Zemmix FPGA MSX by 8bits4ever

Ascended (8734)

10-12-2017, 18:49

Nice design . And good that these machines stay available with new batches from various sources. Really shows the power of open source & open hardware.

Par wolf_

Ambassador_ (9794)

10-12-2017, 19:58

Nice. So, I may have missed any discussions going on about this machine, perhaps what's below has already been asked before.

Questions:
1) Can the FPGA (and thus the MSX-specs) be programmed/accessed from e.g. a game (on SD or cartridge)
2) If so: can the factory FPGA-code of this Zemmix be reset from the machine itself (or some boot-SD) in case it's turned into a brick due to faulty FPGA-code?

Par Grauw

Ascended (8734)

10-12-2017, 20:59

It’s pretty much identical to a 1chipMSX, like all Zemmix Neos.

1) In theory yes, in practice no. I wouldn’t allow such a program on my OCM, too scary that it might brick it, or even cause hardware failure, and too annoying that I would have to reprogram the firmware back to normalcy afterwards. Software developers shouldn’t nilly willy tamper with my FPGA. Besides, we’re not exactly swimming in developers with VHDL coding experience.

2) If you brick it you need a USB Blaster to recover.

Par wyrdwad

Paladin (824)

10-12-2017, 21:22

One other question that I didn't see addressed anywhere: can an external floppy drive be hooked up to it, in order to play games off of floppy disk? I know you can always emulate the floppy experience, but you can emulate cartridges and cassettes too -- there's just something oddly satisfying about using real floppy disks, and it would be nice to have the option to use the many I've got.

-Tom

Par Grauw

Ascended (8734)

10-12-2017, 21:31

External FDD interface should work like on any other MSX. Just like Sunrise IDE, MegaFlashROM SCC+ SD, etc. which use the same standard extension system.

Par syn

Paragon (1939)

10-12-2017, 23:00

Great news!

Par gdx

Prophet (3312)

10-12-2017, 23:43

Oh, a Zemmix Neos clone from Europe!
It may be nicer to round some corners at the front.

Par KdL

Paragon (1263)

11-12-2017, 07:36

Is there an improved noise filter or is the audio signal not so good as all the other Zemmix Neo?

https://twitter.com/ocm_pld_news/status/910502760533065730

Par gdx

Prophet (3312)

11-12-2017, 09:49

Neo Zemmix use a filter? I thought that all OCMs did not use filter nor mixer.

Par Grauw

Ascended (8734)

11-12-2017, 10:23

I think the audio issue is about the noise floor (interference from non-audio signals), this can’t really be filtered I think, rather the solution is in the board layout. Might be tricky to deal with.

Par Meits

Scribe (5745)

11-12-2017, 11:51

I wonder if it would be a solution to cut the audio rails en put high quality shielded audio cables far away from the cause of interference in its stead. I once bought an OCM with the expectation to be rid of these audio issues. I was very disappointed

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

11-12-2017, 12:21

Seems it has joystick ports? What about USB?

Par Colemu

Hero (531)

11-12-2017, 13:58

@ Kdl

Yeh, that noise looks quite bad.

I'd agree that it's down to the board design (audio traces too close to IO signals). Turbo-R has similar problem, the IO noise interference on that comes from it's FM circuit.

Par KdL

Paragon (1263)

11-12-2017, 14:13

For lack of time I have not yet compared the two PCB and I simply did this test using the cables of OCM on Zemmix Neo. So, yes, each of your statements could be correct.

Par Grauw

Ascended (8734)

11-12-2017, 14:44

@Samor The hardware has USB but the FPGA does nothing with it (no free space remaining).

Well, not entirely, if you have a PS/2 compatible mouse you can connect it to the USB port without a need for an adapter plug. But USB mice and keyboards don't work.

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

12-12-2017, 14:26

Thanks Grauw.

When I was reading about the video output I realized I don't even have any screen accepting VGA anymore... I've got the other ones covered though...

Par Grauw

Ascended (8734)

12-12-2017, 17:19

If one of your screens has a DVI-I input (not DVI-D) you should be able to feed it VGA with an adapter plug.

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

13-12-2017, 01:31

no, but s-video isn't so bad either.

It should be able to boot DOS2 from an SD card, right?

Par Grauw

Ascended (8734)

13-12-2017, 01:32

Yes, for sure.

Par syn

Paragon (1939)

13-12-2017, 13:13

Hmm I was interested in getting a zemmix neo clone from 8bits4ever. How big is the noise problem in reality?

Par Parn

Champion (484)

15-12-2017, 11:57

It is quite noisy, but I've seen worse, and all sound chips are well balanced and sound clear. There's an option for balanced audio output which should mitigate most of the problem, but I haven't been able to test it yet. I got the cable, though.

Edit: I have a Brazilian Zemmix Neo. Since it is so similar to the Korean one, I bet it sounds just as bad. I've heard OCM is also bad, but not quite. Haven't listened to it myself.

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

15-12-2017, 13:46

Is it possible to record a sample?

Par giuseve

Paladin (735)

15-12-2017, 18:25

Ok,
I have to stop dreaming now.
I still remember the last ZemmixNeo from Brazil. I was one of the first subscribers for it and after about 1 year I discovered they would never ship ZemmixNeo to Italy.

Now this... Yes, it is fantastic. But ...
how many months would it necessary to wait?
at which price considering that it would be made in spain?
More news about it?

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

15-12-2017, 18:50

I emailed them and they told me they expected the price to be around 130 euros (not final), and hope to have the product in their store by the end of this month.
Best email them too if interested

Par Haze

Expert (99)

15-12-2017, 19:18

Samor, how did you contact them? I've tried using the contact form on their website, to show interest as well, but haven't heard back from them.

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

15-12-2017, 19:27

That's exactly what I used as well.

Par Parn

Champion (484)

16-12-2017, 09:05

Samor wrote:

Is it possible to record a sample?

Yes, I intend to do that.

Par Lord_Zett

Paladin (807)

17-12-2017, 13:19

i hoped that there was a more smaller design size like a large cardrige. just one slot done

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

17-12-2017, 19:16

The case closely matches the form of the zemmix neo board.
They quite literally cut the corners on the original zemmix neo case. It's not gonna get any smaller.
Also, seems the one in the pictures was auctioned on ebay.

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

17-12-2017, 20:27

The site was updated with a product listing:
https://www.8bits4ever.net/product-page/zemmix-fpga-msx

Not yet in stock. Price listed is 140 euros.

Par Lord_Zett

Paladin (807)

17-12-2017, 20:38

yeah i love the 3d printed case.

Par Parn

Champion (484)

19-12-2017, 13:06

Lord_Zett wrote:

i hoped that there was a more smaller design size like a large cardrige. just one slot done

Like the OCM? It can be a bit unwieldly when you have cartridges as big and heavy as the unit itself.

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

19-12-2017, 13:35

Going by the picture with the keyboard, it seems in terms of size the zemmix sits somewhere between a dreamcast and a playstation.
Considering it was originally a console, that seems fitting

Par DarkSchneider

Paladin (899)

20-12-2017, 12:56

Looks very well. With a price of 140€ and being within Spain the total cost could be about 150€ delivery included without the damn customs. I'll take one if available sometime.

Par syn

Paragon (1939)

20-12-2017, 13:33

yeah price is also better than the korean and brazilian zemmix neos. I am definitely getting one.

I do hope the case is sturdy enough though because its 3D printed. (since most ppl put some pressure on the case when inserting/removing cartridges) but I have no doubt this will be tested

Par 8bits4ever

Resident (41)

20-12-2017, 14:10

Hey guys/gals! Thanks for your interest on the project!

A small update: If everything goes as planned we will be having a few units in stock by January.
There will be uncased fully functional Zemmix boards (cheapest option) and optionally you could add a low resolution or high resolution 3D printed case to it. The high resolution case will be expensive due the printing time (20hrs for one case) so we cannot deliver many of these (maybe 3-4 a week only); the low res cases will be affordable as they print quick.
Both, low and high res cases, are sturdy enough to resist the inserting/removing of cartridges. We will provide the .stl files for people who has access to 3D printers and like to print the case themselves (so they can just buy the Zemmix board).
Also we will offer the option of including PSU and the Altera USB Blaster programmer.

If you have any questions/suggestions dont hesitate to contact us through our website. We do our best to answer all emails.

Cheers!

Par Robby

Master (182)

21-12-2017, 15:52

Thanks for the update!
Great that you will provide people with the available stl files. Keep up the good work.

Par hamlet

Scribe (2942)

21-12-2017, 21:28

Sounds great!The first european MSX again since?

Par DarkSchneider

Paladin (899)

22-01-2018, 13:00

It is already available on the shop. Purchased the full pack with case, PSU and programmer. With this I have MSX for a long long time.

Par syn

Paragon (1939)

22-01-2018, 15:29

Thats pre-order though right? Since it still mentions coming soon.

Anyway great news nevertheless

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

22-01-2018, 15:56

Doesn't say "coming soon" anymore here.
Ordered one as well, ending my 10 year break from MSX hw ;-)

Par syn

Paragon (1939)

22-01-2018, 16:37

Oh nice, probably some cached page that I was looking at.

Par edmsxtrek

Supporter (1)

24-01-2018, 00:21

I'm interested in the full version including PSU and the Altera USB Blaster programmer.
About the box I am especially interested in being robust and safe.
Greetings and waiting.

Par Pencioner

Paragon (1077)

24-01-2018, 01:43

there's a link in the newspost at top - you have to order the stuff from the store. but as far as i have seen today, the altera blasters are over. though blaster is not a rarity

Par 8bits4ever

Resident (41)

24-01-2018, 10:53

Hello people! We've received your (many) orders in the last two days. Now the Zemmix status in our shop is back to "Out of Stock" until we delivered the ones already sold. These units should ship within the next 10 days or so; remember we need to assemble and test them before shipping.

Cheers!

Par Haze

Expert (99)

26-01-2018, 15:33

Oh no! I've missed the first batch? I don't remember getting an update via de mailinglist or such!

I hope there will be another batch, once you've completed the first units.

It sounds like it is already a great success!

Par giuseve

Paladin (735)

27-01-2018, 15:26

It must be the fate...
First ZEMMIX neo from brasil delayed for sending problems
Now ZEMMIX from 8bit4ever missed due to hospital surgery, the same 4 days of the 1st batch.
Maybe it is my destiny

Par Pencioner

Paragon (1077)

27-01-2018, 16:43

@ guiseve it is not last chance i suppose with that high demand 8bits4ever will definitely produce more

Par Pencioner

Paragon (1077)

30-01-2018, 18:10

I would like to know if there's any manual available for this Zemmix? Or there's no difference and it is fine to look for Zemmix manual of any revision?

Par Grauw

Ascended (8734)

30-01-2018, 18:34

Or 1chipMSX manual... mostly the same hardware.

Par Pencioner

Paragon (1077)

30-01-2018, 20:44

Thanks. Though i found that there were an english manual for Zemmix Neo but the link is broken (not the link itself, but the page doesn't contain any download link, looks like a page was rendered incorrectly)

UPD: With some googling i have found post on brazilian forum with direct link to the file: Manual-ZemmixNEO-EN.pdf

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

31-01-2018, 08:00

Pencioner wrote:

I would like to know if there's any manual available for this Zemmix? Or there's no difference and it is fine to look for Zemmix manual of any revision?

There is one, you get the link when you order it.
I don't think there are a lot of differences, it seems to be based on the other one.

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

05-02-2018, 12:00

@Haze, @giuseve
Just got a mail that they have more machines available for order.

Par hamlet

Scribe (2942)

05-02-2018, 12:23

Received a mail that the first batch has been shipped.

Par pceworld

Rookie (19)

05-02-2018, 12:25

just order one from this site ^_^

Par Haze

Expert (99)

05-02-2018, 14:37

@Samor thanks for the heads up! I saw your message before I saw the mail.

Par Pencioner

Paragon (1077)

05-02-2018, 14:58

Yes, the first batch is on the way and people who missed it can order again

Par syn

Paragon (1939)

05-02-2018, 23:36

HAHAHA already showing sold out again for me

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

07-02-2018, 20:46

Did anyone receive his/hers yet? I'd just like to know as PostNL seems to be increasingly unreliable and simply drop off packages at nearby delivery points without leaving a notification at all.

Par hamlet

Scribe (2942)

07-02-2018, 21:26

Well, you can't track and trace your package. You should have received a tracking number via mail.
BTW Nice, that you get a 'real' MSX again!

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

07-02-2018, 21:38

Yes, I have the tracking number, and it's probably still in Spain if the information is correct.
I just had some bad experiences with PostNL (Dutch postal service) recently so I'm a bit more cautious than usual.... especially since this isn't some 10 euro package

And thanks, normally things should work out and I'm happy to get back into MSX hardware
The Goonies are good enough to be tested in a Zemmix ;-)

Par Pencioner

Paragon (1077)

07-02-2018, 21:58

I just think that the Spanish post is kind of slowpoke.

Par hamlet

Scribe (2942)

07-02-2018, 22:15

Clap hand with the German one. Lazy,arrogant and slow.
And stupid.
Bought items online last week:
Fifteen years away from Amazone: Here is what you had in your shopping cart FIFTEEN YEARS ago.
Fifteen seconds away from DHL.de. We´re sorry, we´d locked you out. Of course we´d forget everything you entered.

Par Pencioner

Paragon (1077)

07-02-2018, 22:47

Hm, had no issues with Swedish Postnord - but it's not cheap if you send the parcel

Par DarkSchneider

Paladin (899)

09-02-2018, 08:54

Received.

Good device, PSU is powerful enough, programmer not used yet (fortunately). Firmware upgraded and no problem. The case is good. All well attached, no sound of loose pieces.

I only would make the cartridge slots a bit wider. The cartridge is attached fine, very fine indeed, so for extracting it would be good to have some horizontal room for moving it, you have to extract it in only vertical movement, pulling with force. Maybe having an extra half centimeter on each side could be good to allow some cartridge movement for extracting.

Now I have to test the joy ports and other video outputs (only used the VGA and audio L/R), but I think they will work.

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

09-02-2018, 13:40

Sounds good.
So the default firmware is older, from the original OCM or something?

Par DarkSchneider

Paladin (899)

10-02-2018, 17:44

Samor wrote:

Sounds good.
So the default firmware is older, from the original OCM or something?

Even noticed, I directly updated the firmware with the one from the url you get on your email. Used the korean one, the non-br one, and works fine.

Par hamlet

Scribe (2942)

10-02-2018, 18:36

Mine arrived today. When weather is fine I will post some photos tomorrow.

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

11-02-2018, 13:15

Mine arrived as well
Seems to be working just fine. I am positively surprised by the case, It's actually nicer than I expected from the images.
I agree though with DarkSchneider that the space around the slots is very tight.
For some reason my keyboard didn't work (even though it's connected through ps/2 on pc) but a spare one did.

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

11-02-2018, 15:51

*edit* I was having problems booting a lot of games but it seems I have to hold RIGHT ctrl on boot, not the left one...

just to be sure though: I have partitioned an 8GB SDHC card as 2GB FAT (using DISKPART)... I wasn't able to use the HP formatter or SD Card Formatter tools as those only support a max size partition. Should this be perfectly fine or is it recommended to get a "true" 1/2GB SD card?

Par syn

Paragon (1939)

11-02-2018, 15:43

Try Romload http://www.tni.nl/products/romload.html
or perhaps SofaROM (I never used that).

Par hamlet

Scribe (2942)

11-02-2018, 18:52

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

11-02-2018, 19:05

Does yours not have a zemmix logo on it?
Either way, nice pictures

Par hamlet

Scribe (2942)

11-02-2018, 19:23

There should be a logo?
I like the build very much, although I'm afraid to break it when releasing a cartridge. As DarkSchneider wrote, it is very hard to extract a cart from the slots.

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

11-02-2018, 19:27

Yeah it is, but I don't think it would break easily.

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

11-02-2018, 23:02

syn wrote:

Try Romload http://www.tni.nl/products/romload.html
or perhaps SofaROM (I never used that).

Thanks, with loadrom (the one I already used) I still think it's kind of weird that right now I can get, say, salamander and nemesis 2 started but f1 spirit refuses... seems a bit random.

Par syn

Paragon (1939)

11-02-2018, 23:39

Afaik loadrom loads roms into your ram instead of the scc+ mapper and it has some problems afaik and that is the main difference between loadrom and romload.

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

14-02-2018, 18:20

Grauw wrote:

I think the audio issue is about the noise floor (interference from non-audio signals), this can’t really be filtered I think, rather the solution is in the board layout. Might be tricky to deal with.

I can hear some interference with my unit as well. Without having heard the others, I bet it's the same.

I must say I quite like the device though.
It's a shame my normal keyboard doesn't work on it (it's definitely ps/2 compatible but the lights blink when I plug it into the Zemmix). Fortunately I had a spare one that does.
I found a monitor with VGA to use as well and at the Nijmegen fair I bought a joystick and mouse so I think I have a pretty complete setup this way.

Par Haze

Expert (99)

26-02-2018, 23:03

I've got my PCBs in as well! Can't wait to test them!

I don't have any cases though, as unfortunately @8bits4ever was out at the time. But I did get the links everyone mentioned, along with the STL files, for 3D printing. Seeing as how multiple people here mentioned "tight fitting" cartridge slots, would it be possible to edit those files, before sending them off to get 3D printed? And which changes would be recommended? (wider?)

I'm kind of new to this whole world of 3D printing your own materials.

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

27-02-2018, 12:27

Congrats

If at all possible, improvements would be a slightly wider slot opening and a slot flap.

I can't help you though, this is the first 3D printed product I've ever had too.

Par hamlet

Scribe (2942)

03-03-2018, 18:35

I finally found my perfect keyboard for the Zemmix.

Although my old IBM M did work via the PS/2 connector. I was lokking for some smaller mechanical keyboard. I found this Blackwidow, witch is connected via a active USB-PS/2 adaptor. I'm happy.

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

03-03-2018, 19:12

Nice! And I see you made some new pictures as well.
Since I found out KdL implemented space via windows key I'm perfectly happy with the keyboard I use for it.

Par stefA

Rookie (26)

04-03-2018, 22:17

Mine arrived and tested: really cool!
I’m just trying to improve colors with VGA output: white is a bit yellowish... maybe tha cable, maybe the monitor but I’m still not able to get satisfactory results... I’ll try some play little more with my configuration.
Anyway nice job 8bits4ever!

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

05-03-2018, 09:46

I get yellow-ish colours (sometimes) when using the scanline generator.
Seems to be the monitor misinterpreting the signal or something (it tries to be "smart" with its brightness settings).
Resetting the Zemmix or turning the monitor off/on helps.

Par rderooy

Paladin (682)

05-03-2018, 11:54

8bits4ever is offering one on ebay, including psu and altera programmer. Current price stands at 25 Euro + 20 shipping

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Zemmix-Neo-FPGA-based-fully-compati...

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

08-03-2018, 19:05

Hm.. today mine suddenly won't boot from the SD card... I tried reinserting on the fly as KdL suggests, but nothing happens, it just boots to basic but dip switch 8 is really on....
when I type "FILES" I get "Illegal Function Call"
...I tried a different SD card but nothing is happening... what should I do?

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

12-03-2018, 16:08

....and now it works again, but I'm not sure why/how.

Just to be sure I flashed OCM-PLD Pack v3.5 on it (I hadn't flashed it so far). Fingers crossed that everything stays ok now

Some other things I noticed while using it (not meant as criticism, just findings):

- Interference (in the video signal) can change a lot depending on the used cables (both the audio and video cables). I've found a setup that works well for me.

- I'm not sure how much this differs between MSX machines, but certain colours seem to be a little different from what I'm used to, e.g. the floor in the beginning of Metal Gear 2 looks more purple than I've seen on other MSX machines (it's normally dark grey). I have only tested VGA output on one particular monitor though, and did not try s-video and/or composite yet.

- In some instances (aside from the regular interference that was mentioned before by several people) I can hear a high-pitched noise playing alongside the PSG (PSG only, not noticeable with SCC or fmpac), kind of like a hihat on a low bitrate mp3. You actually have to listen quite closely to notice it at all.

I really like the machine though, but I was a bit worried when the SD kept failing for a while... I hope that won't happen again (or that I discover a surefire way to fix it whenever it happens).

Par KdL

Paragon (1263)

16-03-2018, 16:04

Hi Samor, thanks for these notes. VGA signal is intended for a CRT monitor and not for a LCD monitor, therefore the signal should be very nice with an old monitor.

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

17-03-2018, 13:57

That looks nice and sharp.
I haven't been able to get "perfect pixel" on my monitor but I got pretty close. The "auto" function makes a mess of it so I had to tune manually. The scanline generator actually helps "hiding" the blurry pixels a bit, it looks a lot better when it's on.

Par KdL

Paragon (1263)

17-03-2018, 17:58

Up to OCM-PLD v3.5 the VGA signal was not centered in the LCD screen range but it will be ok from the next release. The auto-sync does not work because the internal oscillator of OCM is at 21 MHz instead of 25 MHz.

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

17-03-2018, 18:41

Looking forward to it

Par rderooy

Paladin (682)

23-03-2018, 12:49

Someone from Spain is offering a Zemmix Neo in transparent "case" (plexiglass top and bottom only) with a white PCB on ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Zemmix-Neo-MSX2-FPGA-computer/25351...

It is listed as new. The seller is "retronicuser", Is this another zemmix clone by 8bits4ever, or is someone else producing clones?

Par Pencioner

Paragon (1077)

23-03-2018, 21:33

Seller has other FPGA stuff on sale so i suppose it is not 8bits4ever

Par fubukimaru

Rookie (31)

27-03-2018, 12:31

They are different sellers. There is another Spain based user that makes Zemmix clones .

It's in spanish, but the makers are these guys: http://retrowiki.es/viewtopic.php?t=200033116

Par Pencioner

Paragon (1077)

28-03-2018, 18:49

got this Deltaco keyboard finally, tested, now i'm being completely satisfied and happy with it, it can keep 8 to 10 simultaneous keypresses on USB with Zemmix with no issues (and of course passes the Nemesis test flawlessly)

Par hamlet

Scribe (2942)

28-03-2018, 20:07

Ahhh, that looks nice with those red keys and all the lava.

Par Haze

Expert (99)

28-03-2018, 21:58

Orders are currently open again, right now: https://www.8bits4ever.net/product-page/zemmix-fpga-msx

Par mariocavalcanti

Expert (80)

29-03-2018, 18:01

Haze wrote:

Orders are currently open again, right now: https://www.8bits4ever.net/product-page/zemmix-fpga-msx

Good news!

Par giuseve

Paladin (735)

30-03-2018, 22:52

Yess, I finally bought one.
Now I have to find the best way to use it.
Can anyone help me?
1) I got an Samasung syncmaster S23b350. Does someone know if it works fine with zemmix? I know CRT is best....
2) I'd like to use SOFARUN with SOFAROM. Should I use 1 Mb ESE-MegaRAM or 1 Mb ESE-RAM SCC+??? What are the differences?
3) Does someone know if my Logitech Cordless desktop EX110 shoul work fine on PS2 and or USB?

Regards and thanks in advance

Par Grauw

Ascended (8734)

31-03-2018, 00:10

1. Zemmix Neo has VGA output, it seems that monitor has a VGA input, so that should be fine.

2. I think ESE-MegaRAM is for non-SCC mappers and ESE-RAM SCC+ is for Konami SCC games.

3. Since the keyboard specs say it supports PS/2, yes it should work.

You’re pretty lucky with the keyboard; Zemmix Neo only supports PS/2, and modern keyboards generally do not support it. The Zemmix Neo’s USB port has a built-in passive PS/2 adapter, so if the keyboard specs explicitly say it supports PS/2 you can connect it to the USB ports as well. But the Zemmix Neo’s USB port has no real USB functions (due to lack of space on the FPGA). So the options are to find an old keyboard which does or buy an active USB to PS/2 converter.

Par giuseve

Paladin (735)

22-04-2018, 08:24

When I bought it only naked version was available. Now that I am looking to print STL I discover that it would be cost more than 90euros. Can someone suggest me a cheaper way to get a case for my brand new zemmix?

Par rderooy

Paladin (682)

22-04-2018, 11:01

You could do a top and bottom Plexiglas only like this one https://www.msx.org/wiki/Zemmix_Neo#Carmeloco_.2F_ManuFerHi_...

Or go to your local DIY store, buy some plywood and get creative :-) Or maybe you could create a case out of legos... Like a retro style MSX computer case.

Par hamlet

Scribe (2942)

22-04-2018, 12:48

Ys, build your own is much more fun, than spending 90€.

Par sdsnatcher73

Paladin (799)

22-04-2018, 20:49

Samor wrote:

That looks nice and sharp.
I haven't been able to get "perfect pixel" on my monitor but I got pretty close. The "auto" function makes a mess of it so I had to tune manually. The scanline generator actually helps "hiding" the blurry pixels a bit, it looks a lot better when it's on.

I had this as well with just about any LCD screen. It's the pre-processing and scaling that causes this. Here is what OCM looks like over S-Video on a JVC CRT broadcast monitor:

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

28-04-2018, 22:59

Another thing I noticed is that the colours are sometimes slightly off... I don't know what the cause is (could be the monitor), maybe someone here has an idea:

This is an image from the pixel art collection; as you can see, the colours on the tires are somewhat purple whereas I'd normally expect them to be gray. Any ideas?

Par Pencioner

Paragon (1077)

29-04-2018, 00:00

I have noticed very weird things from RGB and VGA output on my Zemmix Neo from this new batch from 8bits4ever, i'll try to find time to take photos or small videos to see if somebody else has issues like mine. Those are not palette-related. Though, currently i use s-video output because of those issues with rgb and vga but it has somehow different palette (more blueish) than rgb. rgb itself are more yellowish than regular MSX (i use Sony Trinitron tube so it is definitely not because of solor profile of LCD monitor though). So i have a gut feeling that video-output circuitry has some weaknesses. Or maybe only my one has some trouble, can't figure out yet

Par Grauw

Ascended (8734)

29-04-2018, 00:33

SDTV RGB uses the Rec.601 colour space, I think the one used for VGA signals is different, in other words they have a different gamma. Also your monitor may have different settings for VGA input, check its calibration menu…

Btw KdL was mentioning on twitter that he was doing something with the aspect ratio, although I haven’t understood what exactly… awaiting the update :D.

Par Pencioner

Paragon (1077)

29-04-2018, 01:36

Grauw wrote:

Also your monitor may have different settings for VGA input, check its calibration menu…

Unfortunately... this is one is from product line where were ones with RGB but it has no RGB - though it has all the PCBs for it inside. The missing components were soldered and SCART female connector was added But the RGB part of service menu menu is missing of course, because for menu it will need at least to change the ROM with firmware, and i have neither stuff for flash chips nor any experience of this kind... so until i really-really badly need it, i will not touch it. Btw with its default calibration it has proper colors when i connect it to Wavy or A1WS or YIS503IIIR

But the issues are the same with RGB on Sony and VGA which i connect to the NEC EA193Mi so i suppose it is not related to the monitor, anyway.

Par Pencioner

Paragon (1077)

29-04-2018, 11:15

OK, here we go

Here's how is it with S-Video

Here's how is it with RGB...

...and with VGA (scanlines, but the same thing happens without scanlines too)

The actual videos (from where i picked up those screenshots):
S-Video, tube
RGB, tube
VGA, LCD, scanlines
VGA, LCD, no scanlines

The image doesn't depend on is it original firmware or KdL firmare. Moreover, if f.e. you don't get off the s-video cable while connect RGB/VGA - the image gets really distorted colors - lots of red (so while becomes nice pink btw). I wonder if it is something with my Zemmix or somebody else has similar problems?

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

29-04-2018, 11:54

no, I just have the colours that are somewhat different.
I have yet to try what s-video looks like.

Par Pencioner

Paragon (1077)

29-04-2018, 12:09

OK so if nobody else has those issues then i will get in contact with 8bits4ever because it looks like some issue with only my Zemmix...

Par sdsnatcher73

Paladin (799)

29-04-2018, 13:47

My Zemmix is still in production so cannot give any feedback het. But it sure looks like an issue in the output circuitry on your model. I would get in touch with them.

Par sdsnatcher73

Paladin (799)

29-04-2018, 15:52

Samor wrote:

Another thing I noticed is that the colours are sometimes slightly off... I don't know what the cause is (could be the monitor), maybe someone here has an idea:

This is an image from the pixel art collection; as you can see, the colours on the tires are somewhat purple whereas I'd normally expect them to be gray. Any ideas?

Which image is this? I can check how it looks on OCM over VGA/S-video...

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

29-04-2018, 18:13

I got it from here: http://frs.badcoffee.info/MSXart.html

It's in the vol.1 zip, called "BERGER.SC7" (in the folder SCR7\Authors\FLY-DUCK),
however here is a direct link to the file as well:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!At2URH9aT-e6iop3eErOFIXPB0lwew

Par sdsnatcher73

Paladin (799)

29-04-2018, 21:16

Oke colors are definitely off. Here is output from OCM:

S-Video to CRT:

VGA to CRT:

Do you have another monitor to test on?? At this moment OCM is all I got to test (I have ordered a Zemmix FPGA from 8bits4ever), anyone else have this with Zemmix (Neo or FPGA)?

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

29-04-2018, 21:23

I don't have another VGA monitor, but I can test what it looks like on s-video.

Par Pencioner

Paragon (1077)

29-04-2018, 22:46

sdsnatcher73 wrote:

My Zemmix is still in production so cannot give any feedback het. But it sure looks like an issue in the output circuitry on your model. I would get in touch with them.

They kindly responded and i sent my one back for investigation, so i'm looking forward to get it back fixed

SPeaking about colors - are there any trimmer resistors on R, G, and B channels in the circuit of OCM? Actually, with RGB there should be some calibration, right?

Par Grauw

Ascended (8734)

29-04-2018, 22:50

The RGB output levels are linear… any configurability of how those levels are displayed is up to the monitor and its settings.

Par Pencioner

Paragon (1077)

29-04-2018, 23:36

But really while most of MSX machines has some very small differences in RGB colors and look-n-feel of image, but Zemmix output is different. First of all, the pixels are more thick (at least in screen 0 at 80 column mode), and color is a somehow different. Didn't perform any scrupulous investigation for other screen modes, will do that when my Zemmix will be back (and when i have some time for that).

Par sdsnatcher73

Paladin (799)

30-04-2018, 06:52

I think the ‘thickness’ of the pixels is a VGA output thing were pixels and lines are doubled to reach the required minimum 640x480 resolution. Or are you perceiving this on S-Video and RGB Scart output as well?

And as Grauw said in RGB everything is linear, the digital RGB in OCM / Zemmix need to be translated to an analog RGB through a DAC, I don’t know how this DAC is implemented in OCM and Zemmix, I have found these interesting reads:

http://www.pyroelectro.com/tutorials/vhdl_vga/hardware.html

http://www.pyroelectro.com/tutorials/fpga_vga_resistor_dac/t...

So if OCM and Zemmix work in a similar fashion to build a DAC from resistors then getting the resistance wrong somewhere might cause issues in the analog RGB output. Not sure if this is what happening but pretty sure this has to do with D/A conversion issues. I couldn’t imagine the Zemmix handling colors (bits) differently in the digital domain.

Do the Korean and Brazillian Zemmixes also have these color issues? Can anyone with such a system check?

Par Pencioner

Paragon (1077)

30-04-2018, 12:46

They are sick on the RGB SCART too. The exact immediate feeling at first sight was "is it MSX?"

Par sdsnatcher73

Paladin (799)

30-04-2018, 14:28

I’ve asked them if this is a systematic issue with Zemmix FPGA or are just incidents.

Par Pencioner

Paragon (1077)

30-04-2018, 14:47

sick ==> thick (OMG typo which changes that meaning drastically, sorry)

Par sdsnatcher73

Paladin (799)

30-04-2018, 15:06

That is odd... anyway they will load the berger.sc7 on the unit they are producing for me.

Par Pencioner

Paragon (1077)

30-04-2018, 15:13

On the video i posted above, RGB output on tube monitor, i get phone closer to show that pixels. Yes, i understand, video quality is not perfect, but it really looks quite different than with original MSX computers

Par sdsnatcher73

Paladin (799)

30-04-2018, 17:33

It looks more like VGA output, true MSX RGB should be closer to S-Video (but a bit better).

I noticed in the RGB video the monitor reports 525/60, doesn't this mean the Zemmix is still line doubling?? Wouldn't stock MSX have 240 (+ a bit for overscan and such) lines?? My RGB screen does not report how many lines it is receiving. To check you could connect a 'regular' MSX over RGB and see what your monitor reports (it may not be input lines but display lines)...

Par Grauw

Ascended (8734)

30-04-2018, 17:39

Note you need to press one of the higher function keys or use the DIP switches to use 15 kHz RGB output instead of VGA...

Par sdsnatcher73

Paladin (799)

30-04-2018, 19:28

Just got a photo from 8bits4ever from the same image on a VGA monitor through (soon to be mine) Zemmix FPGA:

Color at least looks as it should.

Par 8bits4ever

Resident (41)

30-04-2018, 19:30

Samor wrote:

Another thing I noticed is that the colours are sometimes slightly off... I don't know what the cause is (could be the monitor), maybe someone here has an idea:

This is an image from the pixel art collection; as you can see, the colours on the tires are somewhat purple whereas I'd normally expect them to be gray. Any ideas?

Hi, thats probably a solder point gone loose. You can send the unit anytime for repair. Just contact us through our webpage/email.

Par Pencioner

Paragon (1077)

30-04-2018, 20:44

sdsnatcher73 wrote:

I noticed in the RGB video the monitor reports 525/60, doesn't this mean the Zemmix is still line doubling??

It reports this for any NTSC signal So no, that's no different from what it reports when i turn on Panasonic or Sanyo or Yamaha...

Par sdsnatcher73

Paladin (799)

30-04-2018, 21:00

Oke. just wondering...

Par AxelStone

Prophet (2723)

30-04-2018, 22:23

Pencioner wrote:

got this Deltaco keyboard finally, tested, now i'm being completely satisfied and happy with it, it can keep 8 to 10 simultaneous keypresses on USB with Zemmix with no issues (and of course passes the Nemesis test flawlessly)

I have the Brazilian model of Zemmix and my USB keyboard NKRO doesn't works, I've Zemmix upgraded to last firmware. It's possible that not all USB keyboards are supported or simply is a failure of Brazilian model?

Thanks.

Par 8bits4ever

Resident (41)

30-04-2018, 22:36

AxelStone wrote:

I have the Brazilian model of Zemmix and my USB keyboard NKRO doesn't works, I've Zemmix upgraded to last firmware. It's possible that not all USB keyboards are supported or simply is a failure of Brazilian model?

Thanks.

Only USB keyboards that also output PS/2 protocol are supported. There is no USB HID implemented on the Zemmix/OCM

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

01-05-2018, 18:39

I have tested the other video outputs as well, it's a bit curious. I used an USB capture device.

s-video:

composite:

S-video is way too bright and composite is about normal. Both do not have the purple color issue.

Par sdsnatcher73

Paladin (799)

02-05-2018, 15:41

8bits4ever wrote:

Samor wrote:

Another thing I noticed is that the colours are sometimes slightly off... I don't know what the cause is (could be the monitor), maybe someone here has an idea:

This is an image from the pixel art collection; as you can see, the colours on the tires are somewhat purple whereas I'd normally expect them to be gray. Any ideas?

Hi, thats probably a solder point gone loose. You can send the unit anytime for repair. Just contact us through our webpage/email.

This just occurred to me: what if your VGA cable has some issues??? Might be worth it to try another VGA cable before returning your Zemmix.

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

02-05-2018, 18:23

It was the same with another cable so I can rule that out.
I've already sent it too by 8bit4ever's suggestion. They have been very helpful.

Par Samor

Paragon (2046)

19-05-2018, 19:50

My Zemmix returned today and it's all fine now:

:)

Par Pencioner

Paragon (1077)

19-05-2018, 21:56

Mine is back too and the RGB and VGA is fine now as well!

Par giuseve

Paladin (735)

21-05-2018, 17:10

Hallo,

my zemmix works on the SM s23b350 with PINS 2&3 set ON/OFF VGA 31khz/60Hz or ON/ON VGA w/ scanlines, 31Khz/60Hz

But it shows a kind of shadow (left side, gray color) of the main screen.
Does 3.6 version of KDL?

Par hamlet

Scribe (2942)

10-12-2018, 21:32

I'm curious how much units has been built until?

Par siddy6581

Master (133)

06-01-2019, 23:50

Wow, this sounds like a fascinating device!
I read it has different turbo-functions, but does it mean that it will be capable of running Turbo R-softwares? (like "PaRaDream" etc). Anyone tried Ys III on this one?

And are there plans for new batches? Currently I only see the SX-1 for sale on 8bits4ever.net

Media browser (2)

Commentaires (141)

Zemmix FPGA MSX by 8bits4ever

Media browser (2)

Share

Related content

Commentaires (141)