MSXVR available for pre-order

MSXVR available for pre-order

by PAC on 11-09-2019, 02:33
Topic: Hardware
Languages:

It took years of dedication and hard work, but it is finally here. The MSXVR, a computer compatible on hardware and software level with the MSX standard. This new MSX machine comes as a complete clone, including a mechanical keyboard and in different colors. Now available as pre-order.

This new MSX beast is based on a Raspberry PI 3B+ platform plus additional hardware. It was designed to have that real MSX look and feel experience. The thing sure looks like a regular MSX that just left the factory, already impressive. It is a complete piece of hardware with keyboard, LEDs, buttons, mouse/joystick port and what have you. It is fully compatibility with all MSX generations as well as extensions like MSX-MUSIC, SCC, MSX-AUDIO, OPL4 and V9990. Altho RCA is the old-skool method, there's HDMI to connect it to your modern tv/monitor as well.

The MSXVR will be delivered in a cardboard box, further enhancing that magical experience of having a new MSX in your hands. It's a treat. It comes in customizable design and is CE compliant.

The technical specifications are as

  • CPU 1,4Ghz - 64 bits - Quad Core
  • Memory 1 Gb (RAM/VRAM shared)
  • Max. video resolution 1920x1080x32bits - 1080p (60Hz)
  • HDMI audio-video out
  • Stereo RCA audio out
  • Composite video out
  • (3.5) stereo jack audio out
  • 2 DB9 MSX compatible game ports
  • 4 (50 pin) cartridge slots - MSX compatible
  • internal 16Gb SD card
  • Wifi
  • Bluetooth / hardware: YES, Software: NO (license pending)
  • Ethernet port
  • DB37-IO Interface
  • Power / Reset / VCC / Pause buttons
  • 9 LED (power + 8-User)
  • 4 USB 2.0 ports
  • PSU included (12V/10A - 100-240V - 50/60Hz)
  • Internal voltages 3.3V, 5V, +12V, -12V
  • Power switch
  • Power ON/OFF
  • (2.5) remote jack
  • Ext-keyboard port
  • Audio mixer slot
  • (3.5) microphone jack
  • CSI/DSI connector
  • Integrated mechanical keyboard - Standard 87 Keys
  • Software OS + Apps + Tools + VRBasic + VRDOS + VMachines + Online updates

From September, 6th 2019 to October, 1st 2019, the pre-orders can be made through MSXVR site (application form) and the final price is € 399.99.

Relevant link: MSXVR - pre-order process

Media browser (3)

  • MSXVR available for pre-order
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Comments (92)

By Spider

Resident (44)

Spider's picture

11-09-2019, 06:13

Raspberry Pi 3B + mechanical keyboard + physical slots + software emulation....
Am I missing anything?

By x1pepe

Expert (70)

x1pepe's picture

11-09-2019, 06:58

Spider, maybe you can do it...

By x1pepe

Expert (70)

x1pepe's picture

11-09-2019, 06:59

There's a great work.

By Ivan

Ascended (9092)

Ivan's picture

11-09-2019, 07:39

@PAC, you have missed quite a few things in the newspost: package contents, design (case, keyboard, CE marking,...), customization,... Not the best way to inform of such unique and professional product with so much hard work behind I would say...

Ordered one anyway! Cool

By hamlet

Scribe (2398)

hamlet's picture

11-09-2019, 07:53

Thank you Ivan for helping to complete this important facts. You are very welcome to submit a newspost by yourself, now that you proofed your skilles to investigate.
And thanks to PAC for publishing this news so fast.

By hamlet

Scribe (2398)

hamlet's picture

11-09-2019, 07:55

Great news! Nice and compact machine. Maybe the most complete way of MSXing.

By Takamichi

Master (207)

Takamichi's picture

11-09-2019, 08:00

Filled the application form and sent. According to my understanding, most countries are exempted from Spanish VAT so the VATless price 330.57 euro applies, right? (I'm Asian) Lack of numeric keyboard can be supplemented by external one. Smile

By Ivan

Ascended (9092)

Ivan's picture

11-09-2019, 08:16

hamlet wrote:

Thank you Ivan for helping to complete this important facts. You are very welcome to submit a newspost by yourself, now that you proofed your skilles to investigate.
And thanks to PAC for publishing this news so fast.

It's not PAC's fault nor yours nor mine. The MSXVR team itself should have posted the news, imho.

By knm1983

Champion (340)

knm1983's picture

11-09-2019, 08:22

Spider please read a complete information here.
https://msxvr.blogspot.com/p/info-en.html?m=1
It’s not only a RaspPi with mechanical Keyboard and slots.

Thanks to all team for this great work.

By Ivan

Ascended (9092)

Ivan's picture

11-09-2019, 08:30

knm1983 wrote:

Spider please read a complete information here.
https://msxvr.blogspot.com/p/info-en.html?m=1
It’s not only a RaspPi with mechanical Keyboard and slots.

Thanks to all team for this great work.

Indeed, this is not a Raspberry Pi inside a shoe box, it is a lot more than that.

By Ivan

Ascended (9092)

Ivan's picture

11-09-2019, 08:39

Btw, what are your case/keyboard colour preferences? I will probably choose the case in black with black/grey keyboard (or maybe the whole keyboard in black).

By Thom

Hero (567)

Thom's picture

11-09-2019, 08:43

Takamichi wrote:

Filled the application form and sent. According to my understanding, most countries are exempted from Spanish VAT so the VATless price 330.57 euro applies, right? (I'm Asian) Lack of numeric keyboard can be supplemented by external one. Smile

That only applies to companies, I guess?

By Takamichi

Master (207)

Takamichi's picture

11-09-2019, 10:31

Thom wrote:
Takamichi wrote:

Filled the application form and sent. According to my understanding, most countries are exempted from Spanish VAT so the VATless price 330.57 euro applies, right? (I'm Asian) Lack of numeric keyboard can be supplemented by external one. Smile

That only applies to companies, I guess?

Theoretically VAT can be exempted when exporting anything from EU to outside, but you have to make application to do so. Some export companies do that. Try throwing something into a cart at Thomann website then change the "Shipping to" destination to a non-EU country then VAT is automatically deducted. I don't know how to really manage that though.

By Latok

msx guru (3656)

Latok's picture

11-09-2019, 11:05

Are there pictures and videos which show the actual machine? So no rendered images of the hardware and videos of the screen. I know there are plenty of those. What I'd like to see is the real hardware. The real casing. The real books.... Could you please make images and videos of those? Thank you Smile

By AbrahamCas

Expert (75)

AbrahamCas's picture

11-09-2019, 11:08

Great project, i´ve just ordered mine in red with grey/black keyboard.

It is a greatfull effort to build a new MSX computer, yes they use a raspi as brain but it isnt just a raspberry running retropie or similar and connect a mechanical keyboard. On hardware hand It implements a complete board with 4 slots and the management of clock, voltages, peripherals, leds, buttons,etc... On the software hand they have depeloped their own software(VRDOS,VRBASIC,VRSCRIPT for easely create new programs, etc..). All it with warranties, european seals of safety and quality and the aproval of Mr Nishi. All made in a small scale production with the risks it represents.

All my support for this project and good luck!! Cool

By Ramon Ribas Casasayas

Supporter (1)

Ramon Ribas Casasayas's picture

11-09-2019, 12:25

Hello Taka (and by extension Thom)

As far as I know, all the residents/companies outside EU should pay net price, without VAT. Another issue are the applied taxes when the goods are introduced in that country.
When it comes to EU nationals, VAT is that of the selling country.
When it is a company that buys the item, within the same country they can deduct if the purchase is related to the activity of the company. All this at the quarterly VAT declaration.
If it is a UE company purchasing at another EU country, and they have the VAT number registered at VIES, you deduct VAT automatically.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1289)

Kai Magazine's picture

11-09-2019, 12:44

Finally it's here!
Pre-order placed.

I (as many other people) have seen this machine working in person in various stages of development at Spanish fairs.
Anyway you can see some videos from that official info page in which they are using the device.
This video for example:

video from the msxvr page

I hope they sell many hundreds of units.
Good job and good luck!

By Meits

Scribe (5457)

Meits's picture

11-09-2019, 12:46

I'd like to know what slot numbers those 4 slots are. Is that information available somewhere? Could it be 1-0, 1-1, 2-0 and 2-1? I can imagine a 1-0 and 2-0 have to be available. And what would a slot expander do in any of these slots?

By Latok

msx guru (3656)

Latok's picture

11-09-2019, 13:23

Kai Magazine wrote:

Finally it's here!
Pre-order placed.

I (as many other people) have seen this machine working in person in various stages of development at Spanish fairs.
Anyway you can see some videos from that official info page in which they are using the device.
This video for example:

video from the msxvr page

The computer in that video has a different layout than the rendered image you see at the pre order page. Why?

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1289)

Kai Magazine's picture

11-09-2019, 13:53

They have designed and tried a number of casings over the years.
My guess is the final casing differs from the one used in the prototype because they re-designed it once again.

By journey

Champion (357)

journey's picture

11-09-2019, 14:22

AbrahamCas wrote:

Great project, i´ve just ordered mine in red with grey/black keyboard.

You've already received the email where to choose the color?

By Pablibiris

Paragon (1747)

Pablibiris's picture

11-09-2019, 14:54

Spider wrote:

Raspberry Pi 3B + mechanical keyboard + physical slots + software emulation....
Am I missing anything?

Blah blah blah....
I want mine NOW! Big smile

By Takamichi

Master (207)

Takamichi's picture

11-09-2019, 15:05

@Kai Magazine: I saw your Myths and Dragons demo on MSXVR Big smile

I received the reconfirmation email. I was right, I didn't have to pay the VAT! Smile And right now I only had to pay certain percentage of the full price.

By ro

Guardian (4104)

ro's picture

11-09-2019, 15:08

mechanical keyboard /w blue cherry switches for the win !

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1289)

Kai Magazine's picture

11-09-2019, 15:37

Takamichi wrote:

@Kai Magazine: I saw your Myths and Dragons demo on MSXVR Big smile

Yes, Myths and Dragons and Life on Earth work correctly on msxVR, even on msx2 and 2+ modes! I have seen it myself Smile
Running Naked in a Field of Flowers

By santiontanon

Paladin (807)

santiontanon's picture

11-09-2019, 15:39

@Latok, yeah, there are lots of videos of the actual hardware! Just go check the Youtube channel of the creators, and you can see many videos showing the different prototypes. I understand the models shown on the latest videos correspond (or are very close) to the final product. It's pretty cool!!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeSLSJ9KfbI6oR2hoq_NXCw/videos

By x1pepe

Expert (70)

x1pepe's picture

11-09-2019, 20:46

Kai Magazine wrote:

Finally it's here!
Pre-order placed.

I (as many other people) have seen this machine working in person in various stages of development at Spanish fairs.
Anyway you can see some videos from that official info page in which they are using the device.
This video for example:

video from the msxvr page
Hi! Alberto. I'm happy to see just you're interested in the MsxVR. Only God knows all you can make
With this computer.
Good job and good luck!

By x1pepe

Expert (70)

x1pepe's picture

11-09-2019, 20:49

Sorry I'm a little mixed up with the "quotes" oO

By x1pepe

Expert (70)

x1pepe's picture

11-09-2019, 22:48

I like very much the red one.
One for me!

By DRomero

Expert (94)

DRomero's picture

11-09-2019, 22:49

Fantastic piece of hardware! Ordered mine as well, black case with grey/black keys Smile

By konamiman

Paragon (1035)

konamiman's picture

12-09-2019, 09:59

Regardless of whether you consider MSXVR to be the next generation MSX we were waiting for or the most sophisticated MSX emulator ever made, it's a really amazing project! Smile

By karloch

Prophet (2058)

karloch's picture

12-09-2019, 11:23

I do not understand people complaining about the Raspberry Pi or emulation; I think using a Pi is a very smart decision, so they do not have to reinvent the wheel in terms of computing capability -not to mention how this lowers the costs of the solution-, and they can focus their efforts on the surrounding hardware that renders the MSX feel.

By the way and if I recall correctly, it was blessed by Nishi via konamiman, so that should finish any discussion about the project being amazing or not Tongue

I have pre-ordered mine Smile

By Grauw

Ascended (8309)

Grauw's picture

12-09-2019, 12:16

Is the OS / emulator open source?

By AbrahamCas

Expert (75)

AbrahamCas's picture

12-09-2019, 13:39

Hi!,
Yes, i've received first mail for choosing parameters and explaining the payment, etc.... and when i paid i received confirmation of my preferences and personal data.
Regards Cool

By journey

Champion (357)

journey's picture

12-09-2019, 14:03

AbrahamCas wrote:

Hi!,
Yes, i've received first mail for choosing parameters and explaining the payment, etc.... and when i paid i received confirmation of my preferences and personal data.
Regards Cool

Same for me now! thanx! Cool

By Parn

Champion (388)

Parn's picture

12-09-2019, 15:44

I don't want to sound like a basher, but I'm kind of skeptical about emulation performance when using max emulated specs, like turboR with V9990 and OPL4. I'm also curious about what parts of this are open source. Are the OS and emulator open source? Are they based on open source projects like Linux and OpenMSX? Nevertheless, I think this is the closer anyone has ever gotten to what could be a "philosophically correct" new MSX model, so I wish them success.

By PhilipsMSX

Supporter (13)

PhilipsMSX's picture

12-09-2019, 16:02

Of course I thought a real computer NEW MSX of a real brand. But can we consider this project as reliable and interesting?
Sounds serious (although a lot in Spanish, and how to use?)
https://msxvr.blogspot.com/
Although owning a Panasonic MSX Turbo-R FS-A1GT, I am super pleased with all the initiatives since 1995 to make Hardware. I unfortunately missed the MSXPC made in Japan. (Sad)
I have a question a little stupid perhaps for this computer: Who would not have any more of MSX software at home, can buy this computer and operate (via internet access) for example File-Hunter or WebMSX? Or, download games (from PC) and then run them on this computer?
Thank you for your clarification (since indeed 2 friends who sold everything on MSX, could buy it but they have more games).

When we watch videos with this MSXVR we have the impression that it is idling (music games) I wonder if It's in real speed 60hz or if like between 1986 and 1990 I got caught with my Philips in 50hz ...

By ren

Paragon (1215)

ren's picture

12-09-2019, 17:13

Congrats to the team reaching this stage.

Quite curious how it will compare w/ real hw & the FPGA solutions (compatibility, input latency, sound quality etc.)

One thing though: I don't see openMSX mentioned anywhere, isn't that what the emulation core is based upon?

In how far is your core compatible still with 'upstream' openMSX?
Is there perhaps some code / work done openMSX could benefit from, which might find it's way to the repository at some point?

By ro

Guardian (4104)

ro's picture

12-09-2019, 17:59

By Samor

Paragon (2026)

Samor's picture

12-09-2019, 19:30

Incredibly ambitious project. I wonder what the emulation is based on. The keyboard looks very nice.

*I'm watching the presentation video now and it seems to be bluemsx based, but with some implementations taken from openMSX.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUCToyYcyzY

By Hydragon

Paladin (690)

Hydragon's picture

12-09-2019, 19:51

First congratulations on the progress and the stage you are in.
399,99 euro, considering it's not even a real MSX and it will never get to that point, it's in my opinion very much overpriced.
I would rather buy some real MSX's for that money.

By Ivan

Ascended (9092)

Ivan's picture

12-09-2019, 20:44

Hydragon wrote:

First congratulations on the progress and the stage you are in.
399,99 euro, considering it's not even a real MSX and it will never get to that point, it's in my opinion very much overpriced.
I would rather buy some real MSX's for that money.

Actually it is very cheap. Buy a TurboR (not new of course) fully loaded (slot expander, RAM expansion, MoonSound, GFX9000,...) and then tell me the total price.

For those who say it is an emulator I have never been able to plug any MSX real hardware into my "econobox" PC running openMSX, BlueMSX, fMSX, RuMSX, etc. Those MSX cartridges do not fit into the PCI slots... Tongue

By Hydragon

Paladin (690)

Hydragon's picture

12-09-2019, 20:56

Ivan wrote:

Actually it is very cheap. Buy a TurboR (not new of course) fully loaded (slot expander, RAM expansion, MoonSound, GFX9000,...) and then tell me the total price.

For those who say it is an emulator I have never been able to plug any MSX real hardware into my "econobox" PC running openMSX, BlueMSX, fMSX, RuMSX, etc. Those MSX cartridges do not fit into the PCI slots... Tongue

I would rather have all the different items, ow wait a min, allready got most of it along with plenty machines at home.
And I do recall there used to be an MSX Player with a Game Reader Wink It's just that current emulators as far as I know are not capable yet, to support such device, maybe they will at some point, would be great though and an even cheaper solution for use Big smile

By Manuel

Ascended (15600)

Manuel's picture

12-09-2019, 21:32

Samor wrote:

Incredibly ambitious project. I wonder what the emulation is based on. The keyboard looks very nice.

*I'm watching the presentation video now and it seems to be bluemsx based, but with some implementations taken from openMSX.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUCToyYcyzY

Alberto told me there is no openMSX code in it (anymore), due to problems adhering to the GPL. As blueMSX is also licensed under the GPL, it is probably also not based on blueMSX code (anymore). But Alberto can tell :)

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1289)

Kai Magazine's picture

12-09-2019, 21:39

Parn wrote:

I don't want to sound like a basher, but I'm kind of skeptical about emulation performance when using max emulated specs, like turboR with V9990 and OPL4.

You can put your mind at ease by watching this video which shows the VR running Myths and Dragons (v9990) with opl4 on Turbo R mode.

By psxdev

Rookie (28)

psxdev's picture

12-09-2019, 22:31

Hydragon wrote:
Ivan wrote:

Actually it is very cheap. Buy a TurboR (not new of course) fully loaded (slot expander, RAM expansion, MoonSound, GFX9000,...) and then tell me the total price.

For those who say it is an emulator I have never been able to plug any MSX real hardware into my "econobox" PC running openMSX, BlueMSX, fMSX, RuMSX, etc. Those MSX cartridges do not fit into the PCI slots... Tongue

I would rather have all the different items, ow wait a min, allready got most of it along with plenty machines at home.
And I do recall there used to be an MSX Player with a Game Reader Wink It's just that current emulators as far as I know are not capable yet, to support such device, maybe they will at some point, would be great though and an even cheaper solution for use Big smile

Bluemsx has support for game reader but only on Windows 32 bit xp/2000 and it has some limitations because it is using propietary dll from msxplayer but i released a code a few days ago to use game reader under different unix/linux flavours using libusb. Check msxGameReader

Bluemsx support is on the way for my port for PlayStation 4, so add to vanilla bluemsx and openmsx is doable without propietary drivers

I am looking for a full open solution software/hardware if someone is interested to help can contact with me on Twitter @psxdev or directly on github repository

By psxdev

Rookie (28)

psxdev's picture

12-09-2019, 22:36

Manuel wrote:
Samor wrote:

Incredibly ambitious project. I wonder what the emulation is based on. The keyboard looks very nice.

*I'm watching the presentation video now and it seems to be bluemsx based, but with some implementations taken from openMSX.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUCToyYcyzY

Alberto told me there is no openMSX code in it (anymore), due to problems adhering to the GPL. As blueMSX is also licensed under the GPL, it is probably also not based on blueMSX code (anymore). But Alberto can tell :)

And if Alberto does not tell us we will know when we will analyze the binaries. I would like more an open solution for the community but he is free to choose a closed solution if he is compliant with license of libraries/projects that he is using on VR

By Parn

Champion (388)

Parn's picture

12-09-2019, 22:36

Kai Magazine wrote:

You can put your mind at ease by watching this video which shows the VR running Myths and Dragons (v9990) with opl4 on Turbo R mode.

Oh, I didn't see this video before. Thank you, it's looking pretty good indeed. John Hassink's soundtrack sounds very impressive as well. :)

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1289)

Kai Magazine's picture

12-09-2019, 22:48

John hassink did an incredible job with the soundtrack of this game.

By Grauw

Ascended (8309)

Grauw's picture

12-09-2019, 22:56

I was asking about open source because during software development I encounter emulation issues from time to time (both in software and FPGA), and if the source is open I can research the problem a bit myself which may hasten the fix, also I would still want to be able to get things fixed 5 or 10 years from now even if the developer has moved on, so I don't need to add workarounds.

By Pablibiris

Paragon (1747)

Pablibiris's picture

12-09-2019, 23:02

Obviously, a commercial product, which has cost many hours and a lot of money from the developer's pocket ... it is logical that it's not open source at least in the early years ^^
And yes...I think THIS is the real MSX3 Tongue
(Thanks Nishi for your bless Tongue )

By Latok

msx guru (3656)

Latok's picture

12-09-2019, 23:33

How should we call Nishi his own MSX project then? Smile

By erpirao

Paladin (913)

erpirao's picture

12-09-2019, 23:34

Latok wrote:

How should we call Nishi his own MSX project then? Smile

msx4

By Manuel

Ascended (15600)

Manuel's picture

12-09-2019, 23:38

Pablibiris wrote:

Obviously, a commercial product, which has cost many hours and a lot of money from the developer's pocket ... it is logical that it's not open source at least in the early years ^^

Making it open source doesn't mean you will lose your money/investment...

What is the worst that could happen when open sourcing?
What is the best that could happen?
What do you expect will happen?

By Grauw

Ascended (8309)

Grauw's picture

12-09-2019, 23:58

Pablibiris wrote:

Obviously, a commercial product, which has cost many hours and a lot of money from the developer's pocket ... it is logical that it's not open source at least in the early years ^^

I don’t agree with that reasoning at all. There is nothing obvious about it. The 1chipMSX was open source from the beginning (source and schematics were provided on the CD), and look how alive that platform is today, over a decade later. Owners of an original 1chipMSX can use many new features compared to the release and continue to receive updates despite the original developers not being involved. Not to mention the hardware still being available from several manufacturers (in the spirit of MSX Smile). Open source gives many benefits to the users. It is a great boon to any project. Only good will come of it.

Closed source projects going open source later in their lifetime, that usually only happens when the developer abandons the project, and those type of open source projects typically have a hard time taking off since there is no interest anymore.

By msxvr

Supporter (16)

msxvr's picture

13-09-2019, 09:09

Yep! and I'm sorry .. I was a bit busy .. I will try to explain where the code of this computer comes:

- 1988 -> My first PHILIPS MSX VG-8020 .. Magical moment .. hundreds of fairies were born
- first MSX emulators appeared (fMSX, RuMSX, etc) ... I was trying to build my first MSX emulator too using the famous MSDOS-Protected mode and Borland C in VGA 256 colors .. it has rained since that day. I remind letters exchanged (real letters not Internet emails) with Daniel Zorita, famous MSX programmer in Spain, asking about VDP, etc. and he sent me my first V9938/58 and TurboR manuals.
- I collaborated too programming the SPC sound chip of an MSDOS SNES emulator (chanka's emulator)
- My first tries to make MSXBASIC compatible emulations with PSG, SCC, OPLL, Z80 and VDP9938
- 1998 -> I started my engine .. the engine that uses MSXVR internally ... TODAY: the emulation part of all this engine is 10% (I have calculated counting code lines of all the parts).
- 2006 -> MonsterHunter and MSXDev winner ... an increible MSXTurboR arrived at my home (my dream!) .. I would say it was the first MegaROM created in SDCC.
- 2012 -> MSXBASIC Simulator 5.0 - it seems the simulation was improved and it gives me ideas for the MSX3
- 2014 -> MSX3 presentation - all this MSXBASIC and programming and emulation focus in this MSX3 concept based in a software point of view and not hardware point of view.
- 2019 -> MSXVR preorder

Well .. I need to clarify .. all my MSX investment during this 30 years in terms of learning and discovering information are from: webs, datasheets, friends and the emulators: fMSX and BlueMSX.
BlueMSX visual studio gaves me the possibilty of learning, debugging and compare with logging some devices and of course, I have eyes and I know from up to down the BlueMSX code but my code was born before than BlueMSX and furthermore is C++. By the way ... Dvik you are a master!

Since 2 or 3 years ago .. I introduced V9990 + OPL4 in the emulation core .. all this part was directly from OpenMSX .. the OpenMSXTeam knows that .. I tried to arrive to some kind of agreement with them but (I respect 100% their decision) .. they told me that I should respect the GPL if I use their code. Well .. since some weeks ago I started my own V9990 + OPL4 core and I will need time to get a good emulation .. I hope to be a decent emulation at the began of the next year.

About other libraries used by the engine, all them are Free or LGPL, so a native DLL exists in the operating system.

I don't know if you can/want believe my words but I can't say another thing.

More over ... MSXVR Team will never recover in financial terms .. I can sure you .. never in 1000 lives ... the time, efforts, suffering, time to enjoy with the family against to be in front of the computer ... never ... and the risk exposed to create, product and finally offering this product ... sometimes I stop and I think ... you are idiot Alberto .. because my motivation .. my energies .. absolutly 100% of all this .. and I don't know how is possible .. are motivated by the MSX ... just a three letters .. incredible ...mmm.. well .. I'm sorry ... I am just fallen in a drama TV serie moment Smile

I hope all this amount of words will be useful for something. Many thanks to all the people that support my work and specially the MSXVR ... this days have been really magic for me .. I hope really that we can pass the preorder stage and the MSXVR will come a reality. I love you!

Best Regards,
Alberto

By raymond

Champion (377)

raymond's picture

13-09-2019, 10:02

I made a news submit to a popular Dutch tech website called Tweakers. They have made a news article about the MSXVR on Tweakers.

By MVARELA

Champion (317)

MVARELA's picture

13-09-2019, 10:06

Made in Spain...Spain rules!

1 Red for me.

By Grauw

Ascended (8309)

Grauw's picture

13-09-2019, 11:18

Grauw wrote:

I was asking about open source because during software development I encounter emulation issues from time to time (both in software and FPGA), and if the source is open I can research the problem a bit myself which may hasten the fix, also I would still want to be able to get things fixed 5 or 10 years from now even if the developer has moved on, so I don't need to add workarounds.

So I think the answer is no, it is not open source?

That’s a shame. If users report issues in my software on the MSXVR I will redirect them to you.

The machine looks astounding btw Smile.

By msxvr

Supporter (16)

msxvr's picture

13-09-2019, 11:33

I would want to share some parts of the project because obviously .. I think is good for the project and I know there are a lot of good programmers there. But I need to do in private way .. SVN repo and showing things and hidding another things, just that .. some control over the code.

By Thom

Hero (567)

Thom's picture

13-09-2019, 12:40

I've ordered one (Am I the first from The Netherlands?). Red case, gray/black keyboard.

MSXVR seems to be the only device so far which has all the things I want:
1) Built-in tools to be able to toy around with the MSX (that's what made MSX stand out in the first place)
2) HDMI (no need to buy an OSSC)
3) Integrated keyboard, so it's really a stand alone device

By DarkSchneider

Paladin (854)

DarkSchneider's picture

13-09-2019, 13:12

I like it because that's exactly what I had in mind about if MSX would continue, a low-cost ARM based computer with good software for learning. Also compatible with old software by almost perfect (we assume perfection is not probable) emulation , and old hardware as extra, as probably on current MSX (year 2019) it wouldn't be included by default but as extra (external device).

Then, I understand the great investment effort in many ways, so I am fine with the closed solution. By this the MSXVR cannot be considered a new MSX because it breaks the main rule, open architecture, but anyway it can be used like a computer, and is a solution to have a full TurboR machine plenty of devices into one single device.

But, I ask, once the sales down, so it is not even profitable because the taxes, this is, it gives you less than the spanish SMI, plus paying the RETA, have you though about doing it open from that moment? By that way it could become a new MSX standard.

By Parn

Champion (388)

Parn's picture

13-09-2019, 15:03

msxvr wrote:

I hope all this amount of words will be useful for something. Many thanks to all the people that support my work and specially the MSXVR ... this days have been really magic for me .. I hope really that we can pass the preorder stage and the MSXVR will come a reality. I love you!

Of course your words won't go to waste. I think it's not an exaggeration to say the release of this product will enter MSX history, since it's the first complete MSX-like computer made from top to bottom by enthusiasts. Your words will be recorded into history as well.

This system's phylosophy is very close to what I came to believe as a true MSX successor. It's not exactly what I dreamt, of course, but close. Personally I'm a bit more interested by the hardware side of things (mechanical keyboard, handsome MSX-like unit, Raspberry Pi-based), and it's kind of inexpensive for all it comes with. Wishing lots of success.

By Manuel

Ascended (15600)

Manuel's picture

13-09-2019, 21:16

DarkSchneider wrote:

Then, I understand the great investment effort in many ways, so I am fine with the closed solution

So, you think that all open solutions did not involve "big investments effort in many ways"?

msxvr wrote:

I would want to share some parts of the project because obviously .. I think is good for the project and I know there are a lot of good programmers there. But I need to do in private way .. SVN repo and showing things and hidding another things, just that .. some control over the code.

What is the advantage of the private way?
What would you like to hide?
What kind of control do you need and why do you think you would have no control?
What are you afraid of?

By tfh

Paragon (1768)

tfh's picture

13-09-2019, 22:39

/edit/
Nah, forget it Smile

By Pablibiris

Paragon (1747)

Pablibiris's picture

14-09-2019, 02:09

Is the developer and he can do what he wants with his product.
That's all.
The GR8Net is a closed project and I haven't heard anyone complain about it......(an example among many others)

By Ivan

Ascended (9092)

Ivan's picture

14-09-2019, 09:35

I haven't paid much attention to the keyboard chosen for the MSXVR but it seems that the Cherry MX is probably the best option out there (and they are not inexpensive).

By Ivan

Ascended (9092)

Ivan's picture

14-09-2019, 09:56

MVARELA wrote:

Made in Spain...Spain rules!

1 Red for me.

Yeah but I'm not sure that all members of the MSXVR team are Spanish. If I remember correctly there were 1 or 2 Dutch guys next to Alberto at a users' meeting.

By msxtrd

Master (199)

msxtrd's picture

14-09-2019, 12:34

How much in prepayment, and when the rest must be paid?

By Sebbeug

Master (218)

Sebbeug's picture

14-09-2019, 12:36

The dictatorship of open source... Paradoxical...

As lot of MSX fans, i followed this projet from start.
Today it's reality, so i applause, i pay and that's all !

I'm a little dev on my free time, and when i decide to keep original code for myself, then it's just a problem between me and me.

GREAT JOB Alberto... Respect !

By x1pepe

Expert (70)

x1pepe's picture

14-09-2019, 13:01

Sebbeug wrote:

The dictatorship of open source... Paradoxical...

As lot of MSX fans, i followed this projet from start.
Today it's reality, so i applause, i pay and that's all !

I'm a little dev on my free time, and when i decide to keep original code for myself, then it's just a problem between me and me.

GREAT JOB Alberto... Respect !

Respect

By Grauw

Ascended (8309)

Grauw's picture

14-09-2019, 13:33

Why do you say dictatorship when I just ask a question and indicate my preference and reasons?

It may not be important for you but for me it is when it concerns a new MSX type, and it was not mentioned anywhere in the article, so that’s why I asked. No need to get all defensive about it.

By tfh

Paragon (1768)

tfh's picture

14-09-2019, 13:37

Grauw wrote:

Why do you say dictatorship when I just ask a question and indicate my preference and reasons?

It may not be important for you but for me it is when it concerns a new MSX type, and it was not mentioned anywhere in the article, so that’s why I asked. No need to get all defensive about it.

I think they are responding to Manuel's post, not yours.

By Sebbeug

Master (218)

Sebbeug's picture

14-09-2019, 14:53

Exactly Smile

By raymond

Champion (377)

raymond's picture

15-09-2019, 13:53

Tried to pre-order, however I get an error message:

Error - Your preorder has not been started. Please, try again. Thank you!

Furthermore, how many pre-orders are necessary to be able to start the production? And when are the first MSXVR machines going to be delivered?

By Thom

Hero (567)

Thom's picture

15-09-2019, 15:26

raymond wrote:

Tried to pre-order, however I get an error message:

Error - Your preorder has not been started. Please, try again. Thank you!

I got the same message over and over again. So I sent the information via e-mail (preorder@msxvr.com) and within a couple of hours they contacted me.

By konamiman

Paragon (1035)

konamiman's picture

15-09-2019, 17:41

raymond wrote:

Furthermore, how many pre-orders are necessary to be able to start the production? And when are the first MSXVR machines going to be delivered?

According to the preorder confirmation email, the planned steps are:

1. Preorder (and first payment): until October 1st. Before this date it's possible to cancel a preorder and get a refund.
2. Second payment, including supplement for case color other than red if requested: November 1st. The amount of the supplement will depend on how many people wants each color. At least 10 requests of a given color are needed for it to be produced.
3. Third payment (shipping costs) and beginning of shipments: February 2020.

No information is available on how many preorders are needed to start production, but I guess that in October 1st we'll know if the goal has been achieved or not Smile

By RCastillo

Resident (37)

RCastillo's picture

15-09-2019, 20:35

I made the first payment. I recognize that I am very excited to buy a MSX with high quality standards at this time Running Naked in a Field of Flowers

By erpirao

Paladin (913)

erpirao's picture

15-09-2019, 20:54

konamiman wrote:
raymond wrote:

Furthermore, how many pre-orders are necessary to be able to start the production? And when are the first MSXVR machines going to be delivered?

According to the preorder confirmation email, the planned steps are:

1. Preorder (and first payment): until October 1st. Before this date it's possible to cancel a preorder and get a refund.
2. Second payment, including supplement for case color other than red if requested: November 1st. The amount of the supplement will depend on how many people wants each color. At least 10 requests of a given color are needed for it to be produced.
3. Third payment (shipping costs) and beginning of shipments: February 2020.

No information is available on how many preorders are needed to start production, but I guess that in October 1st we'll know if the goal has been achieved or not Smile

and nishi who knows about this?
Have you talked to him lately?

By konamiman

Paragon (1035)

konamiman's picture

16-09-2019, 10:08

More information is available: Alberto was the guest star on the AmigaWave podcast yesterday (in Spanish). He said that at least 350 preorders are needed to start production, and so far 300 people have preordered.

Quote:

and nishi who knows about this?
Have you talked to him lately?

He knows. In fact Alberto also said that he received an email from him saying that he was really impressed with the project and he wanted to buy one when available. That was one year ago, though (one day after I talked to him about the project), not sure if he remembers now.

I haven't been able to contact Mr. Nishi since I very painfully and indirectly got his ok for the Nextor license, also one year ago.

By MSX Calamar

Resident (56)

MSX Calamar's picture

16-09-2019, 10:29

Great job, Alberto!
I have preordered one for me! Running Naked in a Field of Flowers

By gaula82

Rookie (27)

gaula82's picture

16-09-2019, 11:22

Wow, selling an emulator running on 35 Euros hardware on the free GNU/Linux OS for 400 Euros is quite an accomplishment. Better yet, a closed-source emulator! What could go wrong?? oO

Some people in this thread are about to learn a painful lesson... for a high price, that is.

Software emulators running on ANY operating system are bound to have loads on audio and video lag. Thats because of buffers. Buffers are unavoidable due to the inherent jittering present in those modern, multitasking OSes.
Its OK because most software emulators are free, so theres nothing to complain about: OpenMSX for example has needed MANY years to mature to the point its now, so all you will get with this MSXVR thing is either a poor emulator or a stolen OpenMSX/BlueMSX deployment in a 35 Euros computer for 400.
But hey! It has cartidge slots!! Yeah, but it can NOT access the cartidges in realtime as a real MSX or an FPGA implementation because the Pi buses have nothing in common with MSX. (FPGAs CAN access cartidges in realtime because they are an electronic-level implementation of the MSX hardware). So, in this MSXVR abortion, carts have to be dumped into ROMs in order to be used.

Thats all you will get: a very expensive cartidge dumper that plays ROMs on an obscure and half-baked emulator (or stolen, who knows since this POS will be closed-source).

Stay away from this shit. Use FREE and open-source emulators, or if you are a purist then go FPGA or real HW.
There are MANY options, its up to you. But dont let this people rip your money.

By hamlet

Scribe (2398)

hamlet's picture

16-09-2019, 13:48

@gaula82: It sounds like you're talking about a new Apple product! LOL!
Guys, please don't feed the troll!

By warmize

Rookie (23)

warmize's picture

16-09-2019, 12:40

@gaula32 Seems that you have not read, heard or viewed nothing about MSXVR or you have a wrong idea about it. You are not the first nor the last in missunderstanding what MSXVR is. And it also seems that you think you are smarter than anyone else that has read, heard and viewed MSXVR stuff. You even have changed your nickname a while ago?
I have seen MSXVR working, asked a lot of questions (got all of them answered) and think very differently from you. For instance, MSX cartridges can be dumped BUT don't need to be dumped to be played. That's a big difference. About the emulator it has been widely explained how it has been developed.
Please, if you don't like something don't buy it. If you have questions just make them. But don't lie about something that you dislike or you are not interested in.
Smile

By gaula82

Rookie (27)

gaula82's picture

16-09-2019, 12:54

@warmize: You dont give any technical explanation on why am I wrong on what I exposed (APIs, lag, closed-source development on GNU/Linux AKA tivolization, etc), just the same general mumbo-jumbo about how "cool" this MSXVR thing is. But the fact is that its just a poor MSX emulator on GNU/Linux running on a 35 Euros computer, trying to sell for 400 Euros. Nothing more, nothing less.
Well, you can prove I am wrong, cant you? Oh, you cant. Its just what I said.

By tfh

Paragon (1768)

tfh's picture

16-09-2019, 14:03

@gaula82
Hmmm, no realtime access to the cartridge? Only ROM dumping & play?
Can you tell me how the 2nd part of this video works where he uses an Obsonet cart to connect to HispaMSX BBS?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgAwnABXOq0

So that is only the first thing where you are wrong.
For the rest: Yes, it's emulation. Yes, there will be lag & there will be flaws. 35 Euro's? Have you checked what other hardware goes inside that machine? Do you have any idea what it costs to make molds for plastic-injection? Or the keyboards? And since it's closed source, you have no clue on how good (or bad for that matter) the emulation is. Nor do I or anybody else btw.
Don't get me wrong: I'm not buying the device either since I already have a Zemmix-Neo on my desk which suits my needs. And I do wonder if Alberto has any idea on what he is getting himself into with the production of these machines and I really do hope everything works out well.

And if I didn't have my Zemmix-Neo, I even might have been tempted to buy the MSXVR. Sure, emulation will not be perfect. But it will probably be good enough for a lot of people.

By konamiman

Paragon (1035)

konamiman's picture

16-09-2019, 13:35

@gaula32 Your concerns about the emulation accuracy/performance and the dangers inherent to the closed (code-wise) nature or the project might be legitimate. You might be right, or not. But what you can't do is coming here and start treating the project creators as if they were almost criminals.

There's plenty of information about MSXVR published in the project blog, and Alberto has spent countless hours answering any question he has received via email. There are Youtube videos showing a MSXVR at work, and several people have seen it working in MSX user meetings. You can't call this project a scam by any measure.

Did you notice any slowdown, any emulation inaccuracy or any other problem in any of the public demonstrations made (live or in YouTube)? Great, then please go ahead and point it to us. Do you have benchmarks, tech specs for the components used, or any other type of data to back your claims? Awesome, please share. But if all you have to say is "this shit is expensive and isn't going to work", then please don't say anything.

And of course, we are all adults and we're going to spend our money however we want, thanks.

By Thom

Hero (567)

Thom's picture

16-09-2019, 14:08

I already have a rPi with Retroarch and blueMSX. Works fine. I finished the excellent game Night Knight using WebMSX in google Chrome on Windows 10. Not one single hiccup. OpenMSX is the best we've ever had, especially when developing software.

So, let's wait and see how good it is (or isn't). I don't think it's very motivating for people to create new things if all they are getting is testosterone-fuelled poetry.

By warmize

Rookie (23)

warmize's picture

16-09-2019, 13:51

"FPGAs CAN access cartidges in realtime because they are an electronic-level implementation of the MSX hardware". Ok....have you even asked @msxvr how they do this work? Or you don't even mind? What's your opinion about the use of a PCB?
If someone ever builds a FPGA, can you say it would be perfect and bug free?

By gaula82

Rookie (27)

gaula82's picture

16-09-2019, 13:59

@konamiman: It uses a Raspberry Pi to emulate an MSX computer in software. Specs of the Pi are everywhere to be seen. Its not about specs or speed, but selling a 35 Euros GNU/Linux machine for 400.
Its not about raw power either, its about inherent jittering, buffering and ultimately lag.
Its not about how good his privative emulator is: its just impossible to be any better than, lets say, OpenMSX, because a single person can NOT develop a good emulator (by todays standards) in a short time. Either his emulator sucks or he plans to use other peoples work.
There is no option: if its running on GNU/Linux (and it IS), theres only SDL1, SDL2 and RetroArch as the possible APIs. He is not using RetroArch, which leaves us with SDL1 and SDL2, both poor options for emulation because of the audio/video synchronization issues because of which libRetro was created in the first place.
Anyway, he is building his business on an opensource kernel, opensource libraries, and a small single board computer thats supposed to be very cheap. Awful.

By Pablibiris

Paragon (1747)

Pablibiris's picture

16-09-2019, 14:32

Every word you write leaves you more in evidence. If you had informed yourself, just a little, maybe could you speak coherently. Keep writing, it's fun to read how you're wrong with every sentence you write Smile

By gaula82

Rookie (27)

gaula82's picture

16-09-2019, 14:42

@Pablibiris: Not like your comment, full of technical information that invalidates mine oO