A dream or a hype ?

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By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9972)

wolf_의 아바타

08-08-2005, 21:03

you know perfectly that the absence of complete separation between MRC and Bazix has divided the MSX community

let's cut-off the rough edges here:

you know perfectly that the absence of complete separation between MRC and Bazix has divided a handful of ppz from the MSX community
so, ..not simply the entire community..

I for one couldn't care less who is who. If I want to know something MRC-related, I'll ask Snout. If I want to know something about the 1cm, I'll ask Snout. If I need info on some MCG-clubmeeting, I'll ask Snout. etc. etc. Ofcourse, legally they're 3 different Snouts, but really.. who cares? What's the big deal?

Organisation-independence is relevant when it comes down to a big-bucks organisations worldwide, not this smallscale fan-product 1cm. So, no matter who is who, legally or personally, it wouldn't change a thing regarding the 1cm.

If in the end we have/use this 1cm, try to look back then. Did it really matter who was who?

By mars2000you

Enlighted (6267)

mars2000you의 아바타

08-08-2005, 21:14

you know perfectly that the absence of complete separation between MRC and Bazix has divided the MSX community

let's cut-off the rough edges here:

you know perfectly that the absence of complete separation between MRC and Bazix has divided a handful of ppz from the MSX community
so, ..not simply the entire community..

The problem is not limited to the Dutch MSX scene as you seem to limit it to this area.
Also Spanish and Brazilian MSX fans are divided about MRC, especially since the creation of Bazix. The reasons are not always the same, but the general atmosphere is not good for the entire MSX community.

By Arjan

Paladin (770)

Arjan의 아바타

08-08-2005, 21:27

if the cassette can be emulated by using the mem card as a medium, it's MSX1 compatible (in terms of Software eXchangability)

By Leo

Paragon (1236)

Leo의 아바타

08-08-2005, 21:30

I agree I would like to have a MSX 2 directly from the ocm !!!

By Arjan

Paladin (770)

Arjan의 아바타

08-08-2005, 21:41

of course, everybody agrees with that Smile

however, this is a business. I don't think MSXA will be saying stuff like "We're sorry we're asking extra money to be able to include extra functionality which costed extra time to implement"

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout의 아바타

08-08-2005, 21:47

From my point of view, and I think that other MSX Fans think the same, ASCII is now "forced" by the MSX community to declare that the MSX1 OCM is replaced by a MSX2 OCM (eventually with some delay for optimisation), otherwhise the situation of the pre-orders will not evolve positivelyThis would indeed be an option, and not an unlikely one either. However, I don't think you should have used the term forced, not even within quotes. You make it seem like ASCII, MSXA, Bazix are 'enemies/opposites' of the MSX community that can only be influenced by using force, which is simply not the truth. That's more or less the 'problem' I run into with you quite a lot. Your choice of words often sets the tone for quite a bit of negativity, intended or not...

As I've already said, an info must be complete to be objective. If some parts are only expressed in private e-mails, it's not enough. The info must be expressed in public area, except for some sensitive (technish) infos. It's the role of a so important company as ASCII to define a good strategy, also for the communication part. It does not seem the case for the OCM.As for the communication: Bazix is responsible for the communication concerning the One Chip MSX outside Japan. If it wasn't for Bazix, the OCM would definitely be a Japan-only phenomenon. However, the FAQ on the Bazix website is just what it is: a list of frequently asked questions. And how can new questions and answers be added to the website if some people don't even bother to ask questions? So far your only comment on the information on the Bazix website was the mentioning of full MSX compatibility, whilst the OCM lacks a cassette port. Considering it is the year 2005, the turboR lacked a cassetteport, cassette can be supported by using one of the RCA connectors as an input + implementing your own VHDL and -as wolf stated- no one is probably actually going to use cassettes anymore, I consider that not enough reasons to shout 'bazix is not giving us complete information!' from the rooftops. Apparantly, you do.

Again, the pre-orders page was created too soon ....I think we have established that by now. I'm sure ASCII had more than enough reasons to put up the pre-ordering in the way and timeframe they did, and I'm also quite sure they will not let go of the OCM project as easily as some people might assume.

Without entering in all details, you know perfectly that the absence of complete separation between MRC and Bazix has divided the MSX community.No, I do not know that perfectly well. Just because MSX users don't agree on everything doesn't mean they are terribly divided. Either way, as I see it there are only a few people that are trying very hard to make it seem like there's a division in the MSX community, and there are a only few people that are trying very hard to make it seem like there's a big conflict of interest between the MRC and Bazix. Most of these people seem to have quite an agenda of their own. I wonder if one day their true interests will come to light.

nor in Europe (MRC prefers to forget the need of objectivity to avoid problems with Bazix).You're seeing ghosts, mars... MRC has always been positive about any new MSX developments, and has always tried to give as much information as possible. The revival is no exception. If you can't handle a website that's on the optimistic side of objectivity, then MRC is probably not the website for you. The only problems MRC worries about are of the legal kind, hence the no warez policy. If you think information is missing from the MRC: we do have a news submit section, you have used it frequently for blueMSX an msxblue hosted websites, it can be used for other news as well.

By proposing an unnecessary 'complete separation between Bazix and MRC' you basically state 'snout, bart and rikusu can easlily be replaced, I don't want you anymore' and that truly hurts my feelings. If, after maintaining the MRC for 5 years on end with total dedication, this is all the credit I deserve from you: so be it, but do you have to keep bringing it up on the MRC forums time and time again? Do you really expect me to say "hey, just because mars2000you thinks I can't keep Bazix and MRC apart I should better leave and never show my face in the entire MSX community again?". I don't think so.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (6267)

mars2000you의 아바타

08-08-2005, 22:22

However, I don't think you should have used the term forced, not even within quotes. You make it seem like ASCII, MSXA, Bazix are 'enemies/opposites' of the MSX community, which is simply not the truth. That's more or less the 'problem' I run into with you quite a lot. Your choice of words often sets the tone for quite a bit of negativity, intended or not...

Let's say that in some cases, I'm "forced" (yes !) to use some provocative words, because it seems the only way to get a real answer, not an "official communiqué". In this context, I use quotes to attenuate a little the power of the used expression. But probably it can be wrong understood, that's the risk ...

So far your only comment on the information on the Bazix website was the mentioning of full MSX compatibility, whilst the OCM lacks a cassette port.

Not only the cassette port, but also the printer port.

Besides, I've also mentioned that the Bazix FAQ included infos that you can't find on ASCII site.

So, when you citate me, you seem to forget some parts .... where's the objectivity (even when I try to be objective about Bazix site) ????

Most of these people seem to have quite an agenda of their own. I wonder if one day their true interests will come to light.

By saying that, you seem to see 'conspiray' around/about MRC. I don't think that it's the case. But on some points, especially the relation between MRC and Bazix, I have similar opinions to other people. It does not mean that there's a 'conspiracy'.

You're seeing ghosts, mars...

Well, I could say the same when you see 'conspiracy' around/about MRC.

If you can't handle a website that's on the optimistic side of objectivity, then MRC is probably not the website for you

By definition, the objectivity can't be only optimistic, as it must be the most perfect image (if possible !) of the reality in all his aspects : good aspects and bad aspects.

When an info site is only optimistic, it turns to propaganda; when it's only pessimistic (with only bad news), it turns to depression. In both cases, it's not good, it's even dangerous.

Do you really expect me to say "hey, just because mars2000you thinks I can't keep Bazix and MRC apart I should better leave and never show my face in the entire MSX community again?".

That's an caricature of my position. Other people than me think that a complete separation between MRC and Bazix should be better. On the other side, I understand perfectly that some choices in life are not so easy, and that you think that you have made the less bad choice by staying in MRC when starting Bazix, especially because MRC is a great part of your contribution to the MSX community. I simply hope that you have made the good choice, nothing more, nothing less. I have my doubts, but maybe I'm wrong ... Only the future has the answer to this question.

By tfh

Prophet (3207)

tfh의 아바타

08-08-2005, 22:30

of course, everybody agrees with that Smile

however, this is a business. I don't think MSXA will be saying stuff like "We're sorry we're asking extra money to be able to include extra functionality which costed extra time to implement"
True, True..
On the other hand, they are going to sell a basic configuration which noone is going to use in the end, as probably like 99% will use the MSX2 update, being it though official or non-official upgrades.
It's just like selling a color printer, but only including Black&White ink... It's just doesn't feel right.

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout의 아바타

08-08-2005, 22:54

Let's say that in some cases, I'm "forced" (yes !) to use some provocative words, because it seems the only way to get a real answer, not an "official communiqué". In this context, I use quotes to attenuate a little the power of the used expression. But probably it can be wrong understood, that's the risk ...Well, I'd appreciate it if you'd turn down on the provoking a bit, I'll try and not misunderstand your words.. how's that sound?

So, when you citate me, you seem to forget some parts .... where's the objectivity (even when I try to be objective about Bazix site) ????Point taken. I only cited the parts I wanted to comment on, though Wink Thanks for cutting Bazix some slack.

By definition, the objectivity can't be only optimistic, as it must be the most perfect image (if possible !) of the reality in all his aspects : good aspects and bad aspects. When an info site is only optimistic, it turns to propaganda; when it's only pessimistic (with only bad news), it turns to depression. In both cases, it's not good, it's even dangerous.I think you're going a few steps too far here. Being 'on the optimistic side of objectivity' doesn't instantly imply propaganda. That's thinking in black and white. But, in a way the MRC is pure propaganda for the entire MSX computer system, so... in that light.. it is propaganda Wink

Other people than me think that a complete separation between MRC and Bazix should be better.Question is what they are basing this opinion on, as there are no facts whatsoever that prove that MRC can't function properly because of Bazix existing and vice versa.

On the other side, I understand perfectly that some choices in life are not so easy, and that you think that you have made the less bad choice by staying in MRC when starting Bazix, especially because MRC is a great part of your contribution to the MSX community. I simply hope that you have made the good choice, nothing more, nothing less. I have my doubts, but maybe I'm wrong ... Only the future has the answer to this question. I am absolutely 100% positive that I made 'the good choice'. There is no reason whatsoever why I should stop doing what I enjoy doing just because I'm doing something highly related to that as well. Au contraire, I'd say. However, as you stated, only in time we will see some people had a lot of worries about nothing. (poke Tongue)

By mars2000you

Enlighted (6267)

mars2000you의 아바타

08-08-2005, 23:08

Well, I'd appreciate it if you'd turn down on the provoking a bit, I'll try and not misunderstand your words.. how's that sound?

Well, I can try to use more 'neutral' or 'objective' words (yes, I know, objectivity must be an obsession for me ... and that's difficult to reach, just like perfection Tongue)

Being 'on the optimistic side of objectivity' doesn't instantly imply propaganda. That's thinking in black and white

Indeed, but in some cases, you could give the impression that it's propaganda, because only the good things are displayed ..... note that I could say the same for me, when I'm making the blueMSX promotion (it was source of a troubled discussion in the past, so now I try to be more .... how could I say ? ..... yes, 'objective' Tongue)

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