MSXdev'12

MSXdev'12

by wolf_ on 11-03-2012, 22:44
Topic: Challenges
Tags: MSXdev
Languages:

The king is dead, long live the king! Shortly after the former MSXdev team announced that the popular MSXdev contests grinded to a halt, a new organizer knocked the door. And with that, the traditional MSXdev is back on track. But, is it actually a new organizer? Behind this new contest is the Karoshi MSX Community, and it looks like Pitpan and Viejo_archivero are back at the steering wheel again, like they were in the early editions of these contests. Or, at least they're somewhat overseeing the whole process while the Karoshi forum regulates the contest further. In the past years Viejo_archivero set up Relevo Videogames, and hasn't managed to find time to his Hyper Soldier Angel yet - it has missed several MSXdev years already. Tao Te Ching was right: going on means going far, going far means returning!

The rules

  • Game format is non-mapped ROM files, so no MegaROM this time
  • RAM size has been limited to 16KB
  • There will be no jury but the Community itself. The winner will be selected through a poll at the forum boards.
  • There will be no prizes this time, just the spirit of being voted as the best.
  • Each team/individual should create, maintain and update a thread for its entry with all updated information about the project
  • Contest deadline: December 15th, 2012

So, clearly a few differences compared to the last editions that allowed 64KB system RAM and Megaroms. This new MSXdev'12 allows 16KB system RAM and 48KB ROM max. This year, however, there are two 'MSXdev' contests; the minidev and the maxidev. For small and medium sized MSX1 games there is this new MSXdev'12, for anything bigger than this, there is the 'anything goes' #msxdev contest by MSX Banzai in which you can use all the horsepower you can find for MSX.
One could wonder which of these contests could have been perfect for MSX1 games like Shalom, Nemesis, Maze of Galious and such. At the moment they're too big for MSXdev'12 yet their potential may be on the small side if the #msxdev contest unleashes great games for turbo R, Graphics9000, Moonsound and such. This comparison between MSX1/PSG and the meatiest MSX imaginable seems to be an on going concern among MSX fans. However, real Megaroms are somewhat rare among traditional MSXdev entries, perhaps the ROM limit of 48KB is not that much of a problem.. we can only wait 'n see!

In short, the challenge of fusing graphics, music and code into a great MSX1 game is on again. Who would've thought.. Good luck!

Relevant link: MSXdev'12

Comments (41)

By Huey

Prophet (2644)

Huey's picture

12-03-2012, 11:55

48Kb ROM. Ouch. oO

But understandable. Go MSXdev'12!!

By PingPong

Prophet (3448)

PingPong's picture

12-03-2012, 14:19

OK! for starting let's make a in-thema game: rotten zombie returns! sprites are here: 
Umh, no, ops. We can't. msx1 cannot nearly reach this graphic level...
nor with can't store similar data in only 48 KB.

Let's retry with YASPC (Yet another stupid pong clone) , then ... 

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9769)

wolf_'s picture

12-03-2012, 14:45

Second post, this must be a record! Running Naked in a Field of Flowers

By Huey

Prophet (2644)

Huey's picture

12-03-2012, 14:57

@PingPong: Whut????? 

Just Curious. Did we ever see anything from your hand on MSX?

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

12-03-2012, 15:19

Hihihi, PingPong already has the name of the game he will submit in his nickname Tongue

Still, I share the sentiment about MSX1 again...

By commodorejohn

Expert (92)

commodorejohn's picture

12-03-2012, 16:00

...dammit, there's no way Radish Sabre is going to happen under those limitations. Guess it's #msxdev then... :/

By viejo_archivero

Paragon (1372)

viejo_archivero's picture

12-03-2012, 16:11

@PingPong: Rite if you are talking about pixel perfect conversion of those graphics. Konami's original version of Nemesis had great gfx, scrolls and visuals, just like the zombie you posted, but they found the way for a very nice MSX conversion. I mean, let MSX lovers live Wink

By Wolverine_nl

Paragon (1037)

Wolverine_nl's picture

12-03-2012, 16:34

Ah well, my current project is MSX2,
so probably no entry from my end as a newcomer to the online MSX scene Wink
I will be curious if some1 is able to create an original idea for this on MSX1 under 48kb

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (6243)

ARTRAG's picture

12-03-2012, 16:48

With 48KB rom and 16KB ram, unfinished projects from past competitions will be out.
Neither I think anything original can came with the above constrains (even if megarom isn't a guarantee of high quality).
Anyway, we will see.

By viejo_archivero

Paragon (1372)

viejo_archivero's picture

12-03-2012, 17:31

ARTRAG: "With 48KB rom and 16KB ram, unfinished projects from past competitions will be out."

They went out from the contest just when MSXdev was dead a couple of days ago. Anyway, they can always join #msxdev compo, lots of cool games will be released there, that's for sure! why not joining it?

I mean, there were lots of discussions about this already, and finally we all have 2 development contest to choose: one with restricted specs but fully compatible with all MSXs, and other one not only allowing every generation, but also every extension you can imagine. Where's the problem? The actual scenario is what everyone asked for since years! Question

By commodorejohn

Expert (92)

commodorejohn's picture

12-03-2012, 18:42

The problem is that not every project falls precisely into "48K unmapped ROM" or "Turbo-R democoder mega-production." Look at Gradius 2, that's MegaROM+SCC, but it's nothing like, say, Metal Gear 2 or Snatcher. What I have planned for Radish Sabre would fit a lot more comfortably into MSXDev than #msxdev, but with the new restrictions it's just not feasible. It's not an MSX2 game, but if it has to go in #msxdev I might find myself stepping it up to MSX2 anyway just so it's less out of place.

By MsxKun

Paladin (920)

MsxKun's picture

12-03-2012, 18:58

Quite pointless to complain about specs. If your game doesn't fit a contest, try another contest. If doesn't fit either, release it out of contest. Make the game you want, release when you want, that easy...

By Gradius2

Hero (574)

Gradius2's picture

12-03-2012, 19:08

Congratulations guys, keep the good work!

By hap

Paragon (2021)

hap's picture

12-03-2012, 19:12

Good news!
If small romsize is the rule, fine Smile I'd personally prefer 32KB then though: 48KB can be a hassle to load from disk.

By PingPong

Prophet (3448)

PingPong's picture

12-03-2012, 19:33

Hihihi, PingPong already has the name of the game he will submit in his nickname Tongue

Still, I share the sentiment about MSX1 again...

Then try to make a better job than konami one. Otherwise is crapware

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5512)

mars2000you's picture

12-03-2012, 19:46

Then try to make a better job than konami one. Otherwise is crapware

Not the opinion of Japanese fans about MSXdev' games or RELEVOVIDEOGAMES productions :

http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA054130/msxdev.html

http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA054130/firstestmachine_msx1...

http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA054130/firstestmachine_msx1...

http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA054130/firstestmachine_msx1...

By MsxKun

Paladin (920)

MsxKun's picture

12-03-2012, 20:10

48K ROM are easy to load from disc.
It's as easy as type: ODO game.rom

By PingPong

Prophet (3448)

PingPong's picture

12-03-2012, 20:35

Then try to make a better job than konami one. Otherwise is crapware

Not the opinion of Japanese fans about MSXdev' games or RELEVOVIDEOGAMES productions :

http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA054130/msxdev.html

http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA054130/firstestmachine_msx1...

http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA054130/firstestmachine_msx1_scroll.html#INVASION%20OF%20THE%20ZOMBIE%20MONSTERS

http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA054130/firstestmachine_msx1_scroll.html#Lotus%20F3

What are you saying ? there is no pingpong game from relevo..... 

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5512)

mars2000you's picture

12-03-2012, 20:45

If your universe is limited to PingPong, then take a look at NeoPONG512 (not a Relevo game, but a MSXdev game)

Of course, I was not speaking about only PingPong game !!! Nishi

By PingPong

Prophet (3448)

PingPong's picture

12-03-2012, 20:56

@mars2000you: to be clear:
jorito said: "my new game is your nickname" or similar meaning.
i've replyed:"then make a better game then konami one otherwise is crapware"
this is the only meaning, there are no others.

So why speaking about relevo , neopong (YASPC) and so one? they have no relation with what i said before.

Now, it's clear, i hope.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5512)

mars2000you's picture

12-03-2012, 21:01

Many MSX1dev games are not crapware, that's my message.

When Jorito says "Still, I share the sentiment about MSX1 again", I don't think it's limited to PingPong game.

By Jorito

Mr. Ambassadors (1761)

Jorito's picture

12-03-2012, 21:14

LOL, apparently my comments were so confusing to y'all that I'll just explain them Tongue

Hihihi, PingPong already has the name of the game he will submit in his nickname Tongue

This is of course a joke refering to PingPong complaining that the limited specs of the compo will only allow simple games like Pong. And 'Pong' is the last part of his name Smile

Still, I share the sentiment about MSX1 again...

Also misunderstood, apparently. I'd like to see stuff for MSX2 and higher again. But this competition again  limits us to MSX1. After some 6 years of MSX1-only stuff, I'm quite fed up with MSX1, and I'd say it's time for a change.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5512)

mars2000you's picture

12-03-2012, 21:32

6 years of MSX1-only stuff ?

You seem to forget the 4 games submitted to the Passion MSX2 contests or MSX2 games released outside of any contest (Pengo for example).

By pitpan

Prophet (3131)

pitpan's picture

12-03-2012, 22:04

After some 6 years of MSX1-only stuff, I'm quite fed up with MSX1, and I'd say it's time for a change.

That was exactly my state of mind 10 years ago, but it was even worse, 'cause there were NO releases for MSX1 at all. That is why I decided to come up with MSXdev: to promote a constant flow of MSX games for the computer that I love. The formula, thanks to the many people involved, became finally successful and it is still working.

I think that there is enough space for different contests as long as they have different targets (I mean platforms and specs here), and please don't tell me again that 'cause MSXdev exists most MSX2 developers quit. This is not the case.

Keep the good work with #msxdev compo, it will be a success for sure. And if the first edition is not very popular, keep working on it! It is the long term that matters. MSXdev'03 was a total failure and we've reached now the 10th edition and more than a hundred games released. It is just a matter of patience and time.

I guess that the time for coding instead of patronizing has arrived. Thumbs up, guys! The MSX2 and higher geeks have their contest and the raw MSX1 retrograds have theirs: everything is fine! Everyone should be busy right now to meet the deadlines!

By PingPong

Prophet (3448)

PingPong's picture

12-03-2012, 21:47

6 years of MSX1-only stuff ?

You seem to forget the 4 games submitted to the Passion MSX2 contests or MSX2 games released outside of any contest (Pengo for example).
he is probably referring to msxdev.

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9769)

wolf_'s picture

12-03-2012, 22:17

Pitpan: I think the real problem is the amount of people and/or groups who are able to create a game. Making a game is intense, and in days like these people are working on one game at a time. So, if all these people/groups are putting their time into MSXdev, then the chances of them also making an MSX2/+/ext/ext game are slim.

And that's what has happened. In the past years, MSXdev was a reasonably constant factor, and the amount of MSX2/+/ext/ext games was slim.

We could split it all up into two sections, with 5 MSX1 games and 5 MSX2/+/ext/ext games (in another contest) each year, but with such figures the chances of both contests being labeled 'successful' are also slim. There's little fun competing when there's no competition.

If the scene would have like, say, 30 teams, all capable of creating a (quality) game across the whole MSX spectrum, then all this blah wouldn't be relevant. You'd get 15 MSX1 games while the other 15 are high end big hardware games.

By Vampier

Prophet (2297)

Vampier's picture

13-03-2012, 05:52

PWND3 - Escape From Mars?

By dvik

Prophet (2200)

dvik's picture

13-03-2012, 19:23

I think this is great news. Although I haven't had time to make any entries to msxdev last couple of years I still have hope to find time eventually. 

I see wolf_'s point about two compos potentially spreading the entries thin, but you need to realize that there are developers that doesn't have much interest in developing for MSX2(+), me included. I definitely enjoy following development of higher spec games and tools, but it is unlikely I'll get to the point of developing something myself. I think the same is true for some MSX2(+) developers that simply doesn't have much interest in MSX1, and then there are some that enjoys all of the systems. 

I'm quite confident that there will be good entries to MSXdev 2012 and I hope people find motivation to do good higher spec games for the other compo. But I don't think its fair to blame MSXdev for the lack of MSX2 games, its up to the developers that care for the higher spec systems to start working.

By viejo_archivero

Paragon (1372)

viejo_archivero's picture

14-03-2012, 10:42

@dvik: 100% agree

By PingPong

Prophet (3448)

PingPong's picture

14-03-2012, 12:53

I think this is great news. Although I haven't had time to make any entries to msxdev last couple of years I still have hope to find time eventually. 

@dvik: Recently, you bump into mrc very rarely, just to make some comment on threads and so on.
Do you have some secret demo in mind or development ?
We hope to hear you also for your ideas or productions, instead of simply know from your posts that you are following mrc.  Aka last heartbeat mode )
are time problem at the end?

By dvik

Prophet (2200)

dvik's picture

14-03-2012, 18:07

@PingPong: I know I've been pretty absent from the scene lately, but its not because of lack of interest, I just have a really hard time finding time. I have two small children, moved to a new city for a new job. Just too many other things going on atm. I don't have any secret projects going, but I hope to release Burn Rubber on cartridge for CV in not too long and hopefully foollow up with an MSX port. I also have some emulator fixes I need to do. So I don't think its the last heartbeat, I had low activity between 95 and 03 but interest has always been there.

By hit9918

Prophet (2867)

hit9918's picture

15-03-2012, 01:11

@pitpan, request: 32K ROM and then using 32K RAM shall be legal.
scrollers, sprites, software sprites, new methods need scratchpad RAM.

By hit9918

Prophet (2867)

hit9918's picture

15-03-2012, 01:58

@dvik, the emulator fixes, can you please include character masking?

By MäSäXi

Paragon (1884)

MäSäXi's picture

15-03-2012, 09:46

After some 6 years of MSX1-only stuff, I'm quite fed up with MSX1, and I'd say it's time for a change.

Let´s say you´re old car hobbyist who passionately concentrate on mid-eighties japanese cars.

Suddenly most car hobbyists start to concentrate on many decades older cars, making kustom hotrods, let´s say 95% of all car hobbyists concentrates only to hotrods and that continues year after year.

So, would you end your passionate love to mid-eighties japanese cars, just because all other people are making 1950s kustoms?

I personally will not EVER change my taste/hobby to oldies things just because mainstream are concentrating only to NEW things.

I don´t see the point of not making new MSX2 and upwards games just because many people likes to make MSX1 games. Was that passion-msx´s MSX2 contest a failure just because it produced "only" three new MSX2 games? I don´t think so. I don´t know the reasons why that contest wasn´t continued next year, but I think it cannot be a bad thing if you can get some new games for your beloved computer model. Smile

Hopefully at least someone understands what I am talking about. Smile I do hope that MSX2 and upwards owners will get new games now. I do hope that every MSX generation will get new games till the faraway future! Smile

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9769)

wolf_'s picture

15-03-2012, 10:32

Was that passion-msx´s MSX2 contest a failure just because it produced "only" three new MSX2 games?
Four games in two contest years, made by two groups. I'd say the failure was the lack of communication/promotion, like: "ok, here's this year's MSX2 contest, see you at the deadline, bye!"

By boomlinde

Resident (54)

boomlinde's picture

15-03-2012, 10:59

C64 coder here, will try to make an MSX game! Smile Right now I've got to figure out where to hook an interrupt handler and how to disable interrupt stuff I don't want... It's not very clear from the portar document.

By hap

Paragon (2021)

hap's picture

15-03-2012, 16:19

hit9918 did you see my reaction here? http://www.msx.org/forum/development/msx-development/new-hyb...
According to my test, it won't work on all VDP chips.

boomlinde if you want complete control over the IRQ handler, use IM2 or put RAM in page 0. If it's for msxdev12, then your only option is IM2. Or, if you can live with some extra cpu cycles wasted, just use the interrupt hook provided by MSX BIOS.

By Manuel

Ascended (15750)

Manuel's picture

15-03-2012, 21:49

boomlinde: very cool! Looking forward to that! Smile

By MäSäXi

Paragon (1884)

MäSäXi's picture

16-03-2012, 07:15

I'd say the failure was the lack of communication/promotion, like: "ok, here's this year's MSX2 contest, see you at the deadline, bye!"

Ok, I didn´t knew that, I didn´t follow it from passion-msx site, I just read something about it here. Such lack of communication and promotion does not sound good. Was that passion-msx contest two years long? Or were there two contests in two years? Then I can understand something, if there were no communication after announcement of new contest.

I was thinking that first msx-dev (2003) produced "just" three games (and one was not fully finished), and I didn´t think that was a failure, but a good thing, as there were new games for MSX(1).

By MäSäXi

Paragon (1884)

MäSäXi's picture

16-03-2012, 07:41

Boomlinde: Nice to hear that!! Smile I hope you can give some different and "new" views to MSX games with your game! I hope we can see some nice little things which have been used for decades in Commodore 64 games and demos. Smile

Commodore John, I hope you will make your radish sabre game the way it is now and not following these new "restrictions". Please do not spoil your game because of new contest rules. Make it the way YOU want to make it, not the way contest rules say. Smile

By commodorejohn

Expert (92)

commodorejohn's picture

16-03-2012, 21:06

Commodore John, I hope you will make your radish sabre game the way it is now and not following these new "restrictions". Please do not spoil your game because of new contest rules. Make it the way YOU want to make it, not the way contest rules say. Smile

I will; that's why I re-entered it in the #msxdev 2012 compo rather than MSXDev '12...