Trying to Build a Internal Cartidge Slot in Msx2 HB-F9s...

By Dhampird

Hero (589)

Dhampird의 아바타

27-08-2010, 01:30

Hello, i´m just planning to build a new internal Cartidge Slot into Msx2 HB-F9s, to use it in near future for Sound Card LPE-SANS V2 or MC-SD Sinfox V2.2.

About the Sound Card LPE-SANS V2 i read in the manual that for Record games this cart will be in Slot 1 Not Expanded , i think that will be great if i could install this cart into the MSX, the cart is a little big and did not have a palstic case housing, the best point will be to install the cart stereo output in the MSX2 HB-F9s case, the problem is that, for record operations the cart will be inserted in Slot 1 (not expanded) i hope this will not a problem to allocate in the new internal slot.

About the MC-SD Sinfox V2.2 the manual says that any primary or extended Slot can be used.

I think the best way to install the internal Cart will be use a female Msx Cartidge conector, wire all its pins and try to allocate in any free place in mainboard MSX component side. Then i will need to wire all cart signals to the female conector, this way in future i´ll change the internal cart inserted more easy.

So I think I should install the internal cartridge slot using it as primary slot and not expanded slot, i wonder if this will be possible using the Slot engine Signals like SLOT33 or SLOT0/00 to install internal cart like primary, or i will need to use a programed CPLD with all slot expander functions. Will be great have the greatest possible compatibility in the internal slot.

Ok, for now i´ll check in the Hb-F9s which pins are the same between cartridge slots 1 & 2, almost of them (you´ll see in red in the image below), there are several pins that do not match between the Slots and are connected to different components. This signals that i found are:

-------------------------SLOT1----------------------------------

Pin 10 <BUSDIR> goes to <R65>
Pin 4 <SLT1> goes to <pin51 (SLT1) in S1985>

-------------------------SLOT2----------------------------------

Pin 10 <BUSDIR> goes to <R144>
Pin 4 <SLT2> goes to <pin52 (SLT2) in S1985>

Also i read some points in the S1985 datasheet about slot expansion, then i did the diagram more below but i dont sure if this will be correct and if works like a primary or expanded slot.

a.imageshack.us/img710/2634/msxforo2.jpg

Possible Diagram install (i dont sure if this is correct):

a.imageshack.us/img823/938/msxforo1.jpg

I didn´t find the MSX2 Technical Databook, i cant find this nowhere and will be interesting know more about the Slots.

Regards.

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By RetroTechie

Paragon (1563)

RetroTechie의 아바타

27-08-2010, 03:56

Oh dear... Wink do you really need to insert more than 2 cartridges at the same time, in a machine that has a turbo upgrade, no bus buffers, and internal RAM expansion (so you don't ever need external mapper inserted) ?

Anyway: S1985 has the option to expand both slot 0 and 3. Some software doesn't like expanded slot 0, though. And I wouldn't know if HB-F9S boots in working configuration if you cause slot 0 expansion (same method as with MA18/KBDIR selection). Best use internal free slot: 3-3, and 3-1 if you removed built-in utility (or do you have 2+ ROM or RAM mapper in that slot now? Run MSXMEM to check). If you exchange with slot 1 or 2 signals, you loose the option to put a slotexpander in that cartridge slot, and other carts may not work right in expanded slot. Not worth the trouble, much easier is pick a cart that does work in expanded slot & put that internally.

Do the /BUSDIR signals go anywhere else beside pull-up resistors R65 & R144? If not, they're not used & you might as well leave them disconnected (or tie to corresponding pin on either slot). Also I'd consider not connecting +12 / -12V to reduce damage when you ever insert a cartridge the wrong way. Other option is to put a 50-pin (slot?) connector on the back of the HB-F9S, if there's room to do that.

So best to put into that 3rd slot would be a cart that you want always present, works in expanded slot, fits inside, doesn't draw much power, and doesn't use +12 or -12V.

P.S. Just realized it's possible (not necessarily useful) to have the normal DRAM (slot 3-2) in parallel with a 512K SRAM like you put in. Biggest mapper in lowest slot of course, would make 512K mapper in slot 3-1 and 256K mapper in slot 3-2, both internal (!!). Of course right now (with just SRAM), you may try to feed fixed 3.58 Mhz to S1985 clock input (to have normal PSG sound @turbo speed). With DRAMs back in, that's not an option.

By Dhampird

Hero (589)

Dhampird의 아바타

01-09-2010, 03:56

Hello, RetroTechie, about...

"do you really need to insert more than 2 cartridges at the same time, in a machine that has a turbo upgrade, no bus buffers, and internal RAM expansion ?"

Yes, probably not entirely necessary to place an internal cartridge, the first idea was would be to incorporate the sound card LPE-SANS V2 because this card has inbuilt quality stereo output that can connect to an amplifier and the first idea was to placed this stereo jack output in the Msx HB-f9s case. That was the most important reason for incorporating the LPE-SANS V2, the problem is that this sound card is big and i tried to find a way to install internally into the msx, but is not enough free space to try place into msx, the only way will be remove the rectangle metal faceplate locate near AC power supply and big capacitors, but i think this would not to be good because more heat would accumulate in the msx. Ok, another problem is that this card needs to be used how primary Slot and not expanded, this makes me rethink putting the card in internal slot and find another way to placed a quality Stereo or PseudoStereo sound output into msx case ( i´ll open new post subject of stereo output)

Then i think that the best way will be put internally the MMC/SD Sinfox v2, that works in Expanded mode and then not have future problems if someday i´ll want to use a slotexpander from Slot1 or Slot2. this will be great, i dont want to limit any options of the slot 1 and slot2, this is the most important.

Ok, i runned MSXMEM and i get this results:

a.imageshack.us/img64/5688/msxmem.jpg

Then, it seems that internal free slot: 3-3, and 3-1 are empty or free to be used, right?

About /BUSDIR signals seems that not goes to any important point, i checked in board and seems only joins to +5V, in hb-f9s service manual also conected this signals only to +5V:

a.imageshack.us/img153/616/servicemanual.jpg

"Other option is to put a 50-pin (slot?) connector on the back of the HB-F9S, if there's room to do that."

This option will be possible to set in the left corner of the case where there is a AC mini-pcb placed, is the only "free" place to locate a female cart with complete case, will be an option but complicated to install right.But very possible to try in a future, will be interesting to know how make this install.

"So best to put into that 3rd slot would be a cart that you want always present, works in expanded slot, fits inside, doesn't draw much power, and doesn't use +12 or -12V."

I think the best option for now will be install like expanded cart the MMC/SD sinfox internally (then the Hb-F9s will have like a DS Diskdrive), and make this install in some way that not disturb the full future use of Slot1 and Slot2, also interesting the above full cart install type.

Will be great to know about the 2 methods of install, the fully 50-pin Slot and the MMC/SD sinfox internally, i think you refer all this like Expanded, and the way to install will be the same, for both methods (refering to use slot 3-3, 3-1 or 3-2)?

Thanks again.

By OeiOeiVogeltje

Paragon (1426)

OeiOeiVogeltje의 아바타

01-09-2010, 15:31

have you seen this topic?

http://www.msx.org/forumtopic9013.html

i know its not a HB-F9s but maybe you can get some info from that

By Dhampird

Hero (589)

Dhampird의 아바타

01-09-2010, 23:21

have you seen this topic? http://www.msx.org/forumtopic9013.html i know its not a HB-F9s but maybe you can get some info from that

Hello "OeiOeiVogeltje", thanks for reply, the post you comment redirects important info to msx.retro8bits.com, but all these links are dead, some of the information located in that link
is now here:

msxinfo.msxblue.com/msxdiy.html

I read most important articles from there related to Msx Slots, but even I have enough doubts about the future installation of internal slot in the hb-f9s, now the most important following the instructions given me MSXMEM, i could use 3-3 (pin 56 S1985) or 3-1 (pin 54 S1985), if I am right, to conect to the "Pin4 SLT" in the future Internal Slot that i want to build, anyways will be good to know if i need to conect SLT2 (pin 52 S1985) or SLT32 (pin 55 S1985) to the pin 4 SLT (of the internal Slot that i want to build). I have doubts with that, also important will be how could i get common signals from SLOT1 and SLOT2? i mean if I only could get that common signals from one SLOT like 1 or i have to get common signals from both SLOTS, someones from SLot1 and someones from Slot2, for example. if that signals are common i think that not be problem if i get all of them only from SLOT2, right?

Also tell that i dont want limit the functionality of Slot 1 and 2 for if in a near future i ´ll want to conect an expansion cart or similar than needs all functionality in slot 1 or 2.

By Dhampird

Hero (589)

Dhampird의 아바타

03-09-2010, 02:25

Hello again, i made a diagram that show how conect common points from Slot1 and Slot2 to put the mmc/sd sinfox internally, then the "Sinfox Solder Side" get the common points from SLOT2, the "Sinfox Component Side" get the common points from SLOT1, I wonder if this will be correct. The pin4 (SLT) from sinfox goes to SLT33 and SLT2, on purpose of that SLOT wires: the question is to know if would be better options to do the mod following the MEMTEST image of a previous post.

a.imageshack.us/img638/4336/slotinterno.jpg

Also tell that in the image below you´ll see the place where I would put the Sinfox cartridge, and for the point 1. (of the image) tell that i would have to remove the 2 SD cases, then rewire the Sinfox SD signals to another point, to do that i think in remove the Msx Printer conector and in its place put the 2 SD sockets, this is the point 2., i wonder if i´ll need some resistors in that rewires, from Sinfox SD signals to the new Sockets located in the Msx Printer Conector place, the distance is not great but what values i could use for that resistors?

Any ideas?

a.imageshack.us/img3/3862/sinfoxresistorsimpresor.jpg

Thanks.
Regards.