Detecting OpenMSX or RealMSX?

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By ren

Paragon (1930)

ren의 아바타

16-04-2019, 09:24

You could always implement a switch to revert back? Smile

(Not sure if IO will be automagically fixed for openMSX when you fix this?)

By TomH

Champion (327)

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16-04-2019, 15:21

ricbit wrote:
TomH wrote:

EDIT: per the hint above, and following that link, it appears to assume that the point of interference is within the modulated television signal. If so then it's presumably not applicable to any MSX that doesn't use a modulated television signal — SCART and S-Video users need not apply. And, no, there's no software way to detect that.

You can on the turboR, just turn on the microphone and listen for your frequency.

Sure, straight after turning the volume up high enough for the microphone to be able to detect the noise, just like 0% of machines are probably currently configured. And even then trying to deal with false positives given the processing budget.

A much easier way to detect an emulator if you intend to do audio processing would likely be to look for better filtering. Or, in the case of many users, no audio input at all.

By bore

Master (144)

bore의 아바타

16-04-2019, 17:57

IMO one should avoid making workaround for emulators.
Usually the emulator writers wants to fix any inaccuracies and the workaround will just become junk code.
There are also multiple emulators out there with many different issues, making workarounds for all of them could be problematic.

Just make it compatible with real hardware and let the emulator writers do their thing.

By Overflow

Resident (57)

Overflow의 아바타

18-04-2019, 21:15

Manuel wrote:
Overflow wrote:

IO-demo source is available since years. Check Pouet links.
Test relies on bit t5s testing: it occurs 1 scanline earlier on real vdp1.

What happens if we fix that?

Just have a look by yourself.
Did you read the nfo?

nfo wrote:

Copy "IO.COM" on your floppy or partition, MSX-DOS1 or MSX-DOS2.
Type "IO y" for silent mode (...)

Type "IO", do not type "IO y"
To question wrote:

Sad sync by 5S looks bad
BlueMSX not supported
Patch for openMSX?(Y/N)

anwser N and demo will run without any patch for emu.
Again: source code IS available.


bore wrote:

IMO one should avoid making workaround for emulators.

I did code IO demo in 5 months without prior knowledge on MSX+VDP.
When I first posted some high-end question, I felt people laughed at me, possibly thinking:
"Look at that guy? coming from nowhere and asking about precise T-cycle timing differences. Foooool!"
So I decided to make the impossible, alone:
coding the possibly most high-end tech demo on VDP1,
self-patching code for MSX1 MSX2 Turbo-R... and emu.
Working with you guys before the demo is out? no way!

By hit9918

Prophet (2925)

hit9918의 아바타

18-04-2019, 21:52

to hack around different VDP is not the same topic as hack around emulator

By Manuel

Ascended (18941)

Manuel의 아바타

18-04-2019, 22:49

Overflow: I'm sorry you had such negative experiences. I think IO is one of the most impressive MSX1 demos around... it's really impressive for 5 months without experience with this VDP.

By sd_snatcher

Prophet (3551)

sd_snatcher의 아바타

19-04-2019, 00:10

Overflow wrote:

When I first posted some high-end question, I felt people laughed at me, possibly thinking:
"Look at that guy? coming from nowhere and asking about precise T-cycle timing differences. Foooool!"

It's really sad to read that this happened. I hope it was just some misunderstanding, or some language/cultural barrier.

But I can remember that question of yours, since it was very intriguing. Luckily, I could quickly find that thread, and it seems that people didn't even know a sure answer for your question yet, so it resulted in a lot of brainstorming.

Please keep in mind that the MSX is a standard, and not a single machine with little variance like i.e. the C64. The MSX ecosystem is vast and there are a plethora of different machines that have their own peculiarities. Not everything could be investigated in full detail yet, and we keep discovering more and more details all the time. Some aspect are still controversial, with some people affirming that it behaves in a certain way, and other that it behaves on another certain way.

A full "technical archeology" would take ages even for full time/well funded researchers, and we're just a bunch of middle-aged men with a lot of other RealLife obligations to do. One time or another, someone finds some time to scratch some very specific quirk, then documents it. Then the emulator developers have to find some time to implement that.

One such example was the way the Turbo-R changes between CPUs. There was a lot of misconceptions util NYYRIKKI took the time to investigate and document it in detail.

Even at this slow pace, a lot of things have been implemented this way since your question was asked 5 years ago. Others have been discovered, but not yet implemented.

But I will not wear the pink glasses: yes, we do have some trolls here. And even some nasty puppeteers. And yes, they're a pain in the arse and can break the motivation of even the most inspired creators. But what forums don't have absolute any of those? :)

OTOH, I also have seen one specific very common misunderstanding happen between programmers that come from other platforms and the experienced MSX programmers: It's when MSX programmers try to explain some well known caveats/gotchas of the platform, but it ends up being interpreted as biased/purist. After the newcomer falls in the caveat/gotcha problems, people will tell him "see, we told you that this would happen", and this is interpreted as rude.

Well, I think all of this proves that we're all only human, doesn't it? ;)

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