. Is that the same level as Commodore (64 or Amiga)? I have the feeling it isn't. And then we're not even talking about the MSX-BASIC, which is a true gem, I think.

By Dementhor

Supporter (12)

Dementhor's picture

29-04-2004, 22:27

Well, I'm glad to hear applications do exist. Could soemeone please post some links, preferably to sites with screenshots? All I've been able to find so far are games and sites in Japanese or Spanish. And I've been reserching this for a LONG time. Besides being just interested (yes, I'm definitely going to get an MSX computer — even though there are practically none where I come from — so I'll need software) I'm trying to compile an MSX section for my portal www.sweb.cz/siliconcave/. Are there any places where apps can be downloaded? Any web MSX sites dealing with office apps? I don't want to use my MSX just for games when it arrives...

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9769)

wolf_'s picture

29-04-2004, 22:32

hey, a Czech user..! Can't remember seeing a CZ here on MRC before ..

By Dementhor

Supporter (12)

Dementhor's picture

29-04-2004, 22:37

Yea, the closest we got to the MSX here was the Sharp MZ-800, and that's just never been close enough... ;-)

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

29-04-2004, 23:03

Not too long ago I was contacted by a Czech MSX user who had a FENNER SPC-800 and was looking for a TMS9918 replacement.

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9769)

wolf_'s picture

29-04-2004, 23:09

dementhor, do you know the c64 group 'Unreal' ? I speak with them on IRC regulary.. they're from CZ too..

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