One Chip MSX FAQ

by Bazix on 30-07-2005, 19:49
Topic: MSX Revival
Languages:

Bazix have opened a One Chip MSX FAQ on their website, revealing a lot of new information on the One Chip MSX and taking away several uncertainties that existed on the One Chip MSX. Here, you can find an overview of the most important information that has been revealed:

  • The One Chip MSX will be configured as a special MSX1 computer by default, offering 256kB of RAM, MSX-MUSIC, MSX-DOS2 and FAT16 support
  • The SD Card is hot swappable and can be accessed due to the implementation of a MegaSCSI interface in VHDL
  • The VHDL code to achieve MSX1 compatibility will be included in the One Chip MSX package, together with a few other VHDL code examples
  • The schematics to the One Chip MSX PCB will be included as well
  • The FPGA core can be updated from MSX-DOS using a special MSX-DOS tool
  • Configured as an MSX2 with MegaSCSI, MSX-MUSIC and SCC support, about 91% of the Logical Elements availabe are in use. The code to the implementation of Z80, MSX-MUSIC and VDP has however not yet been optimized to use as little Logical Elements as possible. All three cores can, by estimation, be optimized to use only 50% of the amount of Logical Elements from what they are using in the current development version

The One Chip MSX can be pre-ordered at Bazix from this page until August 20th, 2005.

Relevant link: One Chip MSX FAQ

Comments (95)

By djh1697

Paragon (1409)

djh1697's picture

30-07-2005, 21:40

I am not sure if this question has already being asked, but why does the one-chip MSX1 show the boot screen of MSX2, with 128k of VRAM? If Bazix was in to UK the company would be dealt with by trading standards for mis-leading advertising. The one-chip MSX1 only has 16k of VRAM, i don't understand ?

By Ivan

Ascended (9115)

Ivan's picture

30-07-2005, 21:57

It also says "MSX Cartridge slot" while the picture of the PCB has 2 cartridge slots. My guess: it's the first "development" board with the almost finished MSX2 configuration.

You are right, this is not what is going to be sold. I hope that Bazix will update soon their page with pictures of the final design of One Chip MSX.

By SLotman

Paragon (1215)

SLotman's picture

30-07-2005, 22:06

Bad, bad, bad... the only good thing was to see that VGA output works... but mono output, 91% of the FPGA taken, no MSX2 emulation, no keyboard and the case STILL to be chosen (common, how much time do they need to specify that?). And still the cable issue...

In my opinion for THAT price or the cable should be bundled or it should be MSX2, but as it is, at least for me, its not worth it :/

By Ivan

Ascended (9115)

Ivan's picture

30-07-2005, 22:07

Supercharged MSX1... Nice!

By Ivan

Ascended (9115)

Ivan's picture

30-07-2005, 22:16

Bad, bad, bad... the only good thing was to see that VGA output works... but mono output
http://www.bazix.nl/faq_can_i_use_the_rca_connectors_as_independant_stereo_outputs.html

91% of the FPGA taken, no MSX2 emulation
http://www.bazix.nl/faq_how_many_logic_elements_are_being_used_in_the_msx_configuration.html

Hey man, have you read the FAQ?

In my opinion for THAT price or the cable should be bundled or it should be MSX2, but as it is, at least for me, its not worth it :/
Take a look to the price of other FPGA boards. Are you sure that it is expensive? And it comes with a supercharged MSX1 configuration.

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout's picture

30-07-2005, 22:16

djh: The picture shown is a prototype and is in no way misleading. MSX2 compatibility is not offered out-of-the-box, but will be offered in the future, as announced on the Bazix website several times

Slotman: 91% of the FPGA is taken in an MSX2 setup, which -by the way- does offer PSG, SCC and MSX-MUSIC in stereo. As stated on the Bazix website, the Z80 core, MSX-MUSIC core and V9938 can be optimized, saving many gates in the process.

As for the casing: it will be announced in the near future Wink

By zett

Hero (573)

zett's picture

30-07-2005, 22:29

I think it's bad management.
they had to wait till the msx2 version was finished.
and looked like a computer, so like bult in keyboard.

By Ivan

Ascended (9115)

Ivan's picture

30-07-2005, 22:36

I prefer it without mechanical parts. And you can choose the keyboard that fits your needs.

By flyguille

Prophet (3029)

flyguille's picture

30-07-2005, 22:59

well... here will go my own preorder... but, before... when will I be asked to send the money? (date)

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9769)

wolf_'s picture

30-07-2005, 23:01

Indeed, no keyboard please. I'd rather buy a switchbox so I can use my PC's keyboard, mouse and TFT .. so much more choice..

By timofonic

Rookie (31)

timofonic's picture

31-07-2005, 08:17

long link (click on something on the up and go back, referer url stuff).

I prefer a lot more the eseMSX2 design, it's a lot smarter and thinking for UPGRADE! 1cMSX is unusable for me, MSX1 can be getted TOO CHEAP and even free (some friend that not uses it or even people that will go to the trash sadly).

By sunrise

Paragon (1091)

sunrise's picture

31-07-2005, 08:31

Still waiting for an answer to know for sure if msx-audio/moonsound work(+12v/-12v issue)
As far as the info now is I can safely say that products of Sunrise will work with it, except for the Moonsound thus.

By timofonic

Rookie (31)

timofonic's picture

31-07-2005, 08:48

Too few information, people buying before knowing the machine? This is nosense, what occour? This revival is crap...

I have a moonsound...

By Jorito

Mr. Ambassadors (1761)

Jorito's picture

31-07-2005, 11:26

Nice you decided not to buy it, timofonic. It's not so nice that you keep on nagging about it over and over again (after something like 10 similar posts in the same evening I think you made your point Smile)

By tfh

Paragon (1814)

tfh's picture

31-07-2005, 11:43

OMG... Is all that the MSX comunity can do these days? complain, complain and do some more complaining?
I have some doubts about the whole Bazix stuff too, but this FAQ they have made about the OCM is quite clear. But some people only read half of the news posting on MRC and start complaining, without actually reading the FAQ, or even carefully reading the news-posting...

Pfffff....

If you all know it so well, why not create your own OCM? Maybe then you will find out how hard it is to make something like that, market it and selling it.

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9769)

wolf_'s picture

31-07-2005, 12:48

yeah.., reading properly is rare these days..

I suggest: wait until aug20 when we prolly know the final specs, and order it at 23:59, or don't order it at all.. but let's at least give the machine 1 chance..

(not propagandizing here orso, when the Moonsound doesn't work I won't be buying it)

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9769)

wolf_'s picture

31-07-2005, 12:50

Sunrise: I'm a complete hardware-n00b, but can the Moonsound be adjusted in any way when it turns out it doesn't work in the 1cm?
(a little soldering here and there or whatever Smile )

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout's picture

31-07-2005, 12:51

Timofonic: The ESE MSX2 is the predecessor of the One Chip MSX, as you can read in the comments over here, the specs of the FPGA chips use are a lot more similar than they look at first sight.

About MSX-AUDIO and Moonsound: At the prototype I have at home they unfortunately do not function properly. CompactFlash, GFX9000 and Obsonet do. This is indeed caused by the lack of +12/-12V on the prototype. I'm not completely sure whether or not the final OCM will lack this as well. We would need an external 12V source or, of course, implement them in VHDL.... I'll find out whether or not the device will have 12V in its production version first.

flyguille: the e-mail address of Bazix is all over the Bazix site, you might as well have sent a mail. Provided 5,000 One Chip MSX computers are being pre-orderd, expect to make your payment shortly after the 20th of August.

By Grauw

Ascended (8457)

Grauw's picture

31-07-2005, 15:26

Lack of 12V power would be a real shame. It seems relatively trivial enough to do, so I really hope this will be catered for. Users can ofcourse always mod their own lead to the 12V pins, but a even just having a connector for an external power supply would be preferable. Best would of course be to have the 12V out of the box.

With regard to the amount of logic gates used, I see that MSX-Music takes 28% of the gates, in other words, if I put my FM-Stereo-Pak in the cartridge slot I can have 30% more free FPGA space Smile. Enough for some cool extensions, if you ask me! ^_^.

Anyways, I am really exited about all this. Keep it up, and I hope the 5.000 will be reached (and if not, that they will still manufacture it, perhaps by extending the order period or a slight price increase).

~Grauw

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9769)

wolf_'s picture

31-07-2005, 16:11

Grauw: inserting an FM-Pac etc. *does* mean however that you rely on ppl *having* those extensions. If people don't have that and they wish for FM-Pac music then there's probably no FPGA power left for the custom things you had in mind for your game/demo (if you hit 100% with those Smile )

One of the nice things about this 1cm is that a game (that uploads its own VHDL) can really be self-contained, without requiring anything else, maximum compatibility worldwide!

By Latok

msx guru (3686)

Latok's picture

31-07-2005, 16:34

Uhm......If the MSX scene wants the OCM, if MSXA wants the OCM, if Bazix wants the OCM, if ASCII wants the OCM.....Why on earth is there an August 20th deadline then. This really bugs me like hell, actually Smile

Come on, just extend the deadline a bit, get some more final configurations (they now know what the scene wants) and give the marketing another boost with these final configurations.

Or is the world gonna end on August 20th? If that's the case, I haven't said a thing Tongue

By Haohmaru

Paladin (772)

Haohmaru's picture

31-07-2005, 16:51

inserting an FM-Pac etc. *does* mean however that you rely on ppl *having* those extensions. If people don't have that and they wish for FM-Pac music then there's probably no FPGA power left for the custom things you had in mind for your game/demo

Wolf_: Using the 1cm to play MSX games *does* mean however that you rely on ppl *having* MSX games that run on the 1cm.

Wink(tm)

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9769)

wolf_'s picture

31-07-2005, 16:53

point being?

By Haohmaru

Paladin (772)

Haohmaru's picture

31-07-2005, 16:57

Oh sorry, I forgot your message to Grauw had no point at all.

Wink(tm)

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9769)

wolf_'s picture

31-07-2005, 17:03

explain please..

By Haohmaru

Paladin (772)

Haohmaru's picture

31-07-2005, 17:12

Your message to Grauw:
inserting an FM-Pac etc. *does* mean however that you rely on ppl *having* those extensions. If people don't have that and they wish for FM-Pac music then there's probably no FPGA power left for the custom things you had in mind for your game/demo

Mine:
Wolf_: Using the 1cm to play MSX games *does* mean however that you rely on ppl *having* MSX games that run on the 1cm.

Meaning:
'Out of the box' the 1cm will only run cartridge-based MSX games. Not everyone has (all) their games on cartridge (there are still plenty of tape-freaks out there). So MSX freaks who don't own cartridges will have to go on the hunt for cartridges or do { whatever } to get their (tape/disk) games running on the 1cm.

Having the MSX-MUSIC already embedded is a great idea for those who don't own/care about it, but it also means there will be less room for future FPGA upgrades people are drooling about.

(erm, maybe it's just me, but I feel I've gone into parrot-mode here)

Wink(tm)

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9769)

wolf_'s picture

31-07-2005, 17:21

Meaning:
'Out of the box' the 1cm will only run cartridge-based MSX games. Not everyone has (all) their games on cartridge (there are still plenty of tape-freaks out there). So MSX freaks who don't own cartridges will have to go on the hunt for cartridges or do { whatever } to get their (tape/disk) games running on the 1cm.

That's software, I was talking hardware.

Having the MSX-MUSIC already embedded is a great idea for those who don't own/care about it, but it also means there will be less room for future FPGA upgrades people are drooling about.

*that* was my point. Grauw was talking about freeing-up the FM-Pac code from the FPGA as he could plug his own FM-stereo-Pac, in order to gain some 30% power. If he was to make a game without FM-Pac code but with new stuff from himself which alltogether consumes 100% FPGA, but WITH support for FM-Pac music, then users without FM-Pac cartridge have no (FM-Pac)music.
So, the point was: eiter a normal MSX2 with FM-Pac or a boosted MSX2 without FM-Pac, but with a risc of not everyone being able to play it with music. That's the only thing I wanted to point-out.

and please cut the " Wink (tm) " thing ... ^_^

By Haohmaru

Paladin (772)

Haohmaru's picture

31-07-2005, 17:25

Okay, we'll blame these last few posts on 'not quite understanding each other' then.

Wink(tm)

(yeah, just like you are going to stop with your )O_o)-thing)

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9769)

wolf_'s picture

31-07-2005, 17:30

(^_^( "But we are no emotion-smileys!"
)o_O) "Most definitely not!"
(^_^( "So we aren't here to lighten-up a piece of text"
)o_O) "We 're just here to annoy everyone"

(^_^( "...."

)o_O) "Muhuahahaha"

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5513)

mars2000you's picture

31-07-2005, 18:12

[(ooO)(o_O)(O_o)]/[(_^^)(__^)(^^_)]+[(OOo)(_OO)(__o)]/[(ooo)(OOO)(___)] Tongue

By djh1697

Paragon (1409)

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31-07-2005, 19:24

I wonder if 1cm will with my MegaRAM, now that would be cool Wink

By Grauw

Ascended (8457)

Grauw's picture

31-07-2005, 19:47

But why would we all want the same machine? Because the 1 chip MSX can be modified (and I assume is modular), everybody can create their own configuration that suits their needs... If inserting an external FM-Pac means that I can have support for a super-shizzle-dizzle other extension, I’m all for it Smile.

Of course, optimizing the code for space also sounds like a plan ^_^.

~Grauw

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9769)

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31-07-2005, 20:02

Ofcourse, but wouldn't you want to create something and spread it so others can see/play it?

By Edwin

Paragon (1182)

Edwin's picture

31-07-2005, 20:31

I'm quite happy to read the new information. Some of it is extremely positive to read. But I have some worries though.

The FAQ says that sources for msx1 compatibility will be included. That means that SCC/MSX-MUSIC/SD support and whatever is not strictly part of the msx1 standard will not be released?

Why does the MSX2 upgrade include a cable if the FPGA code can be upgraded from MSX-DOS? Btw, is there a price estimate for the upgrade and what about VHDL sources?

I find the lack of PAL support a bit worrying. It seems to me experienced VHDL coders could have added this in a really short time and it's a rather trivial feature for the European market. I find this rather odd and makes me wonder about ASCII's true devotion to the non-Japanese market. (And no, I don't have any NTSC capable monitors).

What signal is produced by the vga connector? I mean resolution/frequency etc. Just wondering about compatibility.

By pitpan

Prophet (3131)

pitpan's picture

31-07-2005, 21:06

If you code a game for the 1CM that uploads its own FPGA core it can be really impressive. The question is therefore different: would that be an MSX game? Could it be run in the "other" MSX computers?
Or the 1CM will finally destroy the MSX compatibility?

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9769)

wolf_'s picture

31-07-2005, 21:09

Which is something I wondered about from the very first moment.. "when is something not an MSX anymore?"
If you upload a complete C64 to the FPGA ... then what? The device is still calle one-chip-MSX then Smile

By djh1697

Paragon (1409)

djh1697's picture

31-07-2005, 21:13

"Or the 1CM will finally destroy the MSX compatibility?"

It did with the lack of a cassette port!

By Latok

msx guru (3686)

Latok's picture

31-07-2005, 21:14

Uploading MSX-MUSIC, DOS2, different VDP's. It all sounds like a regular emulator. The difference is it all works way more accurate, right? It's much better than emulation? You can't tell the difference between a real MSX computer and the FPGA thing?

And pitpan, yes....of course.....But isn't that the whole issue? Does it HAVE to be MSX compatible? Can't we just use our real MSX machines for real MSX software? In essence, this isn't a One-Chip-MSX-Computer but a One-Chip-Computer. I don't mind at all, though. I like the concept.

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout's picture

31-07-2005, 21:59

I consider the worries on FPGA affecting the MSX standard to be 'fear of the unknown', more or less. Especially since you can always turn the One Chip MSX back into a real (original) MSX. Ideally, like Wolf stated, software adapting the FPGA will have a feature to turn the FPGA chip back in its original state. Does inserting an SCC, CompactFlash or GFX9000 interface in your MSX computer make it 'less MSX'? Smile With the One Chip MSX, the OCM owners gain control on what the device is going to be capable of in the future, and yes these capabilities lie within adding features to the MSX, improving features to the MSX, implementing a completely different home computer or console, or even a new computer from scratch. What makes software using such VHDL alteration 'One Chip MSX'-software is the sole reason that it can be run on a One Chip MSX. We already had software exchangeability, now we have hardware exchangeability (of course, within certain limitations) as well. I think the upsides of gaining full control over the hardware far outweigh the potential downsides.

As for PAL support: the 21.48MHz the One Chip MSX FPGA core is running on makes it relatively easy to generate a 3.58MHz NTSC signal, while a 4.43MHz PAL color burst is quite a lot more difficult. I'm not sure whether it's hard or impossible, but it's a feature that won't be present out-of-the-box.

The VGA output has a resolution of 640x480, 31kHz at a refresh rate of 60Hz. As for the VHDL included: it will be the full VHDL code, including the MegaSCSI/SD support et al.

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout's picture

31-07-2005, 22:01

Latok: the difference between emulation and FPGA is, indeed, that FPGA can be made a lot more accurate easily, as you are re-creating the original hadware circuitry at hardware level. There's no OS, hardware or config you have to worry about, the OCM will do exactly what you program it to do. I must say it's quite nice to have a low-temperatore, no-cooler/fans needed, silent instant-boot device again, next to my turboR Wink

By Ivan

Ascended (9115)

Ivan's picture

31-07-2005, 22:12

As for PAL support: the 21.48MHz the One Chip MSX FPGA core is running on makes it relatively easy to generate a 3.58MHz NTSC signal, while a 4.43MHz PAL color burst is quite a lot more difficult. I'm not sure whether it's hard or impossible, but it's a feature that won't be present out-of-the-box.
All modern TVs support NTSC. My old 14" Sony TV supports NTSC and it is from 1988.

By Latok

msx guru (3686)

Latok's picture

31-07-2005, 22:13

I haven't seen a smooth scroll on any MSX emulator yet, I don't like emulators at all. I believe it all has to do with the timing or something, right? Someone tried to explain it to me once. 50hz/60hz, pc monitors etc. etc. Dunno. Anyway, it's reassuring I won't have these irritations with the OCM. Right, snout?! MSX demos on the OCM look, feel and sound EXACTLY the same as they do on real MSX machines?!?!?!

By flyguille

Prophet (3029)

flyguille's picture

31-07-2005, 23:52

snout:

By flyguille

Prophet (3029)

flyguille's picture

31-07-2005, 23:54

snout: and "short" can be ... after the 20th aug... within a month? Smile

in other way.... the 1CM has RTC support?

By Edwin

Paragon (1182)

Edwin's picture

01-08-2005, 00:26

while a 4.43MHz PAL color burst is quite a lot more difficult.

But which will have to be tackled for MSX2 support anyway to be able to get 50Hz. Either in PAL or NTSC.

The VGA output has a resolution of 640x480, 31kHz at a refresh rate of 60Hz.

This is not a particulary nice signal for fitting MSX displays. It basically has the same problems as the emulators do, different aspect ratio and large borders or scaling issues. And then I hope that the VGA signal is a conversion of the NTSC signal, otherwise there's a world of potetial trouble. Altogether this seems much more difficult than a simple PAL support.

As for the VHDL included: it will be the full VHDL code, including the MegaSCSI/SD support et al.

Check. This is rather important as you don't want to take a huge step back if you want to make some modifications.

By Grauw

Ascended (8457)

Grauw's picture

01-08-2005, 00:53

All modern TVs support NTSC. My old 14" Sony TV supports NTSC and it is from 1988.
Through an RGB SCART connection, yes. Does it support NTSC through a composite video connection though? My widescreen TV does, but none of my monitors do, afaik. And given that the 1CM doesn’t have an RGB output (although yes I know it could be achieved through the VGA connector, a custom cable and a VHDL modification)

For RGB, the only real difference between NTSC and PAL is the resolution. For composite, there are a lot of additional differences like signal frequencies, the format of the colour signal, and who knows what else...

Ofcourse, but wouldn't you want to create something and spread it so others can see/play it?
I’m really really not enthousiastic about the concept of software tampering with my system hardware. It may sound nice in theory, but in practice I see various complications: 1. it might very well overwrite specific modifications such as the aforementioned RGB support that I have made, 2. I doubt that the devices are implemented modularly and can be added/removed individually, 3. I also don’t think the hardware can be changed on the fly. And I can probably think of many more reasons why it won’t work or why such things are not desirable.

So yes, I really like the concept of being able to change my system’s hardware by means of VHDL code. But no, I really really do not want software to touch it. I feel as uncomfortable about that as about software (e.g. a game) overwriting my Sunrise IDE BIOS with custom versions that they might desire.

~Grauw

By tfh

Paragon (1814)

tfh's picture

01-08-2005, 07:37

You guys should have mentioned the lack of a cassette port and a lack of sector-based floppies in the FAQ.

By msd

Paragon (1372)

msd's picture

01-08-2005, 08:43

On no again remarks about the cas port. If you want to use tapes and never progress. Just stick to your msx1 and forget about the 1CM

By Latok

msx guru (3686)

Latok's picture

01-08-2005, 08:49

naaaa, tfh is just a cynical bastard Tongue

By Sousuke

Master (177)

Sousuke's picture

01-08-2005, 18:25

It's IMO a good progress to see, that MSX is actually rebuilt (I don't want to use the verb "revived" [yet?]...).
I'm very glad to see that many uncertainities has been answered in Bazix's FAQ. It's really worth going through it - and read it carefully!

You guys should have mentioned the lack of a cassette port and a lack of sector-based floppies in the FAQ.It's IMHO really sad that there's no cas-port. Ok, one might ask, what software you want to run on it? Or as someone else stated, that we need to progress...
[nitpicking]But what if I want to backup my old cassettes? Wink Besides, it's specified in the standard.[/nitpicking] Wink
Question @ Bazix: Are there other (multipurpose) ports for the user available? Really crazy freaks like me might want to "misuse" it and reimplement a casport Tongue

Other downside of OCM is apparently the lack of +/-12V power supply - [nitpicking again Wink]MSX Standard? Tongue[/nitpicking] - since MoonSound is such a nice hardware Smile
But it would be possible to use those hardware if it's connected through a slot expander, when it's using own powersupply, rite?

By sunrise

Paragon (1091)

sunrise's picture

01-08-2005, 21:19

A slotexpander with external powersupply is a solution such as the sunrise or the expander of hans oranje, maybe padial's expansors also. But this is thus also the most expensive solution.
Plus the fact that it is unhandy to have two powersupplies
An extended print with some logic as used in our prototype for the gamereader is about 25 euro, but this had to be placed on an extra pcb together with a slotprint like a slotextender
The best solution is that MSX Association will do it straight away. Saves PCb costs.

By Grauw

Ascended (8457)

Grauw's picture

01-08-2005, 23:38

Question @ Bazix: Are there other (multipurpose) ports for the user available? Really crazy freaks like me might want to "misuse" it and reimplement a casport

Yes, the 1CM overview page says:
"FPGA I/O pin (40 pins and 10 pins)"

You can also see those pins on the PCB. As far as I understand, those pins are general purpose and still unused, and you can create VHDL code which assigns functionality to them... So a cassette port mod shouldn’t be terribly difficult then.

~Grauw

By poke-1,170

Paragon (1756)

poke-1,170's picture

02-08-2005, 02:14

I suppose you can find those old cassette games online anyhow that y'all have on tape... I know it exists online anyway...
How else could I play games using blue msx?
Apart from that, tapes suck,most won't work anymore anyway and have you ever noticed how annoyingly long they load?

By Tanni

Hero (556)

Tanni's picture

02-08-2005, 10:33

I suppose you can find those old cassette games online anyhow that y'all have on tape... I know it exists online anyway...
You also could have used cassettes to record your private programms, texts, etc.
Apart from that, tapes suck,most won't work anymore anyway and have you ever noticed how annoyingly long they load?
Yes, your're right, but to save the contents of these old tapes, we need a cassette port on the OCM! Also for nostalgy, too! And if it belongs to the standard, and if we want to be compatible, there must be a cassette port. To solve this problem, I think, for further MSX systems, there should be adaptors providing the cassette port facility.

By Tanni

Hero (556)

Tanni's picture

02-08-2005, 10:50

All modern TVs support NTSC. My old 14" Sony TV supports NTSC and it is from 1988.
I don't have a modern TV! I don't watching TV anymore! Too much advertising, too many nasty things!
Just for MSX, I want to use my old TV, which looks very nice, compared to the new TV sets. So I hope
there'll be PAL support anyway.

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9769)

wolf_'s picture

02-08-2005, 11:09

Yes, your're right, but to save the contents of these old tapes, we need a cassette port on the OCM!

No we don't. We have 'normal' MSX'es as well, don't we? Use your current MSX to backup those tapes then.. or is everyone throwing away their current MSX once they have a 1cm? Smile

By Tanni

Hero (556)

Tanni's picture

02-08-2005, 12:54

No we don't. We have 'normal' MSX'es as well, don't we? Use your current MSX to backup those tapes then.. or is everyone throwing away their current MSX once they have a 1cm?
Yes, we have ''normal'' MSX computers as well, but they are defective or will become defective sometime. Even so the tape recorders. All my MSX1 computers and my tape recorder are more or less defect. I don't have the equipment, the skills and the time to repair them and it would take some effort, time and money to send them to e.g. the Netherlands to get them repaired. So, for the long term, the best solution for all of us and for the integrity of the standard would be to have PAL and CAS port on OCM as well.

By karloch

Prophet (2066)

karloch's picture

02-08-2005, 16:45

I think that tapes will become defective much sooner than your MSX1 or tape recoder. You can play tape games on the 1CM through the LOADCAS utility from Martos.

By Tanni

Hero (556)

Tanni's picture

02-08-2005, 17:18

I think that tapes will become defective much sooner than your MSX1 or tape recoder. You can play tape games on the 1CM through the LOADCAS utility from Martos.
Yes, maybe! Is it possible to reconstruct tape contents with that utility?

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9769)

wolf_'s picture

02-08-2005, 17:19

..if it is, would you then be less picky about not having a cas port on the 1cm? Smile

By Tanni

Hero (556)

Tanni's picture

02-08-2005, 18:44

Am I the one who is picky about not having a CAS port? There are others much more complaining about it! It's not a question of being picky, but of MSX philosophy.

By POISONIC

Paladin (1012)

POISONIC's picture

02-08-2005, 19:13

133,6 1chip msxés per per day is needed to reach the 5000 pre order
5,5 1chip msxés per hour is needed to reach the 5000 pre order
what hapens if they only have lets say a 3500 pre order on 20-8-05 is the project doomed then?

By POISONIC

Paladin (1012)

POISONIC's picture

02-08-2005, 19:47

about the cas port Wink an usb device would do the trick Smile a relais+usb chip a pcb dont ask me how but it is possible

By SolidEric

Champion (332)

SolidEric's picture

02-08-2005, 19:52

POISONIC, I think they're gonna produce anyway......Nishi buys the rest himself Smile

By flyguille

Prophet (3029)

flyguille's picture

02-08-2005, 20:01

oh!, so nishi is a rich guy?... he needa 150e x 2500 atleast 375.000 euros!

By SolidEric

Champion (332)

SolidEric's picture

02-08-2005, 21:33

you think he isn't? Smile

By Latok

msx guru (3686)

Latok's picture

02-08-2005, 21:56

That would be AWESOME. Nishi dragging himself to his pc pre ordering 2500 units of the OCM Big smile Big smile Good stuff Tongue

By POISONIC

Paladin (1012)

POISONIC's picture

02-08-2005, 22:01

in japan failing is not an option..... i

By SolidEric

Champion (332)

SolidEric's picture

02-08-2005, 22:14

I agree POISONIC, that ocm will be produced!

By POISONIC

Paladin (1012)

POISONIC's picture

02-08-2005, 22:23

if nishi has 454734 euro's Smile

By karloch

Prophet (2066)

karloch's picture

02-08-2005, 22:58

Yes, maybe! Is it possible to reconstruct tape contents with that utility?Yes, it is. Take a look here.

By Tanni

Hero (556)

Tanni's picture

03-08-2005, 10:48

That's not what I thought about! The threat you linked to deals with saving files from a CAS-image-file to a real cassette recorder, if I understood it correctly. My intention was having a tool to read corrupted tapes via CAS port and saving it to disk or whatever for further reconstruction. The need for CAS port support on OCM is mainly for accessing and reconstructing tape contents to save it to a more recent storage media.

By BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

BiFi's picture

03-08-2005, 12:24

The cassette thing has nothing to do with TFH's cynism. Most MSX1 games were released on cassette in those days and some cartridge programs (both MSX1 and MSX2) save things to cassette. The 1CM is called fully MSX1 compliant, but it does lack the cassette port. And yes, we all know about all those games were ported to disk later, but that's no reason to just not add a cassette port anymore.

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9769)

wolf_'s picture

03-08-2005, 12:40

Price might be a reason..

I doubt most ppl are willing to pay 'extra' for some stone-age connector that eventually no-one will use, and is just there to satisfy some nittpickers who prolly won't use the cas-port themself even! Besides, use your current MSX for that. It's almost as if everyone wants to play cas-games on that 1cm again as soon as the 1cm is released ..

But I bet the turbo R, which has no cas-port but wears the 'MSX' logo, is a blasphemious machine as well then..

It's almost as if some ppl don't want the 1cm (in it's current state) to be a succes, and look for minor every detail to doom it..

By Tanni

Hero (556)

Tanni's picture

03-08-2005, 12:53

... And yes, we all know about all those games were ported to disk later, but that's no reason to just not add a cassette port anymore.
You could have used the tape to save your own stuff like selfwritten programms, both in MC or BASIC, or private texts or so! That's also worth to be saved on recent media, I think!

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9769)

wolf_'s picture

03-08-2005, 14:32

grauw wrote:
So yes, I really like the concept of being able to change my system’s hardware by means of VHDL code. But no, I really really do not want software to touch it. I feel as uncomfortable about that as about software (e.g. a game) overwriting my Sunrise IDE BIOS with custom versions that they might desire.

What about adjusting the 16 msx1 colors? As a developer who wants his own colors, you need to store that bit o' VHDL somewhere, inject your own colors and run. Restore that VHDL upon quit..

Think Nemesis III (those suns).. and yes, that's MSX2, but it's just an example, with adjusting RGB values yourself this works on MSX1..

By boukichi

Resident (33)

boukichi's picture

03-08-2005, 15:13

there is a new news.

MSXA has decided to release "MSX2 version up kit" in the same day which OCM release day.
the cost of this kit is 3000yen(tax out).

By Thom

Hero (583)

Thom's picture

03-08-2005, 15:24

MSXA has decided to release "MSX2 version up kit" in the same day which OCM release day.
the cost of this kit is 3000yen(tax out).
What's your source?

3000 yen = about $27. That's not too much.

About the tape, I don't think it's okay to stick 100% to the MSX standard for the sake of it. Tapes are obsolete anyway, it won't hurt to get rid of it.

By iamweasel2

Hero (524)

iamweasel2's picture

03-08-2005, 16:25

What comes with this MSX2 up kit?
Just the V9938 or there are new hardware available or even modifications that improve the hardware already available?

By boukichi

Resident (33)

boukichi's picture

03-08-2005, 16:48

source of the news is
https://www.ascii.co.jp/1chip/

yup,this is japanese though.
I guess it will post this news on MRC soon.

By Tanni

Hero (556)

Tanni's picture

03-08-2005, 18:31

Price might be a reason..

Because it's a fan product, the price might not be such a reason.

By Leo

Paragon (1236)

Leo's picture

03-08-2005, 18:49

I dont understand why there is a charge for MSX2 kit , I thought iwas not ready so they could only provide MSX1 code file. If they have MSX2 working why dont they offer it to hte 5000 first to roder it could be a motivation to reach the number ... They prefer to sell less OCM and then charge some of the customers why additional 27$ ... strange commercial habit ...

By SLotman

Paragon (1215)

SLotman's picture

03-08-2005, 19:48

I keep saying, if the OCM was for that price, being MSX2 and with cable, I for once wouldnt complain about the price, and I believe the sales would be much higher.

But now, $27 for a CD-ROM with MSX2 VHDL code that you can get at ESE site? I wonder what ASCII thinks about the IQ of MSX community...

By flyguille

Prophet (3029)

flyguille's picture

03-08-2005, 20:13

paying again for the CD upgrade SUCKS!

PIGS!

By Grauw

Ascended (8457)

Grauw's picture

03-08-2005, 22:51

I’m sure I’ll manage to free another €22 ^_^.

I’m glad that progress went so fast that they will have the upgrade available immediately! Let’s hope that further upgrades however (VHDL space optimisation / v9958?) will be free...

~Grauw

By Thom

Hero (583)

Thom's picture

04-08-2005, 08:50

paying again for the CD upgrade SUCKS!

PIGS!
Inappropriate behaviour, dude.

By SolidEric

Champion (332)

SolidEric's picture

04-08-2005, 13:55

I agree Thom, I know it's said before, but if you only complain then don't buy it!!!! And what flyguille said is not done!!

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout's picture

04-08-2005, 14:22

About the tape support: As the RCA connectors can, by implementing an AD converter in VHDL, be used as audio inputs I think it's only a matter of time before someone releases an update that uses one of the RCA connectors as mono audio output and the other RCA connector as an audio (cassette) input.

About the MSX2 support: Instead of assuming the worst, as usual, how about waiting for Bazix to make an announcement on the MSX2 update, look at the price and contents of that package and then draw your conclusions? How about looking at it from the bright side for a change, as now even the most sceptic person can not deny that the One Chip MSX is -at least- capable of bringing MSX2 compatibility out of the box. It's just a thought, of course, but then again: some people really have trouble showing even the slightest bit of patience and optimism and I suspect quite a few of those to have based their opinions on feelings that have nothing to do with the One Chip MSX itself and/or assumptions that have not even remotely been based on facts.

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout's picture

04-08-2005, 14:24

By the way: (just in case): I'm glad to see that -at the end of the day- there are only a few people that fit the lack of patience&optimisim I described above ^_^

By flyguille

Prophet (3029)

flyguille's picture

04-08-2005, 15:16

no, snout, it is tooooo unfair.... the upgrades (just the info must be free) and in a public FTP if it can........ now if then... they release an optimization to save atleast 30% LEs with the same features.... I will pay that.... surely everybody will no complain about that.... but, the 1CM already is being selled as a MSX capable of MSX2.... and the only reason not to release it with MSX2 is because it is not finished or has bugs... now all we knows the trust ... it is because they want to do extra money... nothing more!

that is a looot unfair

By flyguille

Prophet (3029)

flyguille's picture

04-08-2005, 15:18

and WHAT WILL DO BAZIX? ,,, buy ONE CD... and copy it for all its customers?.... jajajajajajaj

Sad

I am so upset!!!!!

By flyguille

Prophet (3029)

flyguille's picture

04-08-2005, 15:20



paying again for the CD upgrade SUCKS!

PIGS!

Inappropriate behaviour, dude.

and what you waits?... the "not free upgrade news" is shocking.... everybody surelly thought that... but I expressed that!

By flyguille

Prophet (3029)

flyguille's picture

04-08-2005, 15:26

as i said before

"if I was delaying my preorder just because i needs to have the money first.... now i see more FAR to buy the 1CM..."

i was decided to buy... but just delaying for having enought spare money... now i needs to re-thinks again about this investment.

By Thom

Hero (583)

Thom's picture

04-08-2005, 15:46

and what you waits?... the "not free upgrade news" is shocking.... everybody surelly thought that... but I expressed that!
Unfortunately, you chose to express that in a plain aggressive way. Like you should know as a mature father, this "technique" to voice your opinion is extremely weak. Shouting, forcing, calling names ("PIGS") won't help you any further at all. Not only here, but everywhere in the civilization. Generally, aggresive discussion won't be taken seriously. I'm not sure if that's what you want but my suggestion would be to comfort yourself to a more constructive, well-considered style. Then people won't feel as much resistance and may be actually willing to listen. It's easy, really.

By flyguille

Prophet (3029)

flyguille's picture

04-08-2005, 17:20

Sure Thom, I normaly not behave in that way... you knows

But that was a special ANGRY moment!

and worth to speak with special ANGRY words!