The BIG MSXVR Q&A thread

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By Warchild

Paragon (1274)

Warchild의 아바타

02-04-2020, 07:22

I thought this kind of talk was finished (see comments at https://www.msx.org/news/hardware/en/msxvr-available-for-pre... )

Maybe some of us are really bored of being stucked at home... so yeah, let's talk about this but... just a little... not for dozens of pages here. Just because as I said, this was discussed time ago (with the same result as if never was discussed: their haters hate it and their lovers love it) ;)

So, is this MSXVR the long awaited MSX3? My opinion is NO. It's not a MSX3. It must be at least a MSX6 or 7!! :RNFF:

Yes, I think they've passed some MSX generations that never existed. But if MSX System would had a longer commercial life, how many time do we think they would finish in that kind of dessign? I mean, a better and up to date hardware that, in some point, will be totally different to the ancient MSX. But compatible with it. And with all the previous generations, the 5 or 6 generations of them, yes. If a MSX3 (or 4,5,6...) was ever done, are we sure it would had be a "Z80 inside" machine? We can barely assume that it should have been backward compatible, but in wich manner is another story, I think.

The fact that the core of MSXVR is so different to our old and beloved MSX machines, doesn't make it a non MSX machine. Raspberry was not made "ex profeso" to run emulators. But was powerful enough to run them, so people started using it for that. MSXVR is a different aproach, making this modern hardware the core of a new MSX. Yes, a new MSX. Because other aproachs like OCM's and so just try to replicate a previous existing hardware. They are intended to do it, and it's fantastic how they improve it with any new production. MSXVR tries to make some further steps in some kind of evolution of the MSX computers, I can't see what's wrong with that. Yeah, developers didn't ask me nor you how to do it. Good they didn't ask me, I can not help oO .
So for me, the final answer of MSXVR being or not a MSX is just to see if it works as a MSX should work, and if it works like a MSXVR is intended to work. That's it. And so, the real-real-real answer will arrive when we have it on our desks to prove it, not discussing now if we like it or not. Maybe it's better to hate it and if it doesn't acomplish the objective then say "Hey! I told you!". But for now I love it, and hope it will work nice...

But some other considerations come to my mind:
MSX computers were NOT ONLY made for people that can assemble their own computers, nor only for people that can make truly complicated assembler programs. It seems like people with the skills to do that, tend to forget about the rest of the world (the MSX world) in this days. They were for all level consumer/user. And I see MSXVR like a way to put MSX nearer to this "all level user", letting poor plane users (like me) learn new things and DOING new things in a more easy way than using all those called "cross-platform development" full of Python, C++, Virtual machines or whatever names have all this stuff people use to develop for MSX now. I like MSXVR for that too, a powerful enough MSX compatible computer at hardware level too, so you don't need to turn on your PC and learn how the hell use all those spreaded PC software with it's mega puzzle of cross-platform programs, emulators, pluggins, scripts, libraries, and well... the infinite things you must use in your PC. I think that's the more I like MSXVR. And if it can run other classic computer cores with access to the real hardware inside it or whatever you put in its 4 slots, and in real time, then good for it! One MSX to rule them all! ;)

Oh, and there are 3 games for MSXVR... more or less the same number the Turbo-R had in its days if I'm not wrong :hannibal: Nice start ;)

Toooo loooong wriiiting yes :RNFF: But I'm near to finish. Just two questions and I'm done...

Q1: This is a very important question: if this was a MSX7, do we think it would come with huge printed manuals, wasting paper that will probably have printing errors and are not update as soon as changes or improvements are done? Maybe digital will be better, not so "retro-cool", I know, but maybe is better and less effort so we can expent the money of the books on other cool things... maybe "retro-cool" things, yes. :)

Q2: This one is probably a silly question, as I don't know about this things... MSXVR comes with a V9978 implementation (virtualization / emulation... call it as you want). Can this be translated in some way to a real hardware (maybe a tinny fpga or so) and put it in an existing MSX computer or in projects like the Omega PCB?

That's all! My final advice is:

If you love MSXVR... well, then you probably are buying one.
If you like MSXVR... maybe it's a good idea to buy one!
If you don't like MSXVR... mmm... better not buying something you don't like.
But if you really hate MSXVR... then you MUST buy one, search and point its bad things so the rest of us can learn to hate it too ;)

PS: I think it's better stop discussion. As I said at the begining this kind of talk is done yet, so we'll start to say what already has been said... "Q&A" means questions and answers, let's the thread serve to that. :)

By Emphy

Resident (43)

Emphy의 아바타

02-04-2020, 08:13

It's not a question of hating it; it's about being clear what the system is and is not.

It's not as if the makers didn't put it smack-dab in the end the name that the MSXVR is going to run the "old" software in emulation.

By Warchild

Paragon (1274)

Warchild의 아바타

02-04-2020, 15:27

Ok, maybe you don't have any sense of humor and nothing else to contribute.
Questions and Answers... I don't see any question nor answer. Why not asking them? You can ask anything you want. You can make questions in order to clarify what you say, inciding what you are pointing. Don't have to be confortable questions for them. But if your saying they are lying about their machine... well... I don't think so. That's all about this for me. Now waiting answers for my questions, if someone can help.

By Wolverine_nl

Paragon (1108)

Wolverine_nl의 아바타

02-04-2020, 16:45

Guys, not so overly serious...be happy Smile

Plus to clarify, I am NOT a hater, hate is something that makes the world broken, not something I am familiar with.
The world is NOT black and white, please accept that not all opinions are black and white.

It is still a fun gadget for many, and that is what matters, these times we need news of new MSX stuff, it is an official licenced product, so that is always good news Big smile

By Warchild

Paragon (1274)

Warchild의 아바타

02-04-2020, 19:15

@Wolverine_nl: I didn´t see any problem with your message. There's nothing wrong with it, you don't like the machine and anyone have his reasons to like/dislike something. In fact your message is in a very positive way, encouraging developers to make their best with it. That's the point. This game of lovers/heaters is just something to laugh about. Because as you say, the world is not black and white.

Because of that, the first thing I did was put a link to the comments done some time ago. Just to point that it's a nonsense discussion and we don't need to enter in an infinite loop. Smile

I think developers are being clear about what their computer is and can do. In fact, they've been so clear that you've found that it's not a machine for you, and this is ok. Any doubt can be asked, and that is what I was demanding in my message. Anyone can ask what they want, and not only those who like it.

Fortunately, there's a lot of ways to have fun with MSX. Smile

By Wolverine_nl

Paragon (1108)

Wolverine_nl의 아바타

02-04-2020, 19:55

True words Warchild Smile
MSX will be a part of my time through these difficult times, thanks for the developers that keep on going.
I also have finally some time to develop myself.

By psxdev

Resident (38)

psxdev의 아바타

03-04-2020, 00:06

In my opinion in 21th century reinventing the wheel and use closed source/closed hardware has not the spirit of our beloved standard. Respect for who believe the opposite of course

By Parn

Hero (607)

Parn의 아바타

03-04-2020, 15:06

I think there are some valid points to be made but the entire discussion feels fruitless, since it's effectively impossible that any kind of proposal will please everyone. Everyone has their own perspective on what should be the prime feature to keep the MSX spirit going. Some people think it's the form factor. Some people think it's the ease of programming. Some people think it's the openness of the hardware. Some people think it's the 8-bit processors.

Maybe I'm getting a bit corny after all this coronavirus issue, but I think we should never forget that the most important thing is to have fun. To have fun, and to have a good time with our friends. This is what MSX should be all about. Smile

By raymond

Champion (453)

raymond의 아바타

03-04-2020, 15:17

Emphy wrote:

It's an emulation box. One with some awesome hardware features, but an emulation box nonetheless.

No amount of branding or logos is going to change that.

For me it is just a nice box which contains a lot of fun! It runs MSX software and MSX hardware. So for me, it is an MSX!

By Wolverine_nl

Paragon (1108)

Wolverine_nl의 아바타

03-04-2020, 16:36

Parn wrote:

Maybe I'm getting a bit corny after all this coronavirus issue, but I think we should never forget that the most important thing is to have fun. To have fun, and to have a good time with our friends. This is what MSX should be all about. Smile

Amen to that Parn Big smile

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