MSX-C — A new, low-cost MSX Turbo R computer!

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By psxdev

Resident (45)

psxdev의 아바타

20-04-2021, 23:54

Hdmi for less 10000 units is around 5k/year plus a little fee per unit. Perhaps we need to choose other solution like old playstation connector.

By erpirao

Paragon (1195)

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21-04-2021, 11:49

maybe display port would be more feasible?

By konamiman

Paragon (1139)

konamiman의 아바타

21-04-2021, 12:00

JEckert wrote:

Feedback is looking good. I'm getting close to updating the abstract, but there are still several points of contention. Are these features viable:

I still think that an USB port should be included, even more if "future expansion" is a concern. But anyway, aside from the possible problems with the HDMI license that others are pointing out, otherwise the features list looks good to me (and I assume that you just forgot to include the DB9 ports in the list).

By Grauw

Ascended (10000)

Grauw의 아바타

21-04-2021, 12:06

What OSSC did in their initial version to avoid HDMI license fees is to use DVI with an HDMI connector (so with separate audio out).

Though they did get HDMI eventually, not sure how, whether they paid the license fees psxdev mentioned or worked around it somehow, maybe there’s intermediaries who can register smaller HDMI developers under them.

By AxelStone

Prophet (3019)

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21-04-2021, 13:44

Why not VGA, like FPGAs? It's a very good connector, with less lag than HDMI and allows you to use modern LCD displays and also classic CRTs, with VGA -> Scart cable?

By Manuel

Ascended (18060)

Manuel의 아바타

21-04-2021, 14:10

Well, do we intend to connect the device to MSX monitors (15kHz analog RGB) or to modern displays? In the latter case, it's best to go digital as soon as possible and don't add conversions to analog in between, I think. On the other hand, if you stick to actual V99x8 chips, which only have analog RGB out, sticking to analog RGB output might be the best choice, so that you can both connect an MSX monitor and use an external converter (which are very good at their job) to connect a digital display.
If you reimplement the VDP, there is no analog output per se, so you can then directly do digital output and skip any conversions to analog... I think this is what the idea was of the cartridge that Maxim Vlasov was making, see https://www.msx.org/forum/msx-talk/hardware/msx-hdmi-mutlime...

By ducasp

Champion (451)

ducasp의 아바타

21-04-2021, 15:33

Grauw wrote:

What OSSC did in their initial version to avoid HDMI license fees is to use DVI with an HDMI connector (so with separate audio out).

Though they did get HDMI eventually, not sure how, whether they paid the license fees psxdev mentioned or worked around it somehow, maybe there’s intermediaries who can register smaller HDMI developers under them.

If I´m not mistaken there are a few HDMI chips that receive digital video output and digital audio and crunch it all to a hdmi output and they already have keys pre-loaded, so the manufacturer have already paid for that. That is the solution used on SM-X, it doesn't work on many HDMI devices because OCM outputs weird resolution to HDMI TV world, but changing that output resolution to a TV friendly one, it should work.

By erpirao

Paragon (1195)

erpirao의 아바타

24-04-2021, 13:07

By ren

Paragon (1855)

ren의 아바타

24-04-2021, 13:54

Regarding HDMI my opinion: screw that & their fees. Analog out + OSSC or similar for digital upscaling.

I wonder if e.g. the OSSC wouldn't do a better job anyway (+ more configurable) than a possible built-in digital upscaler will/can do?

Plus I figure people will want to connect to their analog displays Smile

By JEckert

Rookie (22)

JEckert의 아바타

20-05-2021, 17:02

I have got more projects to do at my job, so my focus shifted away from this project. Hence why I want extra hands with more experience with MSX hardware to collaborate on GitHub. Doing this alone would stall the project.

Needless to say, digital video out is the only option. It's cheaper, and it allows for use on today's displays. Since the V9958 outputs raw RGB data through a built-in DAC, an FPGA application of the V9958 would exclude DAC logic and adapt signal output to hard-code interpolation and scaling to 720p, the most common compatible output, with options for higher resolutions if there is room for it. We should minimize signal conversion overhead and keep the MSX-C affordable. Off-the-shelf scalers won't do us help with that objective.

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