At first I responded to this in the first newsposting's reaction field. However I think real discussion might be more appropriately done here.
First of all, the site linked to in the first article with 'Say no to MSXPLAYer' logo's is of absolutely *NO* value to me. I will even refuse to reply on its contents. It is just a blatant offense towards Ginseng, seeing the URL where it is located ('ginsengsux'). I will not listen to people with such attitudes. Thinking of the fact that they are the kind of people associating with this anti-revival movement makes me already very negative and biased against it in advance.
As for the rest, the msx-all site. It looks cool, pretty design (although far from standards compliant), and the actual site's contents seem interesting. Bummer it's got such a bad attitude towards MSX-Association. Imho info-sites like this one shouldn't be expressing its creators' personal thoughts. If you wanna create a protest-site, create it, if you wanna create an info-site, create it, but don't combine both. One is information, other is personal opinion, and those don't go well together. I am glad http://www.msx.org at least is unbiased towards things.
About the manifest, I think there should be a little faith in the MSX Association. They are trying to revive things, and that is a good thing. Ofcourse it is on a commercial basis, but you can't do no such thing without one. About the usage of the MSX logo, there is nothing really wrong with it and such rules are common practice. On top of that, these rules really aren't restricting. Actually, if they hadn't issued such a thing I'd be more surprised and started doubting their dedication and professionalism towards the revival project. And as a plus they also offer you a good download location of an 'official' MSX logo.
It is a mistake to think that the MSX community has kept MSX alive, and that ASCII/MSX-Association somehow 'owes' us or something. The MSX community is nice, but it has done nothing special which is of any real benefit to MSX-Association. The people who used to have an MSX and to which the MSX-Association tries to appeal to with its MSX-player didn't partake in that community. You way overestimate the influence of the 'MSX community', which is so few in numbers. Most people will care shit about it, the thing they care about that this nice little computer which they used to have as one of their first suddenly gets sort-of revived again, which brings back nostalgic memories, and hopefully lets them wish to own a modern version of it again.
Furthermore, the MSX community has not right to 'claim' MSX for their own after ASCII 'abandoned' MSX. The members of this 'community' enjoyed their hobby and even spent some money on it even after MSX 'died', that's nice and all but means nothing, why do you wish respect for that? That sounds like 'I suffered for years but finally I can eat the fruits of my effort' or something?? That's pathetic!! If it was that horrible to you, and not worth its time, money and effort, why did you do it then??
And what else do I read, MSX-Association should develop with the MSX community's consent? What a joke! First of all, the MSX community has such different opinions on everything, if the MSX community would EVER control the development of new standards nothing would be developed at all!!! The MSX people currently working on a 'new MSX' can't even be brought to work together on one single standard design!! And you want those people to decide, instead of the professionals at MSX-Association, who made MSX the way it is now??
Also, secondly, how are you going to select the people? Who will decide which MSX-user is old-skool enough or put enough effort in the community and who's not? If they would choose me for example, and no less important, I would accept (because it will require a lot more of my time than it currently does, being a hobby, and I'd ofcourse expect to be paid for that much effort, but then in what way does that make me any different from the MSX-Association's professionals?), I agree on most steps they've taken so far. That could be considered the opinion of the community, but if others disagree, it won't be the community's opinion anymore?? Then what am I, are you saying I am no part of this community??? What makes you think the community *has* an opinion at all? Basically you're not saying that MSX-Association should follow the community's opinion, but yours! That's quite egocentric, but alas if that is what you want, sure, just don't say the community does.
More about the 'community'. You cannot say it 'grew'. The MSX community has diminished. Always. The only difference now is that with the internet, it has become easier to communicate, so that it *seems* bigger. It currently actually is so small I am surprised ASCII even pays attention to our opinions. Nishi even came to Tilburg to give a speech to 50-odd people!!
On a final note. MSX is still copyrighted, ASCII still owned the rights, even after so many years. If they decided to 'pick up on the project' again, to the true MSX-lover that can only be seen as a *good* thing. They are professionals, know what they're doing, and on top of that they even take the effort to listen to the Japanese and non-Japanese MSX communities' opinions. That's more than you can ever hope for from any other common commercial company. Ofcourse this 'new MSX' won't be the same as the old one, hardware-wise. Nowadays, no-one would want such a computer with its legacy limitations and restricted design dating back into the 80s, not even I!! For that, I can use my old MSX, and at the time all 'original' MSX computers have ceased to function I can always get one of those CIEL++ things from Ademir. If I (and the general public) are to spend money on a new, commercially developed device, I want it to be *cool*, have added value over the currently existing devices. So far, the specs they came up with sounded very cool indeed. They are not full-fledged promises, so if the end product turns out a little different don't accuse them of lying or anything, but the main idea is that it remains within the 'MSX spirit', and as a bonus also adds some form of backwards-compatibility.
To end this little rant of mine, I hope the MSX-Association succeeds in what they are trying to do and I give the MSX-revival all my support.
~Grauw
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