MSXdev - The End of an Era

MSXdev - The End of an Era

by wolf_ on 10-03-2012, 18:38
Topic: Challenges
Tags: MSXdev
Languages:

All good things come to an end. And unless you're a firm believer of reincarnation, things that have ended remain a memory forever. MSXdev'11 has resulted in nine new MSX1 games - including games that are classy, in fact one could say that the 2011 edition was significantly better than some other editions. Still, other aspects of the whole organisation of this yearly tradition lead to the announcement, today, that the 2011 edition was the last one.

This contest was conceived to bring back some life into the MSX1 after it had more or less left the MSX scene to make place for high end productions. MSX1 was dead.. or was it? During the MSXdev years, debates popped up regularly about MSXdev being the cause of the so called 'death' of other MSX generations; MSX2, MSX2+, turbo R and the custom expansions such as Moonsound and Graphics9000. During the contest, debates popped up as for whether the rules should allow later generations as well, these discussions kept coming, one could set the clock to it. After each announcement, at least someone would come up with the 'can there be a place for MSX2?'-remark. Year after year.

Gradually, the specifications have moved up however. While the first editions were all about modesty (small ROM, little RAM), over years these aspects have evolved in what became a good consensus: a MegaROM with 64KB RAM. The contest has seen winners spread among all these figures; from small games to megaroms, from PSG-only to SCC games. Also, support for FM-PAC popped up in some entries. Some games have even supported an MSX2 palette.

So, this is it. A tradition has now become a fond memory. Will someone pick up this tradition? The #msxdev compo, may just be able to fill up the gap. The future will tell..

Relevant link: MSXdev

Comments (37)

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9746)

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10-03-2012, 19:53

Oh rats, I eventually didn't expect this after the harvest of dev'11 ..

By ro

Guardian (4072)

ro's picture

10-03-2012, 20:35

ah, shoot! msxdev was the best thing MSX had the last decenia. thanx for the show, may we enjoy it for years to come.
r.i.p.

By Jorito

Mr. Ambassadors (1761)

Jorito's picture

10-03-2012, 20:47

Too bad, msxdev was a good initiative to keep people making games for MSX. Hopefully some other contest will fill up the void, so people will have deadlines again and will actually finish stuff.

By Latok

msx guru (3640)

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10-03-2012, 21:33

I'd say #msxdev compo is a good replacement Smile

By commodorejohn

Expert (92)

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10-03-2012, 23:19

I wish it would've occurred to them that "there’s no any guarantee that the same high enthousiasm can be reached as in 2006" is a self-fulfilling prophecy when you cancel the contest...

By SANDAR

Supporter (7)

SANDAR's picture

10-03-2012, 23:46

Sad news. 

I've always been a passive lurker, but msxdev has always been the thing I've looked most forward to.

By syn

Paragon (1909)

syn's picture

11-03-2012, 14:09

yeah ive been following msxdev for a while now as well.. too bad really ..

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9746)

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11-03-2012, 14:43

I wonder whether there has been any attempt to find a new team prior to pulling the plug..

By benedick

Resident (36)

benedick's picture

11-03-2012, 14:56

The contest was awesome! It generated a level of excitement like nothing else in the msx community. I put all my hopes in msxdev compo now. Ganbare!

By viejo_archivero

Paragon (1372)

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11-03-2012, 15:46

You should take a look at Karoshi MSX Community ;) ... more info to be unveiled soon!

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (6172)

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11-03-2012, 16:10

IMHO msxdev should rest in peace. 
It is time for new fresh blood: msxdev compo
http://msxbanzai.tni.nl/compo/

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5468)

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11-03-2012, 16:36

IMHO msxdev should rest in peace. 
It is time for new fresh blood: msxdev compo
http://msxbanzai.tni.nl/compo/

Saying that is not respectful for the passionnate MSX1 lovers.
Don't misunderstand me, I'm a MSX2 big fan with all its audio extensions, but the big problem of the new compo will come with the impossible comparison between too different games (or demos, ...) because comparing a 'simple' MSX1/PSG game with a MSXturboR/MoonSound/GFX9000 game does not have any sense.

By viejo_archivero

Paragon (1372)

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11-03-2012, 16:36

Nah, np with Artrag comment. Also, we plan to encourage people wanting higher spects to join #msxdev compo. So everythings ok, except MSXdev resting in peace... we won't let it die, that's for sure! BA-team

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9746)

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11-03-2012, 17:11

because comparing a 'simple' MSX1/PSG game with a MSXturboR/MoonSound/GFX9000 game does not have any sense.

Perhaps, but that simple MSX1/PSG game would ended up last anyway, because it would've lost to a high end MSX1/PSG game. When the competition is between a simple MSX1/PSG game and a high end G9k/Moonsound game, then the ranking would be identical.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5468)

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11-03-2012, 17:16

'simple' is not simple. It's intentionnally that I've added the '.
Many people think that MSX1 games are simple, but it's not always the truth.
'simple' is here a MSX1 game with very special programmers tricks.
So, how can you compare it with a turboR/MoonSound/GFX9000 game ??? It's impossible mission.

By commodorejohn

Expert (92)

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11-03-2012, 18:58

I agree with mars2000you; no disrespect to #msxdev, but it does look to be a different sort of contest than MSXDev was. I'd like to compete against other games on standard hardware. I will, therefore, be watching the thread over at Karoshi with great interest Smile

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (6172)

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11-03-2012, 20:01

On msx1, I think we have seen almost everything  was technically possible and, in comparison, msx2 and TR are practically unesplored (also emulators are much more inaccurate).
Having a standard msx2 section in msxdev compo (or wherever) colud help to fill the gap.

By spl

Paragon (1461)

spl's picture

11-03-2012, 22:37

http://msxdev.msxblue.com/?p=1535

MSXdev’12 is coming !

No, you are not dreaming. No, I don’t have changed my mind. But MSXdev’ will not die. I had even written : “Maybe the idea of a new pure MSX1 contest will see the light in the minds of other people, but it will be without me (mars2000)“.

My yesterday’s announcement to stop the organization of the MSXdev’ contests has been the starting point for many discussions on the Spanish forums, and faster than I could have imagined, an unexpected option has convinced many people to give a future to these great MSX1 contests : since 2012 edition, they will be organized by the very active Karoshi MSX Community.

By Manuel

Ascended (15359)

Manuel's picture

11-03-2012, 22:45

Don't misunderstand me, I'm a MSX2 big fan with all its audio extensions

Um, as far as I know there are no MSX2 specific audio extensions... all MSX audio extensions work also on MSX1.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5468)

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11-03-2012, 22:49

Don't misunderstand me, I'm a MSX2 big fan with all its audio extensions

Um, as far as I know there are no MSX2 specific audio extensions... all MSX audio extensions work also on MSX1.

That's right, but most music disks or demos with music are for at least MSX2.

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9746)

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11-03-2012, 23:01

there will be a complete newspost as soon as the rules are up..

By MäSäXi

Paragon (1884)

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12-03-2012, 08:09

Sad sad news..

I agree with mars2000 and Commodore John, it feels odd to compare Turbo R and MSX1 games together. Maybe that may work with MSX1 games which have best graphics+sound+playability, but audiovisually simple but otherwise good games may not get the respect they should have.

On msx1, I think we have seen almost everything  was technically possible and

I don´t agree. Technically MSX1 may have pushed to it´s limits certain ways, but when you think it, there are MANY things that still can be done within MSX1 technical limits. Sure, there have been many games published in MSX-Dev, but when you think how many 8-bit games there have been in the 80s on all popular machines, you can understand, that there are MANY games having very nice looking things which can be done using MSX1 hardware!

Let´s say there are 10-20 (just a guess) msx-dev games which have pushed MSX1 to it´s technical limits. That does NOT mean every possible graphical idea or every possible sound effect or musical style is already used in msx-dev. We all can understand that. Smile There are still lots of things to do with MSX1 limits. You cannot go over MSX1 technical limits (without extra hardware), but you can do LOTS of more things within those limits. Smile

There are still really many things (used in 1980s games on other 8bit computers) which are not seen on MSX1 yet.

By PingPong

Prophet (3278)

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12-03-2012, 10:14

.....

Saying that is not respectful for the passionnate MSX1 lovers.
Don't misunderstand me, I'm a MSX2 big fan with all its audio extensions, but the big problem of the new compo will come with the impossible comparison between too different games (or demos, ...) because comparing a 'simple' MSX1/PSG game with a MSXturboR/MoonSound/GFX9000 game does not have any sense.

I do not think it's not respectful. compo context does not exclede msx1. It allows more than msx1.
Where is the lack of respect.

By Huey

Prophet (2642)

Huey's picture

12-03-2012, 10:29

MSXdev’12 is coming !

Haha, WTF!
Pulling the plug while people are already in line to continue..........

By PingPong

Prophet (3278)

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12-03-2012, 12:38

.... there are MANY things that still can be done within MSX1 technical limits.
.... there are MANY games having very nice looking things which can be done using MSX1 hardware!
.... You cannot go over MSX1 technical limits (without extra hardware), but you can do LOTS of more things within those limits..... Smile

Please let us know, what can be done..... Do not say void word about teory

There are still really many things (used in 1980s games on other 8bit computers) which are not seen on MSX1 yet.

And probably will never see any of those things. MSX, like any other hw have it's limits. they can be stretched, but are still here.

By PingPong

Prophet (3278)

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12-03-2012, 12:56

MSXdev’12 is coming !

Sometimes they are back...  

By hbarcellos

Hero (559)

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12-03-2012, 14:34

May I suggest that, instead of having no prize at all, organizers could offer something simbolic that would represent all the glory of winning the MSXDEV combo?
Like one of those "poker" bracelets. The item must have no real $$$ value at all. Would only be something exclusive just so the coder can proudly use it (at MSX fairs! Smile) and show it to his friends...

By hbarcellos

Hero (559)

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12-03-2012, 17:30

Everytime I reply to a topic, it's automatically locked for everyone else! NICE! Tongue

By MäSäXi

Paragon (1884)

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12-03-2012, 17:39

No no. Pingpong, of course MSX1´s technical limits are there and will stay there, I don´t mean doing anything what can´t be done on MSX1. I just mean there are many many nice ideas what are used in 1980s games on other computers and can be done on MSX1 too. Just play enough early to 1985 Commodore 64 games and you will see lots of nice little graphical ideas and ideas about different kind of wacky sound effects, what are not used on MSX yet, but can be done. That is what I am talking about. I don´t mean going beyond MSX1´s technical limits. I mean that MSX game programmers have just used their own ideas and their own imagination, there´s lots of imaginative things to program into MSX1 (and MSX2 and upward too) games. Simple examples: How many MSX1 games do you know, where game hero chooses letters to enter your name, like Commando´s hero shooting chosen letters or two bulldozers´ and elevators doing the same job in Bounty Bob Strikes Back? 

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5468)

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12-03-2012, 17:41

Everytime I reply to a topic, it's automatically locked for everyone else! NICE! Tongue

Really ??? Hannibal

By nanochess

Master (218)

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12-03-2012, 17:43

mars2000you has done a great thing keeping alive the MSXdev for so many years. In fact this seriousness is what made me to participate in the MSXdev'10 and later in MSXdev'11.
He has been always helpful and friendly with each one of my messages.
It is unfortunate that he has choosed to depart from MSXdev contest.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5468)

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13-03-2012, 19:22

nanochess, thanks for your nice words. You can always contact me, even if the MSXdev team does not exist anymore.
You can also get good advices on the Karoshi forums where I'm also active (besides, these forums have a private messagery).

By hit9918

Prophet (2853)

hit9918's picture

14-03-2012, 07:38

comparing a 'simple' MSX1/PSG game with a MSXturboR/MoonSound/GFX9000 game does not have any sense.

How about giving multiple oscars. Or in that case, Penguins SmileSmile

The Penguin for technical achievement shall strongly take into acount which machine was used.
I see 4 categories : graphics / sound / technical achievement / gameplay+idea

So e.g. an MSX1 game could still win in technical achievement. While e.g. another game wins with an awesome moonsound track.

By viejo_archivero

Paragon (1372)

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14-03-2012, 10:41

btw, hbarcellos suggestion about something like a bracelet is brilliant! :D :D :D

By hbarcellos

Hero (559)

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14-03-2012, 15:52

@viejo: thanks! I hope you're not being sarcastic! Smile But I really think it would be a good idea.
Even myself would try to participate in order to win!! Those would be extremely exclusive.

Like an old boss of mine used to say: EVERYTHING YOU CAN BUY WITH MONEY, IS CHEAP!

By viejo_archivero

Paragon (1372)

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14-03-2012, 16:20

@hbarcellos: nah, not being sarcastic, it could be fun. Perhaps just a simple badge with a nice design on it could do the trick!

By PingPong

Prophet (3278)

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17-03-2012, 09:57

comparing a 'simple' MSX1/PSG game with a MSXturboR/MoonSound/GFX9000 game does not have any sense.

How about giving multiple oscars. Or in that case, Penguins SmileSmile

That's an interesting idea