A dream or a hype ?

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By mars2000you

Enlighted (6267)

mars2000you의 아바타

08-08-2005, 12:14

My informations about the special cable come from this site :

http://blue.ap.teacup.com/uo_1chipmsx/

Following an article on Gigamix, this site has been created by someone that is probably very close to Ascii, but can't only give unofficial informations, because Ascii prefers to keep secret some things. It's also viewed by Gigamix as a pressure way on Ascii.

And the fact that I've given also the information about the 2 new MSX-DOS tools proves that I want to give a complete info, not only the bad things as you think and not only the bright things as you prefer.

Objectivity is always a mix of good and less good things, and that's something that MRC/Bazix is sometimes forgetting. Of course, the feeling of what is good and less good differs for everyone, but the first step is to give the full info.

By snout

Ascended (15187)

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08-08-2005, 12:41

I don't think getting your information from unofficial sources without even attempting to get an answer from the official channels (e.g. Bazix), constantly making assumptions and sketching worst case scenarios has got an awful lot to do with objectivity, but that might just be me. Either way, I once again wonder if you would have acted the same if Tsujikawa had chosen to release the OCM himself as ESE, or through Sunrise as happened with CompactFlash and is planned with the GameReader... I can't help but get the impression that you rather base your opinion on a product on the people/companies involved than on what the product actually is.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (6267)

mars2000you의 아바타

08-08-2005, 12:59

No, I base my own opinion on the reactions in Japan and in the rest of the world about the product.

You can't deny that many MSX fans, especially in Japan, don't understand the Ascii's strategy.

Just explore the Japanese sites ...

When you speak about people, you think probably about what I call the eventual conflict of interests between MRC and Bazix. THAT'S ANOTHER PROBLEM. Don't confuse all things.

By Leo

Paragon (1236)

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08-08-2005, 18:33

Mars200you : Yes an MSX3 can be expensive , but if you really wants a good value computer you need to buy a PC , there are produce by zillions and then not really expensive.
And there is not only money, time matters :
1985 MSX2
1988 MSX2+
1990 TR
2005 maybe start of what will be MSX3 .. 15 years later ... I dont care if I have to buy a 20 or 40 euros cable I just want
this OCM to happen...

By mars2000you

Enlighted (6267)

mars2000you의 아바타

08-08-2005, 18:58

Leo : Contrary to what probably Snout thinks about my own opinion, I'm not against the idea of the OCM chip and the total price for the future MSX3 is not really so important.

But there are some things that prove that Ascii's strategy is not the good one :

- as I've mentioned as reaction to some news, the real MSX is the MSX2, it's not me that have said that, but Kay Nishi himself !

Here comes the fundamental error : the greatest part of the MSX community was waiting for a MSX2 OCM as starting point to go in the MSX3 direction ... and ASCII proposes only a MSX1 OCM .... where's the logic with Kay Nishi saying that the real MSX is the MSX2 ???

It was really better to wait for an optimised MSX2 OCM before to put on the net the pre-orders page.

- I can also mention the disorder in the way that important infos come to the fans :

* Ascii's page mentions clearly that the MSX1 OCM has no tape and printer support when Bazix is speaking of full MSX1 compatibility ....
* On the other side, Bazix FAQ gives some infos that you can't find on Ascii's site
* Another part of the infos is only available on non-official sites, with of course the risk of some errors

- Besides, in Japan , the MSX fans don't understand why MSX Association remains silent (only Ascii can have the official word) and in Europe, you are badly viewed by MRC mods if you come with other infos than the official Bazix infos (yes, that's what I call conflict of interests)

In some words : a bad strategy, info disorder and a bad atmosphere.

I really hope that Ascii/Bazix/MRC will understand their responsabilities in this situation and will listen really to the wishes of the MSX community. But probably, I'm dreaming ...

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9972)

wolf_의 아바타

08-08-2005, 19:13

Really, this tape-thing is getting boring! Let's refine the 1cm then: it plays all msx1 software, as long as it's not on tape. The issue is purely whether you think/expect a tape-port should be part of a standard in general (I think it's a bad move to declare a cas-port an essential to a cpu/rom/ram/vdp/sound standard, but alas). But this msx1-standard is even older than some of the ppz here! Back then tapes were normal.. but we're in 2005 now. I'm telling ya: everyone who's yelling about tapes will not use ANY simulated tape, ever, on the 1cm. Not even for Konami savegames Wink
('simulated' as in: some VHDL solution to read tapes via tape-images on SD, or the RCA connectors)

But if this next line will be a solution to the whole tape-issue, then fine.. and let it be done then!

The 1cm is not 100% MSX1 compatible.

Everybody happy now? ^_^

Everybody cancelling their order now? ^_^
Everybody hesistating to order an 1cm now? ^_^

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout의 아바타

08-08-2005, 20:18

mars2000you: I do agree with you that the One Chip MSX is not completely perfect (has any other MSX ever really been? Tongue) and that it would have been better if ASCII had done some things differently. However, the question is not 'is the One Chip MSX and everything that surrounds it absolutely perfect', the question is 'is the One Chip MSX good enough as a starting point for the future of MSX'. I personally think it is, but that probably wasn't a secret. Still, there might still come quite a few things that might even positively surprise you Wink

As for full MSX1 compatibility: I can't connect my tape desk to blueMSX either. Would you consider blueMSX to be not MSX compatible just because of that? Tongue

As for unofficial/lacking information: all you've got to do to get your questions answersed officially is actually ask the questions at the official channels. I would appreciate it if you switched from venting rough assumptions based on unofficial sources (often with a negative edge) to asking questions to the official channels instead. Would that be too much to ask?

As for conflict of interest: we've been down this road many times before, and time and time again you don't come up with actual facts that even remotely prove you're right on it. What I see as an ordinary discussion, you turn into "you are badly viewed by MRC mods if you come with other infos than the official Bazix infos". You are playing with emotions here that are easily created, but not necessarily true. With this you are hurting the feelings of the entire MRC team, which consists out of more than 40 members. Besides, a bit of faith on the people involved in Bazix would be appreciated. We all have been active members of the MSX Community for many, many, many years now and the fact that we run a company that's involved in the revival of MSX doesn't change us into different people with different opinions all of a sudden. Just another 2 cents...

By POISONIC

Paladin (1012)

POISONIC의 아바타

08-08-2005, 20:30

With this you are hurting the feelings of the entire MRC team, which consists out of more than 40 members. Besides, a bit of faith on the people involved in Bazix would be appreciated. We all have been active members of the MSX Community for many, many, many years now and the fact that we run a company that's involved in the revival of MSX doesn't change us into different people with different opinions all of a sudden. Just another 2 cents...
eeehh snout stupid question but how much forum members does MRC have Smile more than 40 i guess

and i also tought that BAZIX had notting to do with MRC......

By Arjan

Paladin (770)

Arjan의 아바타

08-08-2005, 20:40

well, all that Nishi really wanted is to have ONE chip MSX (as n cpu, video, sound integrated in one chip). By that logic I could say the OCM is the real MSX Smile

By mars2000you

Enlighted (6267)

mars2000you의 아바타

08-08-2005, 20:47

mars2000you: I do agree with you that the One Chip MSX is not completely perfect (has any other MSX ever really been? Tongue) and that it would have been better if ASCII had done some things differently. However, the question is not 'is the One Chip MSX and everything that surrounds it absolutely perfect', the question is 'is the One Chip MSX good enough as a starting point for the future of MSX'. I personally think it is, but that probably wasn't a secret. Still, there might still come quite a few things that might even positively surprise you Wink

From my point of view, and I think that other MSX Fans think the same, ASCII is now "forced" by the MSX community to declare that the MSX1 OCM is replaced by a MSX2 OCM (eventually with some delay for optimisation), otherwhise the situation of the pre-orders will not evolve positively


As for full MSX1 compatibility: I can't connect my tape desk to blueMSX either. Would you consider blueMSX to be not MSX compatible just because of that? Tongue

Amazing ... but I should appreciate that Bazix should give the same precisions than Ascii about the non-fully MSX1 compatibility : when I speak about objectivity in the infos, it's a very illustrative example.

Contrary to what you seem to understand, I really don't like tapes (and was very happy when buying a MSX2 with 2 diskdrives !), because it's so slow and source of errors. That's also why I prefer the CAS format in the emulators. But other MSX fans prefer the slow loading of WAV files ...


As for unofficial/lacking information: all you've got to do to get your questions answersed officially is actually ask the questions at the official channels. I would appreciate it if you switched from venting rough assumptions based on unofficial sources (often with a negative edge) to asking questions to the official channels instead. Would that be too much to ask?

As I've already said, an info must be complete to be objective. If some parts are only expressed in private e-mails, it's not enough. The info must be expressed in public area, except for some sensitive (technish) infos. It's the role of a so important company as ASCII to define a good strategy, also for the communication part. It does not seem the case for the OCM.

Again, the pre-orders page was created too soon ....


As for conflict of interest: we've been down this road many times before, and time and time again you don't come up with actual facts that even remotely prove you're right on it. What I see as an ordinary discussion, you turn into "you are badly viewed by MRC mods if you come with other infos than the official Bazix infos". You are playing with emotions here that are easily created, but not necessarily true. With this you are hurting the feelings of the entire MRC team, which consists out of more than 40 members. Besides, a bit of faith on the people involved in Bazix would be appreciated. We all have been active members of the MSX Community for many, many, many years now and the fact that we run a company that's involved in the revival of MSX doesn't change us into different people with different opinions all of a sudden. Just another 2 cents...

Without entering in all details, you know perfectly that the absence of complete separation between MRC and Bazix has divided the MSX community. From my point of view, the situation is more logic in Japan (ASCII and MSX-Association are really independant from each other), but it's not good that MSX-Association must remain silent, and Japanese fans are really deceived by this situation.

So, I should say that the best situation should be a real independance combined with a real liberty of self-expression. It's not the case nor in Japan(silence of MSX-Association), nor in Europe (MRC prefers to forget the need of objectivity to avoid problems with Bazix).

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