Game oriented machines of '80

Prophet (3586)

22-04-2017, 18:36

I found the Amstrad CPC to be the better machine for colourfull games. Times better than MSX1, C64, ZX.
the CPC lacks game oriented features that were on msx, c64 (hw assistance), however the quality of games was high.

thinking about msx2, i suspect that because of msx2 got hw sprites, programmers were too much oriented to use those instead of using sw ones. But because hw sprites are somewhat limited the result was not always optimal.

For example, Rastan had poorly monochromatic sprites, but what if sprites were done like inferno?
this kind of game does not have to scroll horizontally so one can use vdp to handle sw sprites in a more colourful way.

What do you think? If msx2 was programmed like the CPC (that has to manage 16K of Video RAM entirely via CPU and no blitter) the overall quality of games could have been better?

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Par ARTRAG

Enlighted (6462)

22-04-2017, 19:07

What about a patch for Rastan to improve enemies?

Par Wlcracks

Champion (431)

22-04-2017, 20:29

Who cares? All systems had(have) there advantages and disadvantages. Just get them all!

Par st1mpy

Hero (604)

22-04-2017, 20:30

sorry I don't mean to be funny but which games are good on the Amstrad?

Par PingPong

Prophet (3586)

22-04-2017, 21:08

st1mpy wrote:

sorry I don't mean to be funny but which games are good on the Amstrad?

What does it mean good?
Check for example phantom II, monochromatic on ZX, MSX1, C64. Colored on CPC. And this is one example.
If you want, check the corresponding CPC version of ZX ported games, there are improved games, others that are straight from zx so identical, the former are graphically good.

Par PingPong

Prophet (3586)

22-04-2017, 21:09

ARTRAG wrote:

What about a patch for Rastan to improve enemies?

Do you mean classic style -> using hw sprites OR
using sw ones except for main charater?

Par JohnHassink

Ambassador (5483)

22-04-2017, 21:27

Apart from more efficient use of the sprites, Rastan could also do well with a fix for the slowdowns and optionally upgrading the music to support OPLL (the latter of which could be done in different ways, all with varying labour intensivity and quality, which is a trade-off to consider).

Par PingPong

Prophet (3586)

22-04-2017, 22:40

i think my point is a little misunderstod. What i mean is that there are games where for lazyness hw sprites were used but they are in general a limited solution ed even on msx2 are more limited. So my idea is to underline if there are situations where a less hw sprites oriented approach would be doable.
I thinking to Pointeless Fight for example. No hw sprites, only sw ones and the result is somewhat excellent.

I would propose to list other examples of games in the '80 if you think there were a good alternative to hw sprites.

Par Louthrax

Prophet (2322)

22-04-2017, 22:55

Mmmm, my guess is that for shmups like Aleste that approach would have been way too slow (too many VDP commands to issue). The Ys or Xak series were using software sprites (also scrolling), but you can't say the animation is really smooth. Trying to remember an action game with SW sprites and smooth animation but nothing has come to my mind yet...

Par sd_snatcher

Prophet (3401)

23-04-2017, 01:51

Rastan Saga isn't a good example. It's a terribly lazy port of the Sega Master System's Rastan, as you can se here. They even ripped the FM soundtrack. The background graphics are the same, and they could have ported the sprites to 3-color-per-line as the majority of MSX2 games use, because the Master system only supports eight 8x16 sprites per scanline (IOW: 64 sprite pixels/scanline), and the MSX2 supports four 3-color-per-line 16x16 sprites per scanline (IOW, also 64 sprite pixels/scanline).

A similar lazy port from the SMS to the MSX2 was OutRun, as you can se here and here.

@Louthrax

Andorogynus uses the blitter for many of the "sprites" on the screen. And Sylviana uses only the blitter for all the "sprites".

Quote:

What about a patch for Rastan to improve enemies?

Instead of that, I would prefer to re-port the Master System Rastan game. :)

EDIT: Oh, yes: Bombaman is an action game that uses only the blitter for all the "sprites".

Par gdx

Prophet (3906)

23-04-2017, 02:35

PingPong wrote:

If msx2 was programmed like the CPC (that has to manage 16K of Video RAM entirely via CPU and no blitter) the overall quality of games could have been better?

No. The overall quality of games could have been better on MSX2 if the VDP was faster or if the sprites were more advanced. Shared memory would have been complicated to manage with slots and Memory mapper on MSX. This gives an advantage rarely to make a game.

Also on MSX2 the vertical scroll function is missing. That is what most lacks in fact.