One Chip MSX - Pre-ordering started

by Sonic_aka_T on 20-05-2005, 00:51
Topic: MSX Revival
Languages:

Just now, ASCII have opened up a website where the upcoming One Chip MSX can be pre-ordered. For 19.800 yen (about €145 / $185) this fully MSX1, partly MSX2 compatible device can be obtained. Thanks to FPGA technology, the functionality of the device can be changed without performing any hardware modifications. An upgrade to make the device completely MSX2 compatible will be released in the future.

The Dutch company Bazix has already informed MRC they are very likely to distribute an English version of the One Chip MSX on the non-Japanese market as well, of which distribution will start at the same time or shortly after the distribution of the Japanese version has started. From what we understood, Bazix hopes to do a formal announcement in the near future with more specific information.

Relevant link: One Chip MSX - Preorder page

Comments (129)

By Sonic_aka_T

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20-05-2005, 00:54

pretty cool eh? Wink

By Sd-Snatcher

Hero (582)

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20-05-2005, 00:56

Preordering?? Where?

By Sonic_aka_T

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20-05-2005, 00:59

My guess would be the One Chip MSX pre-ordering page Tongue

By J-War

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20-05-2005, 01:14

---------- R N F F !!!!!!!!! ----------

By Sonic_aka_T

Enlighted (4130)

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20-05-2005, 01:30

o_O

By elements

Master (180)

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20-05-2005, 02:02

this fully MSX1, partly MSX2 compatible device can be obtained. Thanks to FPGA technology, the functionality of the device can be changed without performing any hardware modifications. An upgrade to make the device completely MSX2 compatible will be released in the future.

-also msx2 plus in the future???
-no msx case?

By Algorythms

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20-05-2005, 02:03

Cool! But should the non-jap people wait for Bazix with the preordering?

By Sonic_aka_T

Enlighted (4130)

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20-05-2005, 02:10

I think I will... I'm guessing it would prolly be a bit cheaper than having one shipped over yourself... Would also be nice to have something MSX with a manual I can read for a change! Tongue

By [D-Tail]

Ascended (8232)

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20-05-2005, 06:14

w00t0r! Big smile

This is so great news! Smile I can't wait to have my own...

By spl

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20-05-2005, 09:06

I will wait the European Bazix release... and hope there will be MSX 2 upgrade!

By selios2000

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20-05-2005, 09:37

For me, a MSX is not a real MSX with a PC keyboard :s :s :s

By KNM

Master (172)

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20-05-2005, 10:40

COOL!!!...But I hate wait Tongue I WANT ONEEEE !!!!!!!!

By snout

Ascended (15187)

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20-05-2005, 10:45

guyz... do you realize how historical this moment is?

-> As we speak, new MSX computers are being sold by a large Japanese company. <-

Yaiks, who would have thought... Wink

Elements: If you can squeeze V9958 emulation in the FPGA core: most certainly! And about the casing, I think I have some nice news for you later tonight in the form of a photoshoot. ^_^

KNM: I know waiting is a bore, but we had to wait for a new MSX computer for more than 10 years. A few extra days wouldn't hurt you, right? Smile

By selios2000

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20-05-2005, 10:48

yes, I realize but... it it not so HISTORICAL because:

-I see a "computer" without case
-I don't see a MSX on it, only a ugly piece of computer hardware.

Conclusion: It is far away of what I imagine about the design of the MSX3. That thing has not personality, don't have cursors..., not yet case... This is not the MSX I awaited for so long...

By spl

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20-05-2005, 11:21

Hope the case will be great Big smile Selios, the fact is that it's a MSX, a ultra-compact MSX with modern look. Yes, we like the "classic" MSX look, but times have changed.... Big smile

By selios2000

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20-05-2005, 11:23

NOOO don't want the times change!! Arenit we obsolete? hahahaha :'( I want a new MSX with keyboard built in!!!

By snout

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20-05-2005, 11:29

FYI: quite a few MSX computers with external keyboards have already been released in the past. Having an external keyboard doesn't make the One Chip MSX more or less MSX.

By viejo_archivero

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20-05-2005, 11:29

Waiting for Bazix to get the European version. Smile

By viejo_archivero

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20-05-2005, 11:31

An important question: will the 1chip MSX have a tape I/O port???. If not, I'll consider buying it or not... :_(

By spl

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20-05-2005, 11:42

Viejo Archivero, if it follows the MSX standard, hope it will have I/O ports...

By Grauw

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20-05-2005, 12:04

I don’t really care about a tape port Smile (although the cassette relais is cool).

I guess I’ll wait for the European version as well. This thing is gonna ROCK! Smile

~Grauw

By snout

Ascended (15187)

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20-05-2005, 12:05

The current One Chip MSX board doesn't have a tape I/O port. However, that doesn't mean the final version won't have. And even if it hasn't, FPGA would allow tape support through the USB ports or perhaps even through one of the two cinch-connectors usually used for audio output. (I'm not too familiar with the design of the One Chip MSX to be able to give a solid answer to that). To me, personally, tape support is something the One Chip MSX could do without. We're all skilled enough to play Metal Gear 1 in one go these days, aren't we? ^_^

By Grauw

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20-05-2005, 12:06

(Especially looking forward to it because in my room here in Utrecht I don’t have an MSX, and I wouldn’t mind having a compact one which I can connect to my PC monitor - the MSX monitor is a little too big, I don’t have room for that here ^_^) (I already got a nice compact keyboard for it).

~Grauw

By Grauw

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20-05-2005, 12:08

I wonder if this means by the way that they’ll be rereleasing games (or even game compilations) on cartridges?? That’d be cool. If not, what will the distribution medium be? There’s obviously no diskdrive...

~Grauw

By Meits

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20-05-2005, 12:13

As soon as there's something like a full MSX2 or higher, I might get interested... For now I just pass, so there's more for you guys Tongue

By selios2000

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20-05-2005, 12:15

Posssible questions to ASCII:

Are they going to release a keyboard with cursors (hahahaha sorry)
Are any company interested nowadays to make new games to the "new" MSX?

By andete

Expert (96)

andete's picture

20-05-2005, 13:10

For the ignorant (like me) can someone post a quick summary of what can (and cannot) be done with this device?
E.g. Can one run own assembled ROM files on it or can software only be on cardridges?

By Sonic_aka_T

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20-05-2005, 13:25

For the ignorant (like me) can someone post a quick summary of what can (and cannot) be done with this device?
E.g. Can one run own assembled ROM files on it or can software only be on cardridges?
It'll basically be an MSX computer, so you should be able to do pretty much anything with it, except for loading cassettes I guess...

By MicroTech

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20-05-2005, 14:13

> guyz... do you realize how historical this moment is?

You are right snout... it's a dream coming true... SmileSmileSmileSmile

Would it be possible to connect 2 1cm through expansion slots and to "use" one of theme as an external device (running VHDL code of a V9990, OPL4, and so on)?

By spl

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20-05-2005, 14:32

So, if there is not cassette I/O ports... this new msx is out of the standard?

By viejo_archivero

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20-05-2005, 14:36

...and without the cassete port, how would I play my -32KB ROMS and ALL my original MSX tapes?. Will I need to get a MegaFlash? :_(. How can you make a save/load with the 1chip MSX?. Does it support diskette at least?...

By Sonic_aka_T

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20-05-2005, 14:43

So, if there is not cassette I/O ports... this new msx is out of the standard?The cassette port was removed from the standard with the MSX turboR. I for one won't miss it... Heck, I didn't even remember my NMS8245 had one! I'll go you one worse tho; as of this model, FDDs are outdated too! It's a good thing we've got our SD cards to store all our stuff on! Smile

By Sonic_aka_T

Enlighted (4130)

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20-05-2005, 14:46

...and without the cassete port, how would I play my -32KB ROMS and ALL my original MSX tapes?. Will I need to get a MegaFlash? :_(. How can you make a save/load with the 1chip MSX?. Does it support diskette at least?...Doesn't look like it has an FDD... Of course you've got two slots you can connect one to, and I guess it should be possible to somehow use USB FDDs as well. I'll be happy with just a CF IDE though, in addition to that SD card...

By wolf_

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20-05-2005, 15:12

Hey viejo-man .. are you really still waiting on and playing tape-games today? (it *is* 2005 you know) I mean, copy them to disk, or download them from 'the site we don't speak of' Smile

By Grauw

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20-05-2005, 15:25

I don’t have any tapes. Well, actually, I do, I have one. But it’s only to look at, it’s an infogrames game where you have to solve a mystery with the help of accessories that come with the game. Anyways, given that it is an MSX1 in the first place, it is a little weird, but I don’t have those cassette games anyway so I certainly won’t miss the cassette port.

CF-IDE is a nice replacement for diskdrive, but of course a. it is an MSX1 first (I wonder how long it will take for the MSX2 upgrade to become available), and I wonder if it can run DOS2 (although adding memory mapper logic and a clock chip is probably little effort and perhaps already there), and b. not all games run from CF-IDE. But then again, perhaps the VHDL code can be modded to create a way to emulate a diskdrive, like the R800 can.

~Grauw

By snout

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20-05-2005, 16:28

Actually Tsujikawa demonstraded quite a few MSX2 games to me, running DOS2 with the SD card functioning as a MegaSCSI drive on the -current- version of the One Chip MSX. With EP, there are little games (I believe there is exactly one) that refuse to load. I don't know whether the FPGA code needed to make the One Chip MSX run as an MSX2 with MegaSCSI is included at launch (my guess is not), but it shows the potential of the device. The future of the One Chip MSX is mainly in the hands of the MSX/FPGA community. And from what I've seen, that future is darn promising.

By SLotman

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20-05-2005, 16:54

Ok, really goes some big "reaction" hehehe

Someone asked who would be willing to develop games for this machine? I would!

I know the one chip msx is just the "first step", and of course is cool to see msx being produced and sold again, but specific for this machine those are the problems for me:

* it's just an MSX1, same memory layout - it could use more RAM, faster VRAM or something! I know it's FPGA and everyone can change it, but not everyone knows VHDL and hardware good enough to actually do it, and it's not easy to learn it, so having some nice "extras" already included would be great (for a really new msx, I think bitmaped sprites are a must for once)
* No VGA and no USB (for now just for "future expansions", so no real use for them)
*"mono" sound output (damn, just a couple of wires and you would have the output duplicated on the other channel... no real stereo, but better than mono)
* only one joyport, and msx-compatible one (so no modern mouse can be used without adapters, and even if you have an old msx-compatible mouse, you have to plug the joystick out to use it!)

I HOPE this thing comes with a custom keyboard (even if the connector is PC-compatible), because I dont want to use a MSX with "multimedia keys" or a "Windows key" Tongue

For it's price (more or less USD$185) it's just way too expensive for me... I will only buy it if for sure if there is some interest of ASCII/MSXA to produce new games for it, not just re-sell old ones. And this price is subject to change (there's a note of that on the page) due to other costs (taxes, etc) - so it can be even more expensive Sad

I think that accepting pre-orders without the final price stipulated is a baaaad way to go, Ademir tried the same with his CIEL3++ and that didnt work at all.... just hope the same doesnt happen with the one chip, having real new msxs is indeed a dream come true...

One thing that got me curious is why the one chip which is based on ESE project is so "cut down"... maybe due to costs? I recently saw some pictures of ESE's FPGA, it had 2 joy connectors, and even ran Space Manbow with a few glitches...
here's the links:
http://www.hat.hi-ho.ne.jp/tujikawa/esepld/esemsx2/pict1.html
http://www.hat.hi-ho.ne.jp/tujikawa/esepld/esemsx2/pict2.html
http://www.hat.hi-ho.ne.jp/tujikawa/esepld/esemsx2/pict3.html

About the 5000 minimum of pre-orders: does this include orders through Basix? Or are they only for japanese people?

By Imanok

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20-05-2005, 17:06

Is it possible to use SD cards with the MegaSCSI (on a real MSX)??

By Tanni

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20-05-2005, 18:25

I agree to selios2000 what he - or she? - says about casing and keyboard. But can you remove something form the standard? If Turbo R has no tape connector, it isn't standard. To my mind, Turbo R is just a special version of MSX for japanese gaming fans.

By Tanni

Hero (556)

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20-05-2005, 18:41

If you want to save ''classical'' stuff on Flash memory, you need at least a disk drive or a tape, so this
two devices are still important. If you can read tape or disk even 10 years after, that's another question.

About VHDL: If you know Pascal or Modula, its relativly easy to learn. The difficulty is to think hardware! But there are high level algorithmic descriptions of hardware possible, too. So you can
code e. g. a processor in a similar way as you would write a Pascal or Modula program.
This source code must be compiled to a netlist and than synthesized. You get a bitstream file with
the configurtion data to be loaded to the FPGA-device. So don't mind about future modifications,
VHDL is just fine, you'll see.

By msd

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20-05-2005, 19:47

What's the fuss about the tape? Why wouldn't you want to use it? Too much free time.

By spl

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20-05-2005, 19:53

MSX in one chip, according with the MSX standard MUST BE COMPATIBLE with all the MSX software from MSX 1 to the maximum MSX level it reach, and it includes carts, tapes and disks.

By msd

Paragon (1372)

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20-05-2005, 19:57

Just forget about the tape and use disk instead Wink

By adrcunha

Expert (117)

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20-05-2005, 19:58

Stupid question: how can I save files in the SD card with a machine that's not the MSX-on-a-chip? Ok, the MSX-on-a-chip can save/load files in the SD card, but I think it's quite useless if you can't read/write these files elsewhere. Is there Windows/Linux/whatever support for such media? Can I save my own programs or games into this card and run them on MSX-on-a-chip? (I know that inserting a disk interface or Sunrise IDE in the cartridge slot would solve such problem, but I wouldn't like to copy megs of data using a 720KB floppy or even lost the only and single cartridge slot with a data storage interface if the MSX-on-a-chip already has an embedded one).

By snout

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20-05-2005, 20:07

Let's see... My notebook (and of course many others) has a built-in SD card reader, SD cardreaders for USB are damn cheap and with a CF to SD adaptor you can connect the SD card to your real MSX using the CF interface. Are that enough options for you? Smile The other option involves at least one Obsonet cartridge ^_^

By spl

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20-05-2005, 20:12

SD cards are now the most common and cheapest cards Big smile

MSD:

I don't use tapes, but remember that too much msx 1 users yes. Also I have some disks (like PRO TRACKER) that I can't execute it from Hard Disk for example. Or some games.

By msd

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20-05-2005, 20:16

Yes don't these people want to use disks or harddisks? Why stick to tape..

By djh1697

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20-05-2005, 21:38

WOW! Is the the greatest number of reactions to a recent news topic?

Since eveyone else has said something, then so will i!!

It is quite true that MSX needs a cassette port to be a true MSX machine, there seems to be additions to the basic MSX1 specification such as USB, perhaps some bright young hardware designer could come up with a suitable interface? Why does MSX have USB? It is not mentioned anywhere within the technical manual? Maybe MSX association are planning some new extension(s) to the MSX BIOS?

I am thinking will we ever get a 1-chip Turbo-R machine...... a nice dream Smile

It is exciting times for MSX fans accross the globe!

By msd

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20-05-2005, 21:42

MSX doesn't need a cassette port to be compatible.. that's noncence.. I rather see them invest more in upgrading it to msx2/2+ instead of adding a cassette port which is hardly used

By elements

Master (180)

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20-05-2005, 22:12

YES INDEED!! I rather see them invest more in upgrading it to msx2/2+/TURBO-R instead of adding a cassette port which is hardly used. IF MSX WANTS TO SURVIVE WE HAVE TO LOOK IN THE FUTURE AS COMPETITOR bESIDE OTHER COMPUTERS. DAILY COMPUTERS TERMS IN THESE DAYS LIKE TCP/IP (INTERNET), USB, WIFI (802.x) AND OF COURSE CPU SPEED IS NEEDED TO SURVIVE.. THE OLD DAYS OF MSX WERE GREAT BUT WE HAVE TO LOOK IN THE FUTURE. OF COURSE ONECHIP MSX IS DOWNCOMPATIBLE BUT UPWARDS IS MORE IMPORTANT...WE HAVE STILL OR DREAMS AND I HOPE IT COMES TRUE...
YAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

By snout

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21-05-2005, 01:22

/me advises elements to read this article thoroughly ;)

By snout

Ascended (15187)

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21-05-2005, 01:45

In the last 24 hours, more 450 brand new MSX computers were sold. Would anyone have believed that 5 years ago? ^_^

By xperroni

Expert (83)

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21-05-2005, 03:39

The thing that startled me on the article snout pointed out is how it talks about the new MSX being "open source hardware". A few people might remember that a year ago, in a discussion about "the revival", I speculated that the MSX standard would be more likely to suceed by going open source. Although the MSX Association take on "open source" is not exactly what I meant by then, it's refreshing to see how in tune they are with such concepts as open standards, free extensibility and community empowerment.

The MSX revival campaign has gone a long way by now, and it's reassuring to see that, every step in the way, there has always been people to say "this is not going to work", and yet things advanced up to this point -- where real MSX computers are back into market. Sure this is not enough, in the exact way the MSXPlayer, the game reader or the MSX PC weren't either: they were never meant to be "enough", they were meant to be steps. That's how it works -- when you get several steps together, one after the other, ahead you go. More is sure to follow.

By Samor

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21-05-2005, 14:54

I'll wait for the Bazix announcement; if the price will stay close to the Jap. price I'll be very interested Smile

By flyguille

Prophet (3029)

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21-05-2005, 18:16

I will buy one, but only if:

1). the price for international ppl is close of the jap one.
2). comes with a nice casing.
3). if it comes with all the needed for flashing the FPGA chip.
4). if in the fpga chips is enought space for more circuitry. ¿why? i wonders what is the excuse why they don't do the fully functional v9938.... maybe there is a pandora's box and realy is not more space.

By Latok

msx guru (3673)

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22-05-2005, 11:26

710 sold. What do you guyz think of the ordering speed?

By andete

Expert (96)

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22-05-2005, 11:47

I will buy one if I can order it in Europe, it does MSX2, and the price is reasonable.

By spl

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22-05-2005, 14:52

Latok: I think that orders "speed" is slow... hope it will rise.

By Ivan

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22-05-2005, 16:10

3 days and 740 sold. Not bad Smile

By SolidEric

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22-05-2005, 16:53

spl, 710 sold in 3 days....that's not bad, many people first have to see something new from a friend and if they like it they order one themselves....just be patient ;-)

By Latok

msx guru (3673)

Latok's picture

22-05-2005, 18:29

761 now. Solideric, you can't see it at a friend's house, it'll only be produced when 5000 are pre ordered. Or do you mean you need a friend telling you about the device? Then I agree, of course. There have to be many ways of marketing to achieve the ultimate goal Smile

By SolidEric

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22-05-2005, 19:58

My mistake latok, ofcourse there have to be pre-ordered 5000 to be produced! But keep on posting those countings!

By flyguille

Prophet (3029)

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22-05-2005, 21:19

i wonders if we needs to sign up the pre-ordering.... or we needs to way to bazix anoucement?

By Grauw

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22-05-2005, 22:26

Yeah fly, same here... if there’s a minimum order, which ends at some time... I’d gladly help getting them to 5000! I hope Bazix will announce something soon, so I can preorder.

~Grauw

By adrcunha

Expert (117)

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23-05-2005, 04:48

Yet another stupid question about SD cards: ok, I can read them on my PC, but the way MSX-on-a-chip writes data to it, can I read/write it on my PC? Can the MSX-on-a-chip use the full 32MB of a SD card?

By Sonic_aka_T

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23-05-2005, 12:21

Yet another stupid question about SD cards: ok, I can read them on my PC, but the way MSX-on-a-chip writes data to it, can I read/write it on my PC? Can the MSX-on-a-chip use the full 32MB of a SD card?Well, assuming it's used as a drive, so to speak, I guess the answer would be yes, since even FAT12 can handle 32MB partitions. I'm kinda hoping there's some kind of FAT16 system in the making though, since for a 'future' standard FAT12 is uncomfortable to say the least...

By Latok

msx guru (3673)

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23-05-2005, 20:06

836.

By Sonic_aka_T

Enlighted (4130)

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24-05-2005, 01:23

839 (we should've done this from the start so we could use a trend to calculate wether they'll make it or not Tongue)

By Samor

Paragon (2029)

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24-05-2005, 11:34

not bad in itself, but 5000...
that might take a while.
unless it's going international, that might speed things up.

By Latok

msx guru (3673)

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24-05-2005, 12:42

860 Smile

By Sonic_aka_T

Enlighted (4130)

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24-05-2005, 13:13

862 Tongue

By Samor

Paragon (2029)

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24-05-2005, 13:49

seems to have an order speed of ~3 an hour now.
so...
we're over 5000 after 1500 hours.
so, roughly 60 days.
= 2 months to reach 5000?

Would be cool, but ordering would have to stay at a constant rate like this then.

By Sonic_aka_T

Enlighted (4130)

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24-05-2005, 14:48

866

By Sonic_aka_T

Enlighted (4130)

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24-05-2005, 16:14

877 Smile

By Sonic_aka_T

Enlighted (4130)

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24-05-2005, 16:25

Well, according to a trendline generated by Microsoft Excel, the total of oneChip MSXes sold by July 30th will be in the order of -3.900.000.000 Tongue

By Sonic_aka_T

Enlighted (4130)

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24-05-2005, 19:42

893 Smile

By flyguille

Prophet (3029)

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24-05-2005, 20:27

hehehe i imagine to nishi seeing that little number each hour

By Sonic_aka_T

Enlighted (4130)

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25-05-2005, 01:34

898 Sad

By poke-1,170

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25-05-2005, 02:03

yeah,nishi doesn't have anything better to do...
So he took a month off,and strapped himself into one of those chairs that people on deathrow are on...he's sitting in front of an entire wall with monitors watching this community's every move,a digital voice softly announcing every preordered 1 chip msx.
He's on my webcam blokes, I ain't shitting ya...
Go check it out yourself !

By Sonic_aka_T

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25-05-2005, 02:13

url? Tongue

By poke-1,170

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25-05-2005, 02:37

http://www.hideokojima&kainishisittinginatreekay-i-es-es-i-en-gee.co.jp

if the url doesn't work then disable some things in your pc...like take out the HD for instance...who needs that anyway?

By Sonic_aka_T

Enlighted (4130)

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25-05-2005, 03:49

I tried taking out my HD, but then my computer wouldn't boot anymore? What should I do?!? Do I have a virus or something!?!?! Tongue

By poke-1,170

Paragon (1756)

poke-1,170's picture

25-05-2005, 04:26

no,just insert disk 2 Wink

By Samor

Paragon (2029)

Samor's picture

25-05-2005, 07:03

or just hit space.
"Never Mind..."

By BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

BiFi's picture

25-05-2005, 08:03

Kinda strange to pay so much for something which only does MSX1 while second-hand MSX1 computers switch owners for peanuts. The most logical thing would be to increase the number of features in stead of starting from scratch. This brings up a strange déjà-vu feeling with MSX-BASIC's INPUT statement...

? Redo from start

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout's picture

25-05-2005, 10:21

Considering the One Chip MSX to be 'just an MSX1' is like judging a car without even considering you can turn the engine on and actually drive with it. ASCII/MSX Association will already take care of full MSX2 compatibility in the future, who knows what the MSX/FPGA community will add to those features. Take the MSX VDP project from Brazil , for instance. ADVRAM, higher resolution, more colors, no sprite limitations? You got it.

By BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

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25-05-2005, 11:30

first see, then believe...

By snout

Ascended (15187)

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25-05-2005, 12:41

Something tells me your reactions would have been quite different if Tujikawa had released the One Chip MSX as ESE Artists Factory instead of MSX Association. If you take a closer look at the MSX World 2005 photoshoot you can see a lot of MSX2 titles were already demonstrated on the One Chip MSX during the fair. Some timing issues still need to be resolved, but the doubts some people have about the FPGA having enough gates to be able to become fully MSX2 compatible are completely unfounded.

The MSX2 demos I saw after the fair (including Unknown Reality, which revealed there were still some timing issues indeed ;)) were run from SD cards, which means an entire MegaSCSI was implemented in FPGA as well. And so were SCC and MSX-MUSIC. The capability is there, but it's the community that has got to make it happen. As there are quite a few skilled FPGA coders in the MSX Community already, I think we can look forward to some interesting extensions. And I don't expect Tujikawa will sit back and relax either ;)

By BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

BiFi's picture

25-05-2005, 12:56

photos can be tampered with... I really gotta see such things with my own eyes...

By BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

BiFi's picture

25-05-2005, 13:33

people can do a lot with PhotoShop these days...

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout's picture

25-05-2005, 13:46

You sound like Marat Fayzullin stating Gameboy Emulation on MSX is absolutely impossible, but hey... if you want to keep negative about it all until the first One Chip MSX computers arrive in the Netherlands so that you can see with your own eyes that 'the damn thing just works', then that's your choice. I do wonder, though, what gives you reason to believe Tujikawa, ASCII and MSX Association would not be telling the truth in this one. Or what gives you reason to doubt the MRC reports/pictures on the subject. (Or any of the other reports and photoshoots on Japanese websites such as itMedia and retropc, for that matter).

With the photoshop-remark you're basically calling me a blatant liar and you're deliberately hurting my feelings. I don't think I did anything to deserve that. Are the demotivating remarks and conspiracy theories ever going to stop or are they just going to become more and more rediculous? I'd appreciate it if you'd take that one back, but then again, it's so much cooler to be negative, demotivating and to search conspiracies behind practically anything, isn't it?

By Latok

msx guru (3673)

Latok's picture

25-05-2005, 14:04

Now, usually, a reaction from Bifi comes in stating 'where's your sense of humour, snout. I was just kidding Tongue'.....Honestly, Bifi, I agree with snout, you suggesting some photoshopping has been done is kinda lame.

By Latok

msx guru (3673)

Latok's picture

25-05-2005, 14:05

920!

By Sander

Ambassador (1845)

Sander's picture

25-05-2005, 14:35

Maybe we should open a "Snout's nagging and nitpicking" fanclub? Tongue

By [D-Tail]

Ascended (8232)

[D-Tail]'s picture

25-05-2005, 14:40

Can I be the first member then? Tongue

By sunrise

Paragon (1091)

sunrise's picture

25-05-2005, 14:57

I wonder why all this. Snout you easily resist the critism of Bifi.
Simply please tell us, maybe over and over again till it is really clear what you get for your money and what are the changements according to the ESE board (the prelimary version of this new board) we show time after time.
Bifi has seen our board ,so he cannot deny that right?

I recall the problems with my board

- Moonsound /Philips modul /Toshina music modul not working (+12v/-12v issue)
GFX9000,IDE no problem at all
- PS/2 Keyboard not functioning

You stated elswhere that is the board is quite different . I would like to know what exactly and I refer not to different ramchips ,usbconnectors but purely to the content of the chip.

The price of it:
The real price is different from19800 yen is namely exclusive of VAT.
If Bazix import this board they had to localize , the extra costs ,margin, will influent the price very high is my estimation.
Any indication on this already.

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout's picture

25-05-2005, 15:18

Thanks for your reply Rob, but please do understand that Bazix is only involved in the One Chip MSX project as a distributor, not as a developer. I have seen a ps/2 keyboard in action on the One Chip MSX during my stay in Japan, and I have been told that Moonsound etc. should work as well now (though I did not see that in action myself).

As for the price of the One Chip MSX Bazix is to distribute: pre-ordering will start as soon as there's any clarity on that one. A bit of patience, please Wink

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9767)

wolf_'s picture

25-05-2005, 15:25

(^_^( "And........... *countdown* for another 100++ reply topic"

)o_O) "Can it be true? Can it be? Can the famous 2201 topic be beaten?"

(^_^( "Tune in next hour, for more gossip, conspiracy, photoshopped screenshots, voltage-problems, pre-order-numbers and 'humour'."

)o_O) "..after the commercialbreak"

-X-

|-_-| "cut! ok, we're out of the air"

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout's picture

25-05-2005, 15:37

99!

(reactions, that is)

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9767)

wolf_'s picture

25-05-2005, 15:41

|-_-| "we're in the air again"

<fade>

(^_^( "Sofar for the dipers, cheap-loans, French cheese, and other stuff that smells"

)o_O) "2nd round!"

(^_^( "more conspiracy ahead.."

)o_O) "' 'ave fun "

By flyguille

Prophet (3029)

flyguille's picture

25-05-2005, 15:46

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!

Arg 100 - 0 Brazil Tongue

By Samor

Paragon (2029)

Samor's picture

25-05-2005, 16:38

>>Kinda strange to pay so much for something which only does MSX1 while second-hand MSX1 computers switch owners for peanuts. The most logical thing would be to increase the number of features in stead of starting from scratch. This brings up a strange déjà-vu feeling with MSX-BASIC's INPUT statement...

Well, it's new, not second hand; that's one. I'm far more willing to pay for something new as opposed to an old second hand msx with scratches and yellow keyboard.
Of course, there's the whole "it's not the same hardware so it's not real" discussion that could follow out of this. That could make for quite an extensive discussion actually. Wink
Bottom line for me: a new MSX for roughly 1/10th of the price a new MSX costed in 1985/6 is a fairly decent deal.

and yes, the C64DTV was way cheaper but this little baby is shaping up to have a far greater usability Wink

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5366)

NYYRIKKI's picture

25-05-2005, 17:35

I agree, that I can't see a reason to buy MSX when I actually don't get anything more than I already have. Only difference is, that this new MSX still might have some compatibility problems. If they would start expanding the standard the product would be a lot more interesting.

For example, they could add 2 I/O ports to adjust right/left balance of each PSG/FM-PAC/Music-Module/PCM/SCC channel. This way it would be easy to add stereo support to old games and people would buy this new MSX, because they would like to get this new feature.

By snout

Ascended (15187)

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25-05-2005, 17:48

Well, the One Chip MSX already has 2 cinch audio outputs, which means an FPGA developer could add this functionality himself. Or any other (pseudo) stereo effect for that matter.

By sunrise

Paragon (1091)

sunrise's picture

25-05-2005, 20:27

Well to be sure MSX Association can always consider to buy or lend a Moonsound( negotiable). Before producing ...
Maybe they will implement it once in a new player ..

By Sonic_aka_T

Enlighted (4130)

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25-05-2005, 22:46

937 Sad (would've liked to hit 1000 today)

By snout

Ascended (15187)

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26-05-2005, 00:07

Sunrise: Mr. Yokoi of MSX Association owns both a Moonsound and a GFX9000, so I think a test can be arranged. Of course, I'll report to you as soon as this has been done, but... it could take a while Wink

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5366)

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26-05-2005, 00:09

Well, the One Chip MSX already has 2 cinch audio outputs, which means an FPGA developer could add this functionality himself.

Yes, I can already imagine typical MRC post in 2010...

This is my latest MSX demo. To download, click here. The archive contains binary and needed firmware. To make this possible I patched t-state counter and removed PSG and RTC support. I used already well working known PSG I/O support to implement experimental MP3 decoder. To improve performance I also patched VDP to work trough memory on slot 3-3. Unused VDP HMMC command was replaced with texturemap support.

BTW I just tried Koen's latest firmware and still has this "feature", that playing third SCC channel will make reading mouse from joystick port 1 to fail. I think, I still stick to GeorgeMSX standard.

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout's picture

26-05-2005, 00:14

LOL @ Nyyrikki. Just you wait for that snoutMSX dude Wink

By djh1697

Paragon (1409)

djh1697's picture

26-05-2005, 00:22

i tried to click here and nothing happened Sad

By flyguille

Prophet (3029)

flyguille's picture

26-05-2005, 00:24

if i have got time somewhile, i will implement a turbo speed function for improve a bit mnbios performance.

or maybe a 5th page!

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9767)

wolf_'s picture

26-05-2005, 00:34

whoa NYYRIKKI! Way cool demo man!

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5366)

NYYRIKKI's picture

26-05-2005, 00:59

2015:

Philip just told, that he has managed to squeeze PMSX 8.2.2 to work also in OC-MSX Hardware revisions F and G. He also asked a bit help: "If you have hardware revision J,K or N I would really appreciate if you could test if any of these firmwares work on your device. If none of these work, please test attached file and mail me back the caps-led blink sequence. Hardware revision is typically printed to lower right corner of motherboard in format OCMxxxxxx-HW* where "*" is the hardware revision." Luis Gambado aka Lugo is also working on porting this to Nokia 827 Blueray recorder.

By Samor

Paragon (2029)

Samor's picture

26-05-2005, 01:53

does Space Manbow work again with revision N, NYYRIKKI?

By poke-1,170

Paragon (1756)

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26-05-2005, 02:36

MSX = Mayhem Set-up Xperiments by 2010 then Smile

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5366)

NYYRIKKI's picture

26-05-2005, 08:32

Samor: AFAIK SpaceManbow actually works with the crappy original firmware, if you don't use any software using VDP adjust registers before you load SM. Unfortunately reset does not work, so I suggest you to update firmware every time before you try to play SM. You can also try GeorgeMSX. With GeorgeMSX the sprites sometimes flicker a bit and sprites are drawn actually one line too early, but you really can't see these problems, if you don't know them.

Wolf: It is great to see, that someone is actually looking my demos. I hardly ever get any feedback! Thank you my friend!!!

By sunrise

Paragon (1091)

sunrise's picture

26-05-2005, 10:29

Thanks snout for the answer. I knew that Yokoi-san have a GFX and a CF-Interface. I was unaware of the Moonsound, but I can guess now the one who buy that Moonsound for him ...

Am I patient man, but people may guess how many things are waiting for the inpatient people right in say a few months, right?

By Maggoo

Paragon (1195)

Maggoo's picture

26-05-2005, 12:06

Jokes aside, you got to admit that the concept of "programmable/expandable" hardware is way cool. I mean I don't expect we'll obtain a power beast with that but if it could allow to "fix" some of the original annoying features of the MSX, this would already be a big plus for me, and also simplify the time wasted to work around those crappy limits. I have no clue how to program a FPGA but I doubt it would be THAT hard to tweak a bit the VDP implementation to have things like bitmap sprites, bitmap screen 4 mode or even simply remove that stupid 4/8 sprites per row limit. Not to mention stuffs like double PSG implementation (one for music, one for sound effects)

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9767)

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26-05-2005, 12:35

Not to mention a means to finally get rid of that vdp pipeline..

By Algorythms

Champion (285)

Algorythms's picture

26-05-2005, 14:25

> or even simply remove that stupid 4/8 sprites per row limit.

Which means we then could play those games that have the really annoying flicker effect without getting an epileptic seizure...

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout's picture

26-05-2005, 14:26

indeed! Aleste2 without any slowdowns/flickering sprites at all, anyone? Smile

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5366)

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26-05-2005, 14:42

Ok, let's be more serious, but do you think, I have horribly wrong vision? You are already planning, that "these features have bothered me 20 years now, finally I can fix them!" This could have happened with MSX emulators as well, but it seems, that this word "hardware" makes people more open to expand the standard with own ideas. That is good, but if MSX Association is not aware and start to continuously develop the MSX standard, it is possible, that we have soon huge amount of different virtual hardware extentions more or less compatible with each other.

From enduser point of view I don't see that much difference with MSX emulator done by software and MSX emulator done by programmable hardware. At least at the moment mobilephone with fMSX sounds more working and cheaper version. At the moment it looks like phones have also more keys than one chip MSX is going to have.

By Latok

msx guru (3673)

Latok's picture

26-05-2005, 14:59

957.

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout's picture

26-05-2005, 15:18

NYYRIKKI: I think there's little reason to be negative about that. As long as the required VHDL is bundled with the software that needs it... (or at least available at the same website).

Besides, I don't expect every One Chip MSX owner to start developing his own VHDL-MSX system just yet. And even when that happens, it would still be a lot better than every/several MSX owners developing their own MSX hardware systems based on 'conventional' hardware, because then the MSX Community would have to choose. (Am I going to buy the snoutMSX, or the nyyrikkiMSX? I can't run snoutMSX software on the nyyrikkiMSX, and I can't run nyrikkiMSX software on the snoutMSX! This problem doesn't exist with the One Chip MSX, thanks to FPGA)

As you can read in the summary of Nishi's MSX World 2005 lecture, MSX Association (and Bazix) will, with the consent of the authors of course, mark several VHDL extensions as official 'MSX standard enhancing VHDL extensions'. (Making them the most likely extensions to be used by a broad audience). Especially when MSX-VHDL developers share knowledge, join forces and cooperate, this might lead to the most surprising updates to the MSX standard. ;)

By SLotman

Paragon (1214)

SLotman's picture

26-05-2005, 17:42

Just dreaming here, but if sprite limit per line is removed, and bitmapped sprites are implemented (the first one should be simple, the second a pain in the ...) then prince of persia would be possible on a MSX1 with *very* decent graphics Smile

In fact a LOT of games would be possible... wouldnt it be nice if the one chip already came with such things pre-made?

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout's picture

27-05-2005, 01:45

I think all attention of MSXA goes to making the completely MSX2 compatible VHDL code. When that's done, some members of MSXA might start to actively contribute to future One Chip MSX improvements, but I'm personally counting on the MSX/FPGA community as well Wink

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9767)

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27-05-2005, 10:58

uh.. MSX/FPGA community? That sounds a bit like it's 'one'.. we agree there's an MSX community, but how many ppz know stuff about FPGA? Might we run the risc that no-one makes new stuff for the 1cm because no-one knows how to deal with FPGA?

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9767)

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27-05-2005, 10:59

ps. this newspost is now holder of the record, with more reactions than 2201 Smile

By snout

Ascended (15187)

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27-05-2005, 11:04

wolf_ the '/' meant and/or in this case Wink Either way... there are already quite a few members of the MSX Community actively developing in FPGA and I think several others will be more than willing to learn a thing or two about VHDL once they get their hands on a One Chip MSX. As for the FPGA community, the One Chip MSX might be an interesting device as it comes with a nice casing and the standard input and output connectors needed to see the results of what you actually have been doing in VHDL.