MSXdev09 changes poll down, old magazines poll up

by wolf_ on 21-03-2009, 14:37
Topic: MRC
Tags: Polls
Languages:

The poll publication scheme is a bit off at the moment, but nonetheless a new poll has been prepared. Prior to going to the new poll, let's have a look at the outcome of the MSXdev'09 poll which ran for the past 3 weeks. What could be changed for MSXdev'09 compared to MSXdev'08? After 40 votes, here is the result:

  • Nothing, just let it be like MSXdev08 27.50%
  • Something else 17.50%
  • Go for six-month time frames 15.00%
  • Stick to MSX1 but without further limitations 15.00%
  • Go back to average specs 15.00%
  • Go back to the smallest specs 10.0%

MSXdev'09 in the style of MSXdev'08 got most of the votes. It's not unthinkable though that people may have wanted to vote on multiple items. Based on the comments in the poll reactions, one can say that opinions are mixed. Ever since MSXdev got wide attention (somewhere during MSXdev'04, which caused MSXdev'05 to become the most popular edition so far), there have been discussions about specifications. Typically there seem to be two camps: the retro-minded MSX1 people, and those who want more RAM, more ROM, more recognition for supported extensions, higher MSX platforms, in short: more meat. The logical solution would be to move the high-specs developers to a different contest, question is whether this will work. There seems to be an odd attraction to MSXdev, which causes people to stick to it regardless of any other contest. This must certainly put the organization into a difficult position. At one hand MSXdev remains the contest aimed at all MSX platforms, although people generally agree that this keeps the core architecture of a game down to MSX1. While formally the term 'MSX1 contest' may not be agreed on by the MSXdev organizers, much more than MSX1+ (MSX1 with MSX2 features such as palette) is probably not something we can expect. On the other hand more and more people are complaining about the lack of games for higher platforms and, in a way, point to MSXdev for causing this. The MSXdev organizers could choose to ignore the requests for allowing higher platforms to compete (or completely free-style as some people have suggested), but there may be the risk that developers choose to leave their MSXdev tradition and just develop an MSX2/+/tR game on their own. This would hopefully still result in the release of a game -which is good-, but may leave the entry count for MSXdev'09 at the low side. On the other hand, the MSXdev organizers may state that there are other contests for higher platforms. There may be a point in that, but other contests may need to prove them self towards the large audience MSXdev already has gained over the years.
All in all it's a complex situation. As someone stated in the comments, it's almost inevitable that something must change. Because, while the entry count of MSXdev'08 was equal to MSXdev'07, there is this feeling that developers were perhaps a tad less motivated during MSXdev'08. Whether there will be changes, and what these changes may eventually be, is all up to the organizers. And with that, enough about this contest!

Do you still read your old (paper) MSX-magazines you collected in the 80's and 90's? And with reading, we mean: pick a magazine on a rainy day or before sleeping, and just read it all over again. Magazines from 1985 reviewing MSX1 computers, magazines from 1987 reviewing Konami MSX2 games, magazines from 1990 reviewing Japanese import, magazines from 1992 reviewing diskmagazines, magazines from any year featuring assembly courses, columns, background stories etc. Are are you like: 'nah, old news', or 'by now I know everything already, or I read it online'? In short, how do you value paper magazines with old MSX news?

As a second question, which you may answer in the reactions, we'd like to ask you whether you would read a paper magazine which follows today's MSX news, be it with a delay of a few months of course. Not as an alternative to any daily updated MSX website, but purely to have something in which you can read back all the MSX news and articles on the couch during a rainy day, in the train or before going to sleep.

May the vote be with you!

If you have an idea for an interesting poll, send your idea to poll@msx.org and we will consider running your suggestion for a month.

Relevant link: Poll results

Comments (21)

By Ivan

Ascended (8983)

Ivan's picture

21-03-2009, 15:51

Please, stop questioning MSXdev!!! The results of the poll say it all!

"On the other hand more and more people are complaining about the lack of games for higher platforms and, in a way, point to MSXdev for causing this."

That's an unacceptable comment! And it shouldn't be in a newspost on the frontpage Sad

wolf_, do you want higher specs and MSX2/2+/turboR games? Then shift to other MSX development contest! But don't blame MSXdev! Or we all don't agree that it has brought us great MSX games? Question

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9560)

wolf_'s picture

21-03-2009, 16:26

Please, stop questioning MSXdev!!! The results of the poll say it all!
Merely summarizing comments.

"On the other hand more and more people are complaining about the lack of games for higher platforms and, in a way, point to MSXdev for causing this."

That's an unacceptable comment! And it shouldn't be in a newspost on the frontpage

I think it makes sense however (and again, there are people stating this, so I'm merely reporting). You can usually spend your time once, if you keep joining MSXdev, then you typically won't spend that time on possible MSX2/+/tR entries. It's not a matter of guilt however, don't try to read something negative in it. It takes two to tango, in this case MSXdev offers MSX1 specs, but developers keep complying with them. If there are too few higher-platform releases then one can look at those developers as well.

wolf_, do you want higher specs and MSX2/2+/turboR games? Then shift to other MSX development contest! But don't blame MSXdev! Or we all don't agree that it has brought us great MSX games?
I've stated already that the MSXdev specs are fine, although I think they should go back to the situation where support for extensions (like sound) was rewarded.

But, I agree, it's complex matter, there's no 100% truth in anything.

By PingPong

Prophet (2839)

PingPong's picture

21-03-2009, 18:46

The poll results does not reflect the real situation.
Next MSXDEV, if left untouched will tell us the truth.
Maybe that the last MSXDEV is not the worst one.....

By dvik

Prophet (2176)

dvik's picture

21-03-2009, 21:33

I agree with Ivan. This news post should be removed. Can you do that wolf_?

By Ivan

Ascended (8983)

Ivan's picture

21-03-2009, 21:36

On the other hand:we'd like to ask you whether you would read a paper magazine which follows today's MSX news, be it with a delay of a few months of course.Yes, of course! Everything on the Internet is highly volatile...

By Ivan

Ascended (8983)

Ivan's picture

21-03-2009, 21:47

Regarding a new printed magazine, what about a quarterly, half-yearly or yearly MSX almanac?

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9560)

wolf_'s picture

21-03-2009, 22:28

dvik: the post won't be removed. I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but that can be discussed here.

By dvik

Prophet (2176)

dvik's picture

21-03-2009, 22:32

Well maybe its not something directly wrong, but its a really poorly written post. You should be able to do better wolf_.

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9560)

wolf_'s picture

21-03-2009, 22:34

Details please? I've just read over it again, minutes ago, haven't seen anything odd. At best it's a post that leads to a debate about the subject, which is good.

By dvik

Prophet (2176)

dvik's picture

21-03-2009, 22:36

I think its basically a repeat of your opinions written in the poll discussion. I hardly think it qualifies as a summary of all opinions. I'm not at all saying you shouldn't have opinions, but perhaps not use them in a summary post like this. It would have been better if you had written an objective summary and then posted comments with your own reflections.

By Ivan

Ascended (8983)

Ivan's picture

21-03-2009, 22:42

Is MSXdev guilty? Absolutely, for bringing us great MSX games! Wink
But not for the low ratio of MSX2/2+/turboR game development...

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9560)

wolf_'s picture

21-03-2009, 22:53

'Guilty' is not the right word, and it's not written like that in the newspost. A comparison of how I meant all that:

There're cafes town. Cafe 1 offers free beer, cafe 2 offers only pay-beer. Where do the people go? To cafe 1. Result: a nearly-empty cafe 2. Now, the cafe 2 and the few people that stay behind won't say that cafe 1 is 'guilty', but they do say that it's due to cafe 1 that cafe 2 is empty.

Don't get me wrong: MSXdev is great, I (we, inf) tried to do something for dev08 (missed, but may go to dev09), dev07 (missed, but became MJTT), dev06 (missed, but hacked together RNFF in 3 days), and dev05 (U:U, somewhat rushed, but nonetheless a fun entry). I'll be the last one not to promote challenges like these. But I do also see a slight change of trends among the developers, that's what I'm trying to pinpoint here. In all cases, it's up to the dev organizers to choose their path.

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9560)

wolf_'s picture

21-03-2009, 23:08

Or, you know what, skip the price of the beer. Just assume that cafe 1 was there first and has their regulars who won't be trying out cafe 2. I guess that's closer to the actual situation.

By Ivan

Ascended (8983)

Ivan's picture

21-03-2009, 23:22

wolf_, Passion's MSX2 contest, well, lets say Cafe 2 Wink, has great prizes (as MRC contests have had, too). No reason to blame Cafe 1! I agree with dvik that the newspost is basically written based on your own perception, but alas it has been already posted...

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9560)

wolf_'s picture

21-03-2009, 23:41

I wasn't specifically aiming at that passionmsx contest btw. My cafes are more like 'msxdev+msx1' and 'everything else'. Tongue

And as for 'my opinion', I based these on remarks from the poll reactions and on reactions earlier in other threads. It's a subject I'm quite interested in, and I remember the things being said, on forums, in newsposts, on fairs etc.

By Ivan

Ascended (8983)

Ivan's picture

21-03-2009, 23:46

I wasn't specifically aiming at that passionmsx contest btwAnd I know it, I've used Passion MSX2 contest as an example of non-MSX1 contest...

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (5761)

ARTRAG's picture

22-03-2009, 00:42

Humm, Ivan, wolf's summary seems correct to me.

Given a certain amount of spare time, all what you spend on games for msxdev will not be spent on other projects for more advanced platforms.
Joining to a pure msx1 competition does subtract resources to the design of games for the other platforms.
And it is normal that, knowing that the "msx1+" features will not be evaluated, hardly someone will try to use more HW than the minimal specs.

The point is that IMHO two independent competitions cannot survive both (look at MRC challenge....).
The scene is too small and it is becoming smaller and smaller.

Moreover msxdev is the most known and appreciated competition, it is normal that all the active developers will try to join to this competition and not to others newer but less prestigious

I cannot guarantee that rewarding "msx1+" features will give new life to msxdev, but it seems to me the most reasonable solution to:

1)add a new challenges and possibilities to the developers (the trend shows a progressive loss of interest for msxdev as it is now)
2)do a little step towards those who complains for the lack of msx2/2+/TR games
3)promote the diffusion of "new" HW (flash SCC, msx audio,GFX9000 or whatever the developers will be able to use provided that it is a “plus” to the minimal specs)

my two cents

By PingPong

Prophet (2839)

PingPong's picture

22-03-2009, 13:45

i must agree with wolf and ARTRAG post .
They say what is only a objective analysis of the situation.
just my two cents

By viejo_archivero

Paragon (1372)

viejo_archivero's picture

24-03-2009, 18:36

Well, from this poll we can state lotsa lectures. Here you have mine: most people at the MRC (52.50%) want the contest to keep the specs as is, or even with smaller specs ("Nothing, just let it be like MSXdev08" 27.50%, "Go back to average specs" 15.00%, "Go back to the smallest specs" 10.0%). If we add the others wanting to keep the games MSX(1) compatible ("Stick to MSX1 but without further limitations" 15.00%) we have a grand total of 67.50% people not wanting to lose the MSX(1) compatibility for the contest.

This way, it is nice to see that big amount of MRC regulars feeling that the basis of the MSXdev contests are good as they are right now. The "Go for six-month time frames" (15.00%) opinion, is something we may consider for the next edition too (we have opinions out of this poll that point to that possibility too). But well, this is something the MSXDEV Team must discuss in the near future Wink Thnx for voting!

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (5761)

ARTRAG's picture

24-03-2009, 19:51

Vejo,
note that at least one user reported problems in registering his/her vote for option "something else" and that 3-4 votes for option "same as before" suddenly appeared in the last two three days, just before closing the vote.
Independently from the interpretation of the single options, I would not bet on the solidity of the poll outcome.

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9560)

wolf_'s picture

24-03-2009, 20:38

A debate about the subject is just as important as plain votes.

My MSX profile