YM-2413 real vs emulated

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Par gdx

Prophet (3837)

Portrait de gdx

21-08-2020, 13:34

An emulation is an imitation of a behavior with something else. Whether the imitation is perfect or not, it doesn't change the meaning.

Grauw wrote:

Of course I don’t disagree that FPGA is capable of implementing the OPLL much more true to the original than processors can.

On the other hand, it is not necessarily more interesting to do better.

Par msd

Paragon (1405)

Portrait de msd

21-08-2020, 13:46

I think my main issue is that most people think emulation = software, but it can also be hardware..
From my work designing safety devices the statement about fpga's was/is:
The development process is equal to software design, but the result can be considered hardware.
But perhaps getting of topic a little Tongue

Par WORP3

Paladin (809)

Portrait de WORP3

21-08-2020, 16:42

The MIDI-PAC could be a third option. No real or emulated YM2413 but a translated one but still compatible to a msx music/fmpac.

Par Parn

Hero (610)

Portrait de Parn

21-08-2020, 17:07

Being the first in this topic to use the term "reimplementation", I just want to say respect everyone's opinion on the subject and of course I can't be always right. But since I graduated in language, I think communication is important. And in computer technology when you think "emulator", most people think specifically a software emulator.

Of course the word emulation has a wider meaning, but I personally don't think it means much when we talk about hardware. For example, I think it would be weird to call the Toshiba T6950 a TMS9918 emulator.

When we say an FPGA implementation is emulation, it evokes the mental image of a processor running software to replicate the functions of some hardware, despite many of us knowing better.

Coming back to topic, it's undeniable that FPGA can potentially offer the highest possibility of perfectly reproducing OPLL's quirks, but this comes at the price of higher difficulty of development and higher cost. If you only want to listen to pretty sounds software emulation will get you covered.

gdx wrote:

MSX games with good FM music are not very numerous.

Oh, I can't agree. I think there's quite a lot of MSX games with good FM music. Thexder 2, Feedback, Dragon Slayer 6, games from Compile, T&E and Hertz, and especially Micro Cabin all come to mind.

Par gdx

Prophet (3837)

Portrait de gdx

21-08-2020, 18:08

Parn,
I meant good music especially thanks to the FM (MSX-Music). Most games with FM music use the default instruments only. This does not add much value to the musics despite the number of additional voices. Micro Cabin is one of the exceptions. Most other games (at least 70%) don't bother me that much when the music is played by the PSG. The FM seems underexploited. Anyway, that's my impression.

Par Parn

Hero (610)

Portrait de Parn

22-08-2020, 12:53

@gdx, I'm not sure I quite follow but I'm now under the impression you meant good music by making the most of the resources provided by the OPLL. If so, please forgive my misunderstanding. I personally only meant well-composed, well-made music, not necessarily technically advanced or with complex layers, which I hope you'll agree we have plenty of examples in MSX land. Wink

One of the things that never fails to amaze me is how comparatively bad Master System music is when using the same sound chip. Only Compile managed to keep the same quality. So at least in this respect MSX fares much better. Smile

Par sdsnatcher73

Paragon (1212)

Portrait de sdsnatcher73

22-08-2020, 20:15

I feel that is even the case with PSG on the master system. I know it is a different chip but that doesn’t account for everything I believe.

Par AxelStone

Prophet (2765)

Portrait de AxelStone

28-08-2020, 21:54

Parn wrote:

Coming back to topic, it's undeniable that FPGA can potentially offer the highest possibility of perfectly reproducing OPLL's quirks, but this comes at the price of higher difficulty of development and higher cost. If you only want to listen to pretty sounds software emulation will get you covered.

That's the point, an FPGA can be a perfect implementation of the original hardware since FPGA language is really at hardware level, you are programing logic devices not a CPU using commands. In fact, FPGAs are used to prototype new hardware, like CPUs or graphic cards.

Of course it requires more effort than software emulation, but results can be more acurate when done.

Par Meits

Scribe (6051)

Portrait de Meits

28-08-2020, 22:17

Parn wrote:

One of the things that never fails to amaze me is how comparatively bad Master System music is when using the same sound chip. Only Compile managed to keep the same quality. So at least in this respect MSX fares much better. Smile

That's kind of the thing gdx is talking about. The chip has a few hardware voices and that's what is being used exclusively by the many of the games. This is the same with Master System. I can't recall ever having heard a software voice on that machine.

sdsnatcher73 wrote:

I feel that is even the case with PSG on the master system. I know it is a different chip but that doesn’t account for everything I believe.

It's a bit of a different chip but square wave and square wave don't differ that much. The thing is that the Sega chip lacks the first octave, ripping the low out of every tune, making it all quite bleepy.

Par Manuel

Ascended (17083)

Portrait de Manuel

28-08-2020, 22:55

If you know in detail how it works and implement all that, there is no difference between FPGA or pure software emulation in accuracy.
The biggest/only advantage of FPGA, IMHO, is for video chip emulation. You can then directly control the signal output sent to a monitor.

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