Convert MSX Disks to .DSK images

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Par TomH

Champion (335)

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05-02-2019, 23:01

True, but DOS uses a wide range of sizes, of which 1.44mb is just one. 720kb and 360kb are others in 3.5" world.

Put another way: on what occasion would you expect a PC that can physically read an MSX disk of plain old BASIC files in any capacity not to be able to display its contents directly in Explorer? Is that really possible?

(EDIT: also, I withdraw my "Microsoft no longer supports FAT12" guess, having had a 20-year-old memory of writing directly to the floppy controller resurface and remind me that even 1.44mb floppies definitely use FAT12; FAT16 is for an order of magnitude further up the storage capacity chain)

Par Manuel

Ascended (19273)

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05-02-2019, 23:02

Modern Windows may not support single sided disks.

Par wyrdwad

Paladin (934)

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05-02-2019, 23:12

Manuel wrote:

Tom: 1.44Mb 2HD disks are not used on MSX.

I know. That's what I was saying. Nyyrikki suggested placing tape over the hole on the disk in order to read its contents, but AFAIK, the only time you'd ever do that is if the disk is 1.44Mb 2HD and you're trying to fool the MSX into thinking it's 720Kb 2DD. Which is probably not a good idea if the disk IS in fact 1.44Mb 2HD and you're trying to read its contents.

-Tom

Par Manuel

Ascended (19273)

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05-02-2019, 23:17

You would only so that if you want to use such a disk on the MSX as a fresh disk, and thus also format it on the MSX.

Par TomH

Champion (335)

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05-02-2019, 23:53

I can offer it only as hearsay, but as I understood it, HD and DD disks differ in chemical formulation, and disk head intensity is altered to match. So trying to use an HD floppy as a DD is unlikely to have lasting success.

Not that it affects the question posed, of course.

Par wyrdwad

Paladin (934)

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06-02-2019, 00:15

I've done the tape thing to write 2HD disks as 2DD many times, and to date, I've had no disk failures. But I also try not to push my luck, so I don't tend to write to these disks too often, instead using actual 2DD disks for savedata and user disks and such.

-Tom

Par Wild_Penguin

Hero (644)

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06-02-2019, 00:27

The OP is trying to read some disks containing MSX-Basic disks. I can not figure how they could be HD (1.44MB) formatted, since no MSX computer on Earth supports that format - unless they were used on some other computer, and for some reason MSX-Basic files were depositted on them. If that were the case, they should be tried to be red on the format / computer they were written on (whatever that may be ... but that scenario is unlikely, although possible).

I've never heard that a floppy disk could be damaged just by reading it. I seriously doubt they can be, unless the disk drive is physically damaged in a way it will mangle the disk (writing is another story).

A HD disk might try to read a disk as a HD formatted, although it is formatted in different format, unless the hole is covered. Many MSX floppy drives do not even have the sensor, but now the disk is being read on a PC. It does make sense to cover the hole, since it could be formatted in 720kb (or 360kb). Also flip the write protect switch!

Par NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (6016)

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06-02-2019, 01:10

wyrdwad wrote:
NYYRIKKI wrote:

If you see a small hole on lower right corner of the disk when you look text side and the metal plate is facing up, take a piece of tape, cover the hole & try again.

Isn't that dangerous, though, if he's trying to read the data on the disk? If it's a 1.44Mb 2HD disk, trying to read the data as if it were a 720Kb 2DD disk almost certainly wouldn't work, right? And I feel like it could potentially corrupt the data.

If he were writing a disk, that would be a different story. But for reading an existing commercially released disk, I don't think it's wise to mess with the data format.

You seem to have the idea somehow upside down... I suggested this IF there is a hole to cover. If this is the case then the disk has been originally HD disk, but if it works on MSX it has been formatted as DD disk. I know at least Future disk used sometimes HD disks since they did not get their hands on enough DD disks... bad practice I know.

MSX does not see is there hole or not, so it does not affect usage if there is tape or not... Only in HD capable PC drives there is detection of the hole and it must match the format used on disk in order to get data out properly.

Reading of data does not corrupt anything and same goes to both disks and cassettes, but cassettes are maybe more easy to understand... Even if you put music cassette to MSX drive, it won't be ruined. Same goes if you put MSX cassette to music player... The thing is that you as a listener just don't understand the MSX generated audio and MSX does not understand ZZ Top or Rihanna.

If the PC floppy controller is reading the floppy with wrong clock then the result is failure. We know that taping the hole will set the clock to same as on MSX, so in case MSX can read the disk, it is always step to right direction to tape the hole for PC use if there is one.

TomH wrote:

I can offer it only as hearsay, but as I understood it, HD and DD disks differ in chemical formulation, and disk head intensity is altered to match. So trying to use an HD floppy as a DD is unlikely to have lasting success.

Not that it affects the question posed, of course.

Yes, they are different... (Also music cassettes can be different and you have to select correct cassette type from the music player to hear the sound as intended) How well HD disks work as DD depends very much of the drive used... People have reported anything from "Does not work at all!" to "I have used these disks for decades without any problems"

Shinobi wrote:

I tried all option in Disk Manager, when copying each track, it says, can't read track n (can't read track 1...track 2...track 3) .. tried all options all types of disks...

If you can't read any 360KB / 720KB disks at all I think you have to blame the drive... Is it a drive that you connect trough USB-cable? It is well known that not all USB-drives can read DD-disks anymore. Try if you can find some other USB floppy drive to try.

Par wyrdwad

Paladin (934)

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06-02-2019, 02:56

You make a good point, Nyyrikki! I didn't think my response through very well. Good info! Hopefully, it'll help the TC figure out the problem.

-Tom

Par sdsnatcher73

Prophet (3838)

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06-02-2019, 05:17

@Shinobi: do you have a mass storage device connected to your MSX? Like a harddrive, CF/SD card on a MFR or Carnivore2 or something similar. If so you could just use fdsave command to save the disk content to a .dsk file.

You can download fdload (to write a .dsk file to disk) and fdsave here.

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