Actually, I don't think MSX has ideal videochips at all; TMS lacks a lot of gaming essentials, VDP is quite slow. Then again, ppl seem to want to stick to them.
Point me in the right direction and I will look into the possibilities.
Point me in the right direction and I will look into the possibilities.
Just to mention one that has already been built: ADVRAM
There's also an interesting development on Spectrum platforms (mainly Russian clones) called IIRC Gigascreen, about how to buffer the video stream and show alternate frames merged in a way that's already used in demos like "MSX Unleashed" by DVik & Joyrex. Using the color blending between both frames a greater palette can be created.
And all the ~5000 active MSX users have this ADVRAM?
Graphics cards are nice, but MSX already has good video hardware... however we are lacking an ethernet board (available to get I mean)... <suggestion...>
Good video hw? where is ? the ungly VDP?
The C64 has a far better videochip for demos and games ....
..... The problem is of course the whole idea of having separate VRAM, to get new things there requires time, while the VRAM section of the C64 is simply a section of its main 64KB RAM.
I do not think the problem is the slow vRAM, the only things that make those demos doable on VIC-II and almost impossibile on TMS are :
scroll registers (sinus waves)
line interrupt (again sinus waves+some various raster effects)
far better hw sprites.
In the youtube video, if you take care you often see the slowness of the c64 CPU when doing massive vram operations.
If you add the first two things to the tms vdp, you can do a lot of things using tile based gfx on a msx.
Take into consideration that those demos often move a lot of bytes in vram, especially in vblk
things like the gng demo from dvik or utopia or even the game malaika, are simply undoable with a so limited 6510 cpu if we use the same approach we used on msx. (Of course on c64 you use hw scroll or what ever could help).
for example, write a "ldir" routine on c64 and compare the speed with the msx equivalent of otir. the write speed is a lot faster on msx in vblk than on c64.
The c64 performs a lot better because of the three things i mentioned above... not because it's teoretically faster vram access....
Well, the term 'speed' may be a thing to discuss, at least the C64 videochip offers more than the TMS and, in a way, more than the VDP. So whether things are slower or faster, bottomline is that the C64's videochip is better for games and demos.
Well, the term 'speed' may be a thing to discuss, at least the C64 videochip offers more than the TMS and, in a way, more than the VDP. So whether things are slower or faster, bottomline is that the C64's videochip is better for games and demos.
I agree with you about the videochip. VIC-II is far better and give best results.
But it's 80% due to better VIC-II hw and only 20% due to - teoretically - fast vram access.
Let me explain/clarify my point of view with an example:
An absolute write to memory machine instruction on 6510 takes on average 4 clock cycles, about 14 of the z80 ones. So for example to move a byte from memory to memory the 6510 takes about the same time as the time needed to the vdp between two writes when in active area (14x2=28cycles) .... excluding the time needed to perform others operations such pointer increment and counter decrement and conditional jump needed on a memory to memory transfer loop.
In a similar fashion, the vram write speed is FAAAAAAR more slow on c64 than on msx, but not because of the vram slowness, instead because of the CPU slowness!
Even with those limits, because of the superior hw of the VIC, the result are better on c64. But remove only two things on VIC (scroll regs and rasterline ints) and you won't go so much far than on TMS
And all the ~5000 active MSX users have this ADVRAM?
No...and none of them are going to have (well, maybe yes
) luppie hardware protos; but it's a cool starting point when toying with VDP hardware...
I have 3 letters for you guys: VSU :)
Edit: video-links posted... tell me what you think about it ;)
Wow, so the original VDU has evolved to *this*. It's really a beast, no doubt; but how much could it cost a card with 4 V9990, 2 V9958, 1 OPL4 and 3,25Mb RAM?!.
Anyway....still shocked.... *o*
