LIFE ON MARS by Kai Magazine released

LIFE ON MARS by Kai Magazine released

by PAC on 11-12-2015, 20:30
Topic: Software
Tags: Kai Magazine
Languages:

THE UNITED NATIONS ESTABLISHED A COLONY ON MARS TO INVESTIGATE THE UNDERGROUND WATERS OF MARS AND FIND OUT IF THERE IS ANY KIND OF LIFE. 2 YEARS LATER, EARTH LOST CONTACT WITH THE COLONY.

THE UNITED NATIONS SENT A SPACESHIP TO MARS IN ORDER TO FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENED.

AFTER A 7 MONTHS JOURNY, THE U.N.S.S. BARCELONA ARRIVED TO THE ORBIT OF MARS AND IT IS READY TO LAUNCH A ONE MAN SHIP TO THE MARS COLONY.

THAT MAN IS YOU.

This is the brief introduction behind this new game by Kai Magazine, an MSX2 action-platformer game that features good graphics and musics. Are you ready to explore the Red Planet? As a nice addition, the game includes a minigame called BOMB TOURNAMENT, a multiplayer game (2 or 3 players battle) with the option of selecting any of the six maps or musics shown in the main game.

The game will be released as a 512KB megarom cartridge. The requirements are MSX2 or higher with at least 128KB RAM/128KB VRAM (OPL4/MOONSOUND version) or 64KB RAM/128KB VRAM (FM-PAC/MUSIC MODULE version).

The price will be 39€ plus shipping costs. The Spanish version will be ready next week and the English version within 10 days. If you want to order your copy write to kennethalbero@hotmail.com. Paypal (kennethalbero@hotmail.com) or bank transfer are allowed.

Relevant link: LIFE ON MARS video

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Comments (272)

By Omega

Master (147)

Omega's picture

11-12-2015, 21:11

Oh wow, very nice! \o/

By DracoFrisco

Expert (83)

DracoFrisco's picture

11-12-2015, 21:17

I want one copy!!!

By Sandy Brand

Expert (102)

Sandy Brand's picture

11-12-2015, 21:43

Wow, the styling of this game is really good! Well done!

By Grauw

Enlighted (5626)

Grauw's picture

11-12-2015, 21:44

Looks really good, and interesting! Sending a mail Smile.

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (5755)

ARTRAG's picture

11-12-2015, 21:48

One for me ( in English )
Wink

By sd_snatcher

Prophet (2390)

sd_snatcher's picture

11-12-2015, 21:59

What a beautiful and well designed game! Congratulation for such wonderful work! It's so good to have new MSX2 games around!

Is this really XBASIC (aka BASIC-Kun) running in screen-8? oO It it is, that makes it an even more impressive feat!

Will it only be sold as cartridges, or will it be possible to buy a digital version like the previous Kai Magazine releases?

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

11-12-2015, 22:16

Hello, thank you all for your kind words Smile

This is xbasic running in screen 5 (16 colors) on a turbo-r. Msx2 version (z80) runs at the same speed with moonsound, but at times it will skip 1 frame. The FM pac msx2 version runs even faster. We might have to slow it down.
So the next person who claims turbo basic is slow and useless, just show them this Smile
This new engine is compatibilizing fm, music module, moonsound with sampled sound effects, z80 and r800, frameskipping and many other features, all made in turbo basic.
This engine can be used to create arcade games similar to rastan saga, sunset riders, ghoulds and ghosts, metal slug and many others, with beautifull graphics, fm or moonsound, and a very decent speed.
We will release the code in a few months (6 or so) and we will explain how it works so with a few modifications and the tools we will provide, creative msx users with a decent understanding of basic can create their own games.
It has room for a hardware smooth scroll for 2+ and turbo r but I removed it because turbo basic creates a flickering effect too anoying. If someone can create an small ASM subroutine to handle the scroll we can make it even better.

We will only release it on cartridge format this time.

Since this first batch of 50 cartridges is almost sold out we encourage you to place the orders the sooner the better.
We will make another batch of 50 cartridges more for the next month if we get enough orders, so after this first batch is sold out we will accept pre orders until we get to 50 more, to be produced and delivered on February.

As it has been explained above, the shipping will begin next week for the spanish version and in 10 days approx for the english version.

Thank you everyone for your support Smile
Enjoy!

By Arkhan

Champion (259)

Arkhan's picture

11-12-2015, 22:28

I liked the graphics in this game better when they were in Metroid Fusion.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/metroid/images/0/04/Rech...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhExgEKQpvk&feature=youtu.be...
vs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFKusOerZDA&feature=youtu.be...

(7:02 for Life On Mars and 16:00 for Metroid Fusion video, if the timestamp doesn't work right)

What else was ripped/stolen?

for 39EUR?

I think that might be illegal. The whole "stealing Nintendo's art and charging for it" thing...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhExgEKQpvk&feature=youtu.be...
vs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFKusOerZDA&feature=youtu.be...

(4:37 for LOM and 1:40:44 for Metroid Fusion)

By AxelF

Champion (305)

AxelF's picture

11-12-2015, 22:30

Uhu, and inferno does not have stolen graphics...

By Arkhan

Champion (259)

Arkhan's picture

11-12-2015, 22:33

Stolen from where?

By giuseve

Paladin (711)

giuseve's picture

11-12-2015, 22:52

Please tell me i can buy from you a .rom version to use on my megaflashromsccsd.
I promise i will never give this .rom to anyone.
But i cannot get more cart in my house !11

By Edwin

Paragon (1178)

Edwin's picture

11-12-2015, 22:56

I personally don't mind too much if stuff is used from other games. But it does get a bit dicey when it gets sold. And Nintendo is not known for being ok with it when their stuff is being "borrowed".

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

11-12-2015, 23:01

Please remember this is an 8bit msx2 with 16 colors. The GBA is a 16 buit with hardware specs way beyond, similar to the SNES.
We were unable to make a 1:1 port, but we did what we could.

(by the way, there are many msx ports from other games such as uridium and many others, no problem there, right?)

regarding the costs: 39 euro include the game cartridge (which those are not cheap at all, we are not talking about a floppy disk), box, cartridge folder and full color instruction manual.
Once you deduce all the costs from the physical production of the game, whatever little remains consider it for all the msx coding, the creation of the moonsound musics, the fm and music module adaptation, complete mapping of the game, and many other original graphics, such as the ones on the intro, main menu, box, enemies, characters, and many areas of the game.

So, basically, 90 per cent of the game...

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

11-12-2015, 23:02

giuseve wrote:

Please tell me i can buy from you a .rom version to use on my megaflashromsccsd.
I promise i will never give this .rom to anyone.
But i cannot get more cart in my house !11

Hello, we will not sell a digital version of the game, sorry...

By Arkhan

Champion (259)

Arkhan's picture

11-12-2015, 23:47

Kai Magazine wrote:

Please remember this is an 8bit msx2 with 16 colors. The GBA is a 16 buit with hardware specs way beyond, similar to the SNES.
We were unable to make a 1:1 port, but we did what we could.

(by the way, there are many msx ports from other games such as uridium and many others, no problem there, right?)

regarding the costs: 39 euro include the game cartridge (which those are not cheap at all, we are not talking about a floppy disk), box, cartridge folder and full color instruction manual.
Once you deduce all the costs from the physical production of the game, whatever little remains consider it for all the msx coding, the creation of the moonsound musics, the fm and music module adaptation, complete mapping of the game, and many other original graphics, such as the ones on the intro, main menu, box, enemies, characters, and many areas of the game.

So, basically, 90 per cent of the game...

I find this response very disingenuous. I don't think you meant to get caught. At least it doesn't seem this way when you're accepting praise from people who don't realize what they're looking at is a plethora of stolen art, so the style is not yours.

You also don't really need to educate me on the cost breakdown of your game. I am aware of the costs of PCBs and chips, printed materials. and the amount of effort involved in creating a game.

By Edwin

Paragon (1178)

Edwin's picture

11-12-2015, 23:48

Kai Magazine wrote:

(by the way, there are many msx ports from other games such as uridium and many others, no problem there, right?)

You're not exactly mentioning that you're porting anything. But more importantly, this is Nintendo you took stuff from. That's the company that went after youtubers for monetizing videos of their games. If they ever got wind of this, you can be sure that they wouldn't be amused. Not worth the risk if you ask me.

By Arkhan

Champion (259)

Arkhan's picture

11-12-2015, 23:52

Edwin wrote:
Kai Magazine wrote:

(by the way, there are many msx ports from other games such as uridium and many others, no problem there, right?)

You're not exactly mentioning that you're porting anything. But more importantly, this is Nintendo you took stuff from. That's the company that went after youtubers for monetizing videos of their games. If they ever got wind of this, you can be sure that they wouldn't be amused. Not worth the risk if you ask me.

He isn't porting anything. Borrowing art and putting a game together from it is not porting.

Life On Mars doesn't exist elsewhere to be ported to MSX.

Stealing != Porting.

By RetroTechie

Paragon (1414)

RetroTechie's picture

12-12-2015, 00:25

Wow looks very nice! Wouldn't mind giving it a spin. Big smile

Kai Magazine wrote:

regarding the costs: 39 euro include the game cartridge (which those are not cheap at all, we are not talking about a floppy disk), box, cartridge folder and full color instruction manual.
...

Certainly not arguing the cost of cartridges, boxes, printed manuals etc. But this line of reasoning makes no sense:

By selling as a cartridge only, # of potential buyers is limited to those willing to shell out € 39 (+ shipping?). Which will be relatively small. Thus you'll see a small count of "profit". Or viewed another way: recouping your investment of time/money somehow, would have to be done by a very small # of buyers.

By also selling as digital download, you would expand that group of potential buyers a lot, since per-item cost can be lowered significantly, and shipping cost is essentially 0. Thus your investment can be recouped by many more buyers, and you see a larger count of "profit". Not to mention that no cartridges / pcb's / boxes etc need be produced for customers who don't care about that.

Only exception would be if group of potential buyers is more or less the same between those options, say a small community where 'everybody' would buy the cartridge anyway.

MSX community is small, but big enough that regular market principles apply: lower price = more buyers, it's that simple. (and most MSX users will already have whatever hardware needed to run this game).

For illegal distribution it makes little or no difference, once cartridge in hand it should be easy to extract a working copy that doesn't need original cartridge (as it's always been). So you're relying on buyers' goodwill in any case.

By Grauw

Enlighted (5626)

Grauw's picture

12-12-2015, 00:40

Arkhan, legally there is no difference at all, both are unlicensed use of assets from a third party. In the case of a port, you also infringe on trademark and content like story and music, whereas in this title there’s quite a lot more original work in comparison. If you can tolerate the one you should tolerate the other IMO Smile. You can be against it, but at least be consistent Smile.

Anyway, let’s not put too much of a downer on this nice new MSX2 game shall we. Point made, point taken, good to be aware of. Doesn’t need to turn into a multi-page burnfest. Now get mad at the maker of Flappy Bird who made a shit ton of money on Mario art Smile.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5036)

mars2000you's picture

12-12-2015, 00:29

Kai Magazine : It's a shame that digital distribution is not an option this time. Again, most MSX fans, those who use emulators, are forgotten. But maybe you will change your mind in a few years ... So, let's wait. In the meantime, for me, the game does not exist.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

12-12-2015, 00:42

Thank you for your perspective, we will consider it in the future, perhaps in 6 months or so.
Our aim is oviously not the profit.
We invested near 1000 hours on the production of this game, which is an equivalent of more than 5 months working 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.
To be profitable we should earn at least 1200 euro * 5 = 6000 euro.
We will sell between 50 to 100 copys on any format. At a profit of 10 euro for each copy, that makes between 500 to 1000 euro tops.
If it is money what we would want, we would have spent those hours by making something for android and iphone (we ARE in fact doing something for android and iphone as well).

The MSX never had a metroid, and we wanted to make one. At least similar.

Also, this was something unplanned. I was working on a fast engine for another game (kai's rage) to work fast on z80 with moonsound, and while testing the performance with several characters at the same time, it occurred to me to make a mini game (bomb tournament) which was ready only after 4 weekends. But we also wanted to create some 1 player contens, so I used this storyline I developed for a screen 8 graphic adventure I had in mind, about the research of life forms in the water of mars.
This small casual mini game became a macro production of 1000 hours... But because we wanted to do something beautifull and never done before on msx.
There is no profit on msx unless you create or port mini or simple games that fit on 64k cartridges and only requiere 100 or 200 hours of total developement.

Anyway, our previous games were sold on disk, megarom and digital format.
We sold near 100 disks, near 100 cartridges, and 5 or 6 digital versions.
Those are the facts we have...

But thanks anyway! As I said, we will contemplate it in the future.
Regards!

By Arkhan

Champion (259)

Arkhan's picture

12-12-2015, 00:45

Grauw wrote:

Arkhan, legally there is no difference at all, both are unlicensed use of assets from a third party. In the case of a port, you also infringe on trademark. Also, I think there’s quite a lot more original work in this title than in a port. If you can tolerate the one you should tolerate the other IMO Smile. You can be against it, but at least be consistent Smile.

Anyway, let’s not put too much of a downer on this nice new MSX2 game shall we. Get mad at the maker of Flappy Bird who made a shit ton of money on Mario art Smile.

I am not sure if you know really know what the word "port" means.

The point here is someone passing off another artist's work as their own creations, while asking 39EUR for it, and then claiming it's a port, when it's not, likely because the cat is out of the bag.

Nobody should have to tolerate paying for stolen goods.

A port is a completely different story, because you go into it expecting it to be a thing that already exists that is not that person's creation...

and as such, you likely wouldn't expect to pay for an unlicensed port, because you'd hope the creator isn't going to be that mental to go and ask money for something like that.

By Grauw

Enlighted (5626)

Grauw's picture

12-12-2015, 00:49

Rrraaaage.

By Arkhan

Champion (259)

Arkhan's picture

12-12-2015, 00:50

Kai Magazine wrote:

*a bunch of images*

I think you've radically missed the point while trying to dig yourself out of the ditch.

Using pixelated renditions inspired by real works/people is not the same as literally taking exact tiles of art from someone else's game, followed by lying about it or flat out omitting that the theft exists...

homage is not a synonym for theft.

By Grauw

Enlighted (5626)

Grauw's picture

12-12-2015, 00:54

Rrrraaaage.

Are you done yet?

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

12-12-2015, 00:53

I am not saying it is a port, it is not, I said 90'% of the work is originaly ours, and we spent arround 1000 hours creating it.
Most games have ideas, concepts, and modified things from other things... or are copys from other things...
A port should have less merit than this; only because I used some concepts and some tiles from metroid (since I was creating something very similar to metroid, it makes sense) it does not mean I am a thief and a stealer and everything we did is crap, and we should go to jail, and etc....
The story, most graphics, enemies, musics, coding... 90 per cent of the game is made by us.
Try to get over it, man...
Also we arew not running a multi billion dollar operation here, we are 2 msx users who will distribuye less than 50 or 100 copys for almost no profit at all, so calm down, bro...

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

12-12-2015, 00:55

Arkhan wrote:
Kai Magazine wrote:

*a bunch of images*

I think you've radically missed the point while trying to dig yourself out of the ditch.

Using pixelated renditions inspired by real works/people is not the same as literally taking exact tiles of art from someone else's game, followed by lying about it or flat out omitting that the theft exists...

homage is not a synonym for theft.

Did you read the article at the link under those images?

Calm down bro...

By Arkhan

Champion (259)

Arkhan's picture

12-12-2015, 01:03

Grauw wrote:

Rrrraaaage.

Are you done yet?

Done what? Trying to discuss things while you sit there like an obtuse knob, contributing nothing but pointless "raaaage" statements? lol.

Kai Magazine wrote:

I am not saying it is a port, it is not, I said 90'% of the work is originaly ours, and we spent arround 1000 hours creating it.
Most games have ideas, concepts, and modified things from other things... or are copys from other things...
A port should have less merit than this; only because I used some concepts and some tiles from metroid (since I was creating something very similar to metroid, it makes sense) it does not mean I am a thief and a stealer and everything we did is crap, and we should go to jail, and etc....
The story, most graphics, enemies, musics, coding... 90 per cent of the game is made by us.
Try to get over it, man...
Also we arew not running a multi billion dollar operation here, we are 2 msx users who will distribuye less than 50 or 100 copys for almost no profit at all, so calm down, bro...

Stealing someone else's art quite literally means you are a thief, lol. Nor does justifying the theft due to "we're making a similar game" make it OK.

The bulk of the tilework seems to be lifted from another game. This is shady, especially when you're asking for money.

I personally don't think you had any intention of mentioning that you stole artwork until it was pointed out. Your back pedaling, deflection, and weak justifications imply this.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

12-12-2015, 01:06

UUUAUUH!

First, anyone who has ever played metroid will see that some areas are taken from there, I was fully aware of that, but considering the msx games that have been published over the last 20 years (bombaman, sonyc, uridium, batman msx2, gauntlet msx2, who dares wins msx2, Ghoulds and ghosts, super mario world, and basically most games that have been developed the last 2 decades, have a large amount of tiles "stolen", so, while I was 100% sure that many people would recognize elements from metroid (oviously), I would have never guessed that someone would have minded, and even less with this energy.
I do not know what kind of nerve has been touched there but I belive this is not normal.

You made your point. Good for you. Now check the last 20 years msx catalog. Get over it bro...

By Grauw

Enlighted (5626)

Grauw's picture

12-12-2015, 01:12

And yet you think unlicensed ports are different? Uridium was also sold you know. And Archomage. And Sonyc. And Gauntlet. And Jawbreaker. There are such numerous examples. Do you give them such amounts of flak? I don’t get it, truly. It just doesn’t make sense to make such a distinction.

Also, you’re not “trying to discuss”, it’s more like raging and attacking.

By syn

Paragon (1528)

syn's picture

12-12-2015, 01:13

The problem is that in the case of Uridium (and the others like Super Mario World, Pointless Fighting, Gauntlet, Sonyc, Batman, etc etc) people knew beforehand that it uses borrowed graphics, so people dont complain because they know it is a remake/port/tribute/fangame

In this case the game is already released but as far as I know, it was never mentioned that it uses borrows gfx.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

12-12-2015, 01:14

Most grahics are originally made by me, if it helps...

By Arkhan

Champion (259)

Arkhan's picture

12-12-2015, 01:20

Kai Magazine wrote:

UUUAUUH!

First, anyone who has ever played metroid will see that some areas are taken from there, I was fully aware of that, but considering the msx games that have been published over the last 20 years (bombaman, sonyc, uridium, batman msx2, gauntlet msx2, who dares wins msx2, Ghoulds and ghosts, super mario world, and basically most games that have been developed the last 2 decades, have a large amount of tiles "stolen", so, while I was 100% sure that many people would recognize elements from metroid (oviously), I would have never guessed that someone would have minded, and even less with this energy.
I do not know what kind of nerve has been touched there but I belive this is not normal.

You made your point. Good for you. Now check the last 20 years msx catalog. Get over it bro...

I think you are lying about the stolen tiles, personally. Also, I thought you were supposed to be some highly regarded graphics artist, so I don't understand why you would need to borrow.

The difference in many of the examples you have stated is, those ones were not trying to pull the wool over people's eyes. It is pretty clear when you see a game like Mario that the art is stolen.

I don't support that stuff either generally.

I'm also hardly expending any energy to point any of this out. You can keep saying "get over it bro" and deflecting all you want, it doesn't change anything or make it better. You've already manufactured the cartridges with stolen art on them.

Grauw wrote:

And yet you think unlicensed ports are different? Uridium was also sold you know. And Archomage. And Sonyc. And Gauntlet. There are such numerous examples. Do you give them flak? I don’t get it, truly. It just doesn’t make sense.

Also, you’re not “trying to discuss”, it’s more like raging and attacking.

Part of that is a side effect of not being able to post on MRC due to some moronic proxy issue that took forever to get resolved and is only resolved due to hoop jumping, honestly.

I made no such claims that unlicensed "ports" (again, look this word up. Ports imply original source was used. What you are all bringing up are called "remakes" or "clones". Eyeballing != porting.) are different.

However, they *are* different in the sense that they aren't trying to dupe anyone or play it off like things aren't stolen.

If you think this is raging and attacking, you're pretty clueless. I'm just stating facts.

EDIT: And the truth of it is, you've contributed dick-all to the discussion, and have mostly existed here to instigate, so, you have yourself to blame for any lack of discussion.

Not to mention, disingenuous nonsense and overstatements used in a manner to deflect from what has occurred.

It's not a great mystery that Uridium (which sucks in the first place), or Gauntlet, Sonic, or Mario games on MSX are not original and are clearly remakes.

note: not ports. You should understand the difference. You program.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

12-12-2015, 01:22

I needed to borrow because the game had to be ready for the past barcelona msx reunion.
Also, I really love metroid fusion and I wanted to see some of those screens on the msx, as close as possible to the original, without trying to hide them or modify them to decieve anyone.
Many others are made by me.

Anything else?

By Grauw

Enlighted (5626)

Grauw's picture

12-12-2015, 01:25

Thank you! It’s my fault, I understand now. I’m truly clueless. I’m also sorry I did not use my English words to their precise definitions. I apologise.

Anyway, so you seem to be quite fine with remakes. At least I hope you won’t be kicking up such a fuss when those get released, because then we’ll be in for a nice year full of drama now that your proxy issues are gone.

By Arkhan

Champion (259)

Arkhan's picture

12-12-2015, 01:29

Kai Magazine wrote:

I needed to borrow because the game had to be ready for the past barcelona msx reunion.
Also, I really love metroid fusion and I wanted to see some of those screens on the msx, as close as possible to the original, without trying to hide them or modify them to decieve anyone.
Many others are made by me.

Anything else?

Can you explain why you made no mention of borrowed graphics until it was pointed out? The whole thing seems awfully suspicious, and isn't helped by strange reasonings/defenses/backpedaling/deflecting.

@Grauw: You're kind of a giant waste of time. You're just spouting platitudes, nonsense, reaching overstatements, and sarcastic/flippant uselessness. It's honestly making this situation worse. In case you have not noticed, there *is* in fact a discussion taking place, if you'd take off your foil hat and piss off with the assumption that there's rage and attacking going on.

The proxy issues aren't really gone. I brought it up twice, and it went unresolved (shocking), so I just fixed it myself.

I'm not really fine with remakes either. I generally do not buy things chock full o' art from a game I already own, that was done better on a different machine.

Clones (read: all original stuff), sure.
Copy pasta eyeballed remakes? Not really.

You won't see me raising a fuss about them regardless, though. As stated, those games aren't trying to be deceitful.

lying by omission is indeed a thing.

You can drop the sarcastic/condescending bit, too. What are you, 12?

By Grauw

Enlighted (5626)

Grauw's picture

12-12-2015, 01:32

MY foil hat? LOL.

I’M being condescending? (well ok maybe Smile)

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5036)

mars2000you's picture

12-12-2015, 01:32

Arkhan: it's not really a discussion, just the addition of two monologues. That's not really new, as there has always been 2 conflictual sides on the Dutch MSX scene, with some extension outside The Netherlands, all that for a hobby !!! Sad

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

12-12-2015, 01:47

First, this post was posted by someone else I did not post any news here.
Second, severalmonths ago on several facebook pages I stated that I was going to make a metroid for msx. As close as possible. Look it up.
Third, did you ever hear anyone else who made a port, conversion, version or rip off of a game for msx the last 20 years, any of the before mentioned, to say: hello! we made a game and we ripped graphics from there!
That is just stupid. if msx developers get graphics (some of all) do not announce it to the 4 winds to get in trouble.
Anyway, regarding your statements about my strange reasonings/defenses/backpedaling/deflecting:
If I am deflecting, Why the hell am I engaging with you at 1:36 AM about this, asking you "what else", when the most logical and reasonable thing would be to ignore you and go to sleep?

It is ovious that you are discharging a lot of stuff on me because I got some tiles from metroid, and this is a huge thing for you, and here I am getting all your punches without showing no disrespect to you, when you are showing disrespect and bad manners to others.

Well, now that I think about it, perhaps it is best if I just ignore you from now on, because it is ovious that there is something else going on here and whatever I say will not make change your mind, so, in front of a loss cause...

Yes, I go some tiles from metroid fusion. I am a horrible person. (I repeat, 1000 hours of work, 90% of the game is completelly original) but you just use me to download all your rage, hate and frustration.
I am an incompetent horrible person, a thief and a deciever.
You win.

I am going to sleep.

By Arkhan

Champion (259)

Arkhan's picture

12-12-2015, 02:29

I don't know, it's generally good practice to state, and credit when you lift things from somewhere else. Just because a bunch of other groups are doing something dumb does not mean you should join in...

AFAIK, I have not shown any disrespect towards you, just a bit of accusing/questioning about your motives. I think you are really over-exaggerating this supposed rage/hate/frustration and trying to instigate a pity party. It's more a question of why. The reason is fueled by shock/awe more than anything.

and to be fair, some of your commentary is laced with a bit of snark and passive aggression. So, before you go playing this pity party thing like I stormed in and booted you square in the dick, think about that.

now, Grauw on the other hand, whatever. It takes two to tango, and he instigated most of that himself through his flippant nonsense. Not surprising, and par for the course. I remember now why I rarely read or post on this forum.

By Maggoo

Paragon (1156)

Maggoo's picture

12-12-2015, 03:14

Kai, really nice work, I'm in for one english version. Very cool to see what can be achieved in turbo basic with a 4mhz computer, this is a lot of work.

Arkhan, really why so grinchy....

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

12-12-2015, 05:10

Sure Arkhan, you are right and you have the higher moral standards.
Noone should rip graphics or concepts or styles under any circumstance, and if they do, they should state it transparently.
I have learned my lesson from you.
I just found out you "created" a few games yourself.
Let's take a look at them andto your original work, shall we?

Piramid plunder:

An explorer who looks for treasures on piramids. Hmm... the plot seems familiar.
Wait! who is the protagonist?? the guy from king's valley 2!!
Ah no, wait, the hat is brown instead of blue... My bad.
And the mummy's?
http://www.aetherbyte.com/images/pyramid_plunder_screenshot0...
Completelly different...
Price: 42 DOLLARS!

Next: insanity

What?? who is the protagonist?? it cannot be, it is too good to be true!! it is SAMUS from metroid 1 nes!!
Price: 27 USD!!

Next: Protocade.

Or as we call it on msx, "tron"

This one we call asteroids
And this one...

You oviously invented it from scratch.

And now the one you made for msx:
inferno

With graphics from several PC engine (Turbo graph) games, such as "the legendary sword".
Look at the protagonist climbing the stairs, and search the lengendary sword video on youtube and look for the protagonist to climb stairs.
But the atack is different. Remind you of something?? Rastan saga.
And about the backgrounds...

[img]http://www.msxgamesworld.com/images/capturas/Inferno%20(Aetherbyte%20Studios,%202012)%20(4).png[/img]

A 10 euro discount on "life on mars" for the first who guesses where is that red skull from, and many of those tiles!!

tHE SAME FOR ALL THE OTHER GAMES, AND NONE ARE FREE OR CHEAP

HOW DARE YOU GIVE ME SUCH A SPEECH ABOUT RIGHT OR WRONG, ABOUT NOT TAKING GRAPHICS OR TILES, TO STATE IT IF YOU DO (THERE IS NO SUCH STATEMENT ON YOU WEB PAGE) AND CALLING ME THIEF, WHEN YOU HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR YEARS??!! NOT ONLY THE GRAPHICS, BUT THE CONCEPTS, GAMEPLAY, AND EVEN SOME MUSICS!!
HOW CAN EXIST SOMEONE WITH SUCH LITTLE SHAME??!!
HOW CAN YOU LOOK AT YOURSELF IN THE MIRROR???

ARE YOU INSANE???? ARE YOU SO NEEDY FOR ATTENTION THAT YOU HAVE TO PUT DOWN OTHER PEOPLE'S WORK?? EVEN ACCUSING THEM OF ALL THE THINGS YOU DID MANY TIMES BEFORE??
HOW CAN ANYONE DO THIS AND SAY ALL THIS WHEN YOU RIPPED ALL THE GRAPHICS, CONCEPTS AND GAMEPLAY FOR YOUR GAMES???!!

ARE YOU MENTALLY ILL?? HAVE YOU NO SHAME AT ALL??!!

You should get banned from this forum or any other msx forum.

By mesiasmsx

Prophet (3017)

mesiasmsx's picture

12-12-2015, 08:17

Everyone is free to do with your product what you want.
Using or not using emulator is free for everyone, and have a real MSX, MSX are still many in the second hand market.

Emulators are good and bad at the same time. Many people are used to having everything to free to play through their MSX emulator while you have a shelf or chest.

We continue having a community that continues to demand cartridge games and they give us a chance.

It can be a good option but digital download KAI is his right to do so.

Which is a port or graphics ripped from Metroid? I do not know since I'm not a fan of Nintendo. Perhaps this is problem for some. Not buying enough.

We can complain about something we do not like. But sometimes the line between constructive comment from one destructive is very thin.

Thanks KAI for support the MSX System.

By valkyre

Champion (305)

valkyre's picture

12-12-2015, 09:12

Looks great, cant wait to receive my copy. Well done Kai!

By ericb59

Paladin (719)

ericb59's picture

12-12-2015, 09:47

this discussion goes crazy !
Who care if graphics are ripped or not !
We must be pleased to have another game for MSX that's all !

Thank for your work Oscar !

By Manuel

Ascended (13164)

Manuel's picture

12-12-2015, 10:08

Although it would have been more 'gentleman like' to mention in the news post by the authors that part of the tiles were taken from another game, I don't give a darn about it, I'm just happy some very impressive new cool game has been created for MSX2!
And I'm also very happy that the author is willing to share his engine and the tricks he used to pull this off in MSX-Basic-kun!

(If you're inspired, perhaps you can once make a new batch with replaced graphics? Don't do it for me though, I don't give a darn.)

By giuseve

Paladin (711)

giuseve's picture

12-12-2015, 11:09

I think it's a great job, i agree with Manuel..
Anyway, talking about prices and Cartridges, have a look at this post

By Lord_Zett

Paladin (759)

Lord_Zett's picture

12-12-2015, 11:41

i love working games in basic.

By Arkhan

Champion (259)

Arkhan's picture

12-12-2015, 11:49

Wow, MSX Kai. You've really pulled out all the stops. You went from "chill out bro" and "stop being mean" to "I have lost it."

First:

You're going to have to show me where in any of my games I have stolen music. That is the most outlandish thing you've said in your entire rant. All of the songs in every game were composed from scratch by me.

Now:

1) The character in Pyramid Plunder, while similar, is not the same. There are only so many ways to make a fat 16x16 dumbass in a hat, with an exploration suit. It contains more colors than the KV sprite...

It also contains directional facings that do not even *exist* in Kings Valley 2, and also contains an entire "you died" animation sequence that doesn't exist in KV2, so your assertion that it was stolen is false.

2) The mummy is a similar story. You'll also note that the mummy looks like total crap, because I shaded and animated it before finding someone else to fix/finish/do real art. Don't insult Kings Valley with my crapass rainbow colored mummies that have a jagged walk cycle that I gave up on fixing. If I stole this, wouldn't you figure the cycle would work properly? Question and it would maybe not look like crap?

3) The entire theme/story/etc of Pyramid Plunder was voted on by the PC Engine community from various choices. There was also a tank idea, and a dinosaur idea. This is what was chosen. Do your proper homework before spewing nonsense? It wasn't my first choice, and I was really hoping for dinosaurs, because doing Egypt sounding music was a real pain. I didn't enjoy it.

4) If you'd actually played Insanity, or looked at the cover, you wouldn't have bothered saying anything. The character is male. The suit is not metal. It's a skin tight 1980s SpaceRanger suit with a sailor-looking collar, and a dopey looking helmet... The only similarity is the color scheme, because as art would have it, red and orange go well together. Last I checked, Samus wasn't running around with a pistol, either.

5) The Protocade is literally 3 free games that were produced and given out with source, for people to see how to do various things on the hardware. You can literally see the source. Also, you are missing the point. These 3 games contain zero stolen arts. We raffled off 10 physical game cards as a fundraiser for.....

6) Atlantean. The other game I made that you didn't bother to mention.

7) Legendary Sword? You mean Legendary Axe, and no, the art is not stolen from that game. The size of the sprites is completely different, and that game has way more frames of animation. There's a stark similarity due to them both being half naked dudes with red hair. I wanted him (the player) to have white hair. It looked stupid. Black hair didn't have enough contrast with the backgrounds. So, we arrived at red because blonde was simply a no-go.

The hero has a stance and attack pattern that is definitely a homage to Rastan, but to say it's stolen from that game just demonstrates that you are A) Blind or B) High.

What stairs are you discussing in Legendary Axe?

I'm curious what tiles you think are ripped from other games.

Also again, you've missed the point. Cloning game CONCEPTS was not brought into question. Nobody ever said that was a bad thing. If it were, we'd have like 5 games in existence, ever.

Your rant that was preempted by a pity party, followed by suggesting a universal ban makes me wonder if you should really be questioning if I'm mentally ill. You're the one that seems a bit off.

Lashing out in anger like this never got anybody anywhere. I wasn't posting at you with hateful intent. It was more of an inquisitional one. Believe me, if I was going for the hate filled route, everyone would know.

The prices for my games includes shipping. Nobody complained. The prices were actually suggested and mutually agreed upon by the people who ultimately bought the game.

20$ + Shipping for a professionally pressed CD-ROM game is pretty reasonable. As is 35$ + shipping for one with more features than the 20$ game...

You shouldn't really comment on the PC-Engine/TurboGrafx-16 though, because you can't even spell it right, get the name titles right, or really discuss much of anything about it.

By tonigalvez

Champion (278)

tonigalvez's picture

12-12-2015, 12:04

Kai wrote "First, anyone who has ever played metroid will see that some areas are taken from there, I was fully aware of that, but considering the msx games that have been published over the last 20 years (bombaman, sonyc, uridium, batman msx2, gauntlet msx2, who dares wins msx2, Ghoulds and ghosts, super mario world, and basically most games that have been developed the last 2 decades, have a large amount of tiles "stolen", so, while I was 100% sure that many people would recognize elements from metroid (oviously), I would have never guessed that someone would have minded, and even less with this energy.
I do not know what kind of nerve has been touched there but I belive this is not normal.

You made your point. Good for you. Now check the last 20 years msx catalog. Get over it bro..."

We have the rights from Hewson and Graftgold to develope and sell Uridium for MSX. But, aniway, don't let people to ruin your live as a MSX2 developer. Continue your way Kai. We are gonna get more from you than the other that only talk and talk but really do not does anything.

By Louthrax

Paragon (1369)

Louthrax's picture

12-12-2015, 13:02

That looks great Kai ! Looking forward to play it Smile

By Grauw

Enlighted (5626)

Grauw's picture

12-12-2015, 13:12

.

By GhostwriterP

Champion (488)

GhostwriterP's picture

12-12-2015, 13:29

Kai Magazine wrote:
giuseve wrote:

Please tell me i can buy from you a .rom version to use on my megaflashromsccsd.
I promise i will never give this .rom to anyone.
But i cannot get more cart in my house !11

Hello, we will not sell a digital version of the game, sorry...

Oh that´s ok, I do not mind getting one for free Wink

By syn

Paragon (1528)

syn's picture

12-12-2015, 13:37

Kai: there is a difference between things that look similar/paying homage to something and downright copying. The first is usually okay and generally accepted, while the second a lot of people don't like. If you look at Arkhans products, they may be inspired by other games but you can see the graphics are new/self-draw while in Life On Mars you imported graphics from Metroid Fusion.

Anyway Life On Mars looks okay, it shows you can do nice things with a 16 color palette. The game is 512KB so is it very big (from gameplay point of view like many levels/big map) ? or is most of it used for the moonsound samples? Is the game a classic platform game with different seperate levels or more like the real metroid with 1 big open map with backtracking/puzzles/many items etc etc?

By Grauw

Enlighted (5626)

Grauw's picture

12-12-2015, 13:35

syn: 512K is less than one floppy disk… With bitmap graphics and sample kits, that’s easily filled up I think.

By hap

Paragon (2008)

hap's picture

12-12-2015, 15:17

While I do have an opinion too, I'm not going to bother my time with this discussion. I do want to quote this though!

Please don't mention Uridium in a list of unlicensed work or 'stolen' intellectual property.

Quote:

We have the rights from Hewson and Graftgold to develope and sell Uridium for MSX.

By Grauw

Enlighted (5626)

Grauw's picture

12-12-2015, 15:36

You’re absolutely right. Sorry about that tonigalvez, ARTRAG & co.! It’s truly commendable.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

12-12-2015, 15:46

syn wrote:

Kai: there is a difference between things that look similar/paying homage to something and downright copying. The first is usually okay and generally accepted, while the second a lot of people don't like. If you look at Arkhans products, they may be inspired by other games but you can see the graphics are new/self-draw while in Life On Mars you imported graphics from Metroid Fusion.

Anyway Life On Mars looks okay, it shows you can do nice things with a 16 color palette. The game is 512KB so is it very big (from gameplay point of view like many levels/big map) ? or is most of it used for the moonsound samples? Is the game a classic platform game with different seperate levels or more like the real metroid with 1 big open map with backtracking/puzzles/many items etc etc?

To change a color does not turn the graphic into "self drawn". By that principle I changed the colors as well, so...
He tried to hide the fact that he stole the graphics by modifying them a little bit, and accused me of doing the same while I did not hide such fact.
Also, most of them had to be modified to fit in a 16 color palete, but I tried to make them look as close to the original as possible. Do not think that it did not took a lot of work to show metroid fusion graphics on the msx, it was quite hard. If you do not belive me, just try it...
The rom is 512k but the rom is compressed. The game is 720k exactly.
The memory used for samples is 55k. No more. The rest are graphics, maps, musics, coding, etc.
As I said on facebook, it is a "metroidvania", a big map with backtracking, you will be able to access more areas of the map as you pick objects. There are power ups, bombs, the hability to jump higher, breackable walls to find secret rooms with hidden objects, etc.
The game is not long, we went for quality and variety instead of quantity, and the maps take a lot of memory.

By Hydragon

Champion (489)

Hydragon's picture

12-12-2015, 16:48

The future of MSX Development: Game gfx ripping and put them for sale! But a tiny bit of interest to submit something for any DEV competition is out of the question, afraid of getting bashed in the results about ripping GFX? sounds reasonable Evil

By Grauw

Enlighted (5626)

Grauw's picture

12-12-2015, 16:55

The future of MSX Development: Finding flaws in every new release and bashing it into infinity, rather than celebrating it with perhaps some side remarks. I’ve seen this too often and am getting sick of it.

By Lord_Zett

Paladin (759)

Lord_Zett's picture

12-12-2015, 17:10

Grauw wrote:

The future of MSX Development: Finding flaws in every new release and bashing it into infinity, rather than celebrating it with perhaps some side remarks. I’ve seen this too often and am getting sick of it.

yep be happy. and when you cant make own stuff ask ppl there a lot of msxers who can help you making things.

so im happy some one other than me or deltasoft are making nice basic games!

keep doing that! thats what i love about msx homebrew soft- and hard- ware!

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

12-12-2015, 17:16

Hydragon wrote:

The future of MSX Development: Game gfx ripping and put them for sale! But a tiny bit of interest to submit something for any DEV competition is out of the question, afraid of getting bashed in the results about ripping GFX? sounds reasonable Evil

Did you read all this thread?
did you read we spent 1000 hours of developement?
Did you read that all intro graphics, box, characters, enemies, maps, musics, storyline, most tiles, and all the coding is original?
So because we got SOME tiles from metroid we have no merit at all? all this work is worthless? Really? are you going to focus on that, only?
Really? we just ripped graphics and we did put them on sale? we did nothing else?

By Arkhan

Champion (259)

Arkhan's picture

12-12-2015, 17:29

MSX Kai: I never tried to hide anything. You are the one who decided to retaliate by fighting fire with fire, and doing a miserable, petty, ignorant job at it. I am still waiting for you to backup your claims about my stolen sounds, music, and things from Inferno.

Omitting / playing dumb / dancing around the issue is an attempt at hiding something. I am quite certain you would've never stated that these graphics are lifted, had it not been pointed out.

I was giving you benefit of the doubt up until your spastic rant.

Grauw: I simply pointed out the fact that stolen tilework is running rampant in a game that costs a decent chunk of money, and questioned why, especially because Nintendo. It seemed very shady. Disingenuous things took place. At no point did I rip on anything else with the project.

You want to know what else would really discourage MSX development? Crap like this where someone points out something reasonable, and then gets set upon by a bunch of knobs who start making useless remarks, all the while bitching about how it's not sunshine and rainbows in the thread? You realize other people stated similar things? I get that double standards are often the status quo here, but c'mon.

It's awfully mental to contribute/instigate things, followed by whining on forums/IRC about it. If you want to pull the holier than thou bit, you should probably not leave a paper trail of dumb remarks. I see you edited one into a simple ".". I am sure that one was gold. I unfortunately missed it because this site is picky about what e-mail alerts it actually sends.

Now, how about how developers might feel seeing that a game composed of clearly stolen graphics gets tons of blind praise, while original works and such get blown off for no reason, or for petty reasons? Do you not think that might discourage things? Hint: It already *has* discouraged things.

Or people seeing that lifted materials are praised the same, if not more, than things that probably had more work involved?

I think pointing this out was fair. Unfortunately, your sarcastic/flippant defense of it has instigated quite a mess. Honestly, had you shut up, or maybe said something more productive, this whole thing would have probably been a fairly short discussion. I find it interesting that you've gone from basically being a tool, to being a sappy goober.

By Arkhan

Champion (259)

Arkhan's picture

12-12-2015, 17:32

Kai Magazine wrote:
Hydragon wrote:

The future of MSX Development: Game gfx ripping and put them for sale! But a tiny bit of interest to submit something for any DEV competition is out of the question, afraid of getting bashed in the results about ripping GFX? sounds reasonable Evil

Did you read all this thread?
did you read we spent 1000 hours of developement?
Did you read that all intro graphics, box, characters, enemies, maps, musics, storyline, most tiles, and all the coding is original?
So because we got SOME tiles from metroid we have no merit at all? all this work is worthless? Really? are you going to focus on that, only?
Really? we just ripped graphics and we did put them on sale? we did nothing else?

you are being melodramatic about what a simple statement of "hey, you jacked a bunch of Nintendo tiles and now you're selling it."

I hope you don't get reemed for it. Nintendo has been known to go after people for basically what you are doing.

By knm1983

Master (245)

knm1983's picture

12-12-2015, 17:51

Hi, I'm Xavi Sorinas, a member of Kai Magazine.

Sorry for my poor English.

After hearing the comments of some members of this forum, really, for my part, I have no illusion to continue making games for MSX.

I can respect the ideas of these forum members, but I can not understand the negativity of some, though this is just a hobby and try to make new games to enjoy our MSX.

Regardless if graphics, music, or whatever RIPed.

The important thing is to have fun doing whatever MSX and others can also have fun with their work.

I am very sad for everything that happened.

Please, do not follow with the same thing.

thank you all, Xavi.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

12-12-2015, 18:04

Do not even bother, Xavi. I have been pointed out that this character was banned from this forum under another nickname for doing basically the same thing to other developers, and he will never stop. This is his hobby.
Just ignore him. his intentions have been discovered already, his credibility destroyed, and his lack of ethics at criticizing others for doing the same thing he has been doing himself.
He just has nothing better to do... He will not stop.
Now it is up to the moderators to do something about it.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

12-12-2015, 18:06

By the way, Xavi, do not let any forum bully or troll who thrives on doing this, discourage you from doing what you love.
But now you understand why I told you it's not worth writting in this forum. There are a few bully/trolls who will always try to destroy you because they are uncapable of doing anything decent themselves.

By Ramones

Champion (264)

Ramones's picture

12-12-2015, 18:10

Grauw wrote:

The future of MSX Development: Finding flaws in every new release and bashing it into infinity, rather than celebrating it with perhaps some side remarks. I’ve seen this too often and am getting sick of it.

Good Point Grauw. I agree.
I think, to summarise that the problem isn't gfx ripped or not, turbo basic or not... the problem is free or not free.
If this new Kai Magazine game was free then no "flaws" in the thread. Trust me. Wink I've a bit experience in this matter.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5036)

mars2000you's picture

12-12-2015, 18:20

Kai Magazine wrote:

I have been pointed out that this character was banned from this forum under another nickname for doing basically the same thing to other developers, and he will never stop. This is his hobby.
Just ignore him. his intentions have been discovered already, his credibility destroyed, and his lack of ethics at criticizing others for doing the same thing he has been doing himself.

That's indeed the better to do. I had the same impression with his first reactions on this thread, his way of 'communicating' (but we know it's all other than real communication) makes directly think to a precise person, and he has even betrayed himself when he has talked about proxy using.

Keep on the good work for the MSX community, I like very much your games (even if this time, I'll wait for an eventual digital release).

By Arkhan

Champion (259)

Arkhan's picture

12-12-2015, 18:17

Kai Magazine wrote:

Do not even bother, Xavi. I have been pointed out that this character was banned from this forum under another nickname for doing basically the same thing to other developers, and he will never stop. This is his hobby.
Just ignore him. his intentions have been discovered already, his credibility destroyed, and his lack of ethics at criticizing others for doing the same thing he has been doing himself.
He just has nothing better to do... He will not stop.
Now it is up to the moderators to do something about it.

I was never banned from this forum. Whoever told you that is completely wrong, much like how you were with your sweeping accusations and attempts at deflecting. I am *still* waiting for you to produce the sources for my stolen sounds, music, and most currently, the Inferno art. I think you overplayed your hand there when it would have been best to not say anything.

My intention was to point out that you're charging 39EUR for a game full of Nintendo tiles, which is fair. Nowhere was any of this mentioned, and I highly doubt most of the praisers or people interested had any clue about this. It sure looks like there was an attempt to fool people.

You danced around the issue. It was very disingenuous. You tried to deflect. You played the pity card. You joined in on attempted flaming while complaining about drama.

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

18-12-2015, 06:53

@knm1983 - please don't let the ramblings of one {mod: fellow game developer} spoil your fun in creating games for MSX.
@Arkhan - whatever point you were trying to make, you made it. Rest your case and move on.

This release is not entering a competition where ripped content is not allowed, so to do that or not is their own choice - and I for one am happy to see a new MSX release.

{mod: this meme was intended to add a bit of lightness to the discussion. Please try and see it in that perspective }

By Arkhan

Champion (259)

Arkhan's picture

12-12-2015, 18:20

mars2000you wrote:
Kai Magazine wrote:

I have been pointed out that this character was banned from this forum under another nickname for doing basically the same thing to other developers, and he will never stop. This is his hobby.
Just ignore him. his intentions have been discovered already, his credibility destroyed, and his lack of ethics at criticizing others for doing the same thing he has been doing himself.

That's indeed the better to do. I had the same impression with his first reactions on this thread, his way of 'communicating' (but we know it's all other than real communication) makes directly think to a precise person, and he has even betrayed himself when he has talked about proxy using.

Keep on the good work for the MSX community, I like very much your games (even if this time, I'll wait to an eventual digital release).

You guys are seriously being dumb. I am not Guyver. I am Arkhan. The American person. Mars, you KNOW this. Look at my join date. Use like, half an ounce of common sense.

There is some weird issue where MSX.org won't let me view/post and gives some proxy error half the time when I try to use the site. I've mentioned it to John Hassink on numerous occasions. Go ask him if you don't believe me.

Though, crap like this literally proves Guyver's point about how some people here have some obsession with him. he's not even doing anything and people are assuming he is.

That's pretty moronic.

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

18-12-2015, 06:54

snout wrote:

@knm1983 - please don't let the ramblings of one {mod: fellow game developer} spoil your fun in creating games for MSX.
@Arkhan - whatever point you were trying to make, you made it. Rest your case and move on.

This release is not entering a competition where ripped content is not allowed, so to do that or not is their own choice - and I for one am happy to see a new MSX release.

I think calling me a {mod: I do apologize} is a bit of a shit statement. {mod: agreed} Have you actually read through this thread? Instigation, idiotic accusations, etc.? I thought this place was trying to fix the whole one sided/double standards moderation thing?

I never said I wasn't happy to see a new thing, anyways. We've arrived at some sort of moronic conclusion based off people peeing their pants.

I can't say I am shocked, though?

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

12-12-2015, 18:30

Arkhan - I've read the thread and your communicative and social skills are appalling. Act like that and however right you are people will get annoyed and frustrated. Especially when you start to piss on people who have just released a production they are proud of into the world.

I understand why people mix you up with good old G, because your style of interaction is strikingly similar. Nobody is peeing nobody's pants, you're just making a huge deal about something that's really not worth putting so much energy in. If you don't want to buy the game, don't buy it. Move on. Enjoy your moral highground.

By Arkhan

Champion (259)

Arkhan's picture

12-12-2015, 18:33

snout wrote:

Arkhan - I've read the thread and your communicative and social skills are appalling. Act like that and however right you are people will get annoyed and frustrated..

Coming from you, this made me LOL really hard.

I hardly said much of anything initially, and shit did not hit the fan until MVPs like Grauw did their usual bit.

In fact, other people whom are on the other side of your DoubleStandards(tm) said similar things. And then you essentially support the outlandish, actual nutjob-esque things that are said, all because of as I said, DoubleStandards(tm).

I see not much has changed at this dump. Oh well.

It will all cave in on itself one day.

By snout

Ambassador (15167)

snout's picture

12-12-2015, 18:35

Glad I made you laugh. Keep smiling!

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

12-12-2015, 19:52

Arkhan, you're boring...

By edoz

Paragon (1883)

edoz's picture

12-12-2015, 19:38

Wow. What an discussions here. I don't want to say anything about the discussion. The game looks very nice and it seems that it was a lot of work to make it. Very cool game atmosphere!

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

12-12-2015, 19:46

Sadly from time to time someone puts so much effort in criticising a development, strange behaviour in an small community that aims to keep MSX alive... You can expose your negative opinion in a constructive manner, buy it or not (yeah, it's not mandatory!! Tongue ) but never try to undermine the effort done. Envy, bad faith, who knows I hardly understand this.

To any MSX developer, please be aware, maybe you will be the next one... Wink

By Daemos

Paragon (1647)

Daemos's picture

12-12-2015, 20:05

I just bought it Smile

By Manuel

Ascended (13164)

Manuel's picture

12-12-2015, 20:09

Xavi, as already said, please do not get discouraged in enjoying your hobby by the remarks of only a very small amount of people. Keep having fun and let it be increased by the reactions of all other people! Smile

Don't forget it folks: MSX is something purely for enjoyment. Nothing else. So keep it enjoyable for everyone!

By Arkhan

Champion (259)

Arkhan's picture

12-12-2015, 20:17

PAC wrote:

Sadly from time to time someone puts so much effort in criticising a development, strange behaviour in an small community that aims to keep MSX alive... You can expose your negative opinion in a constructive manner, buy it or not (yeah, it's not mandatory!! Tongue ) but never try to undermine the effort done. Envy, bad faith, who knows I hardly understand this.

To any MSX developer, please be aware, maybe you will be the next one... Wink

Actually, I wasn't undermining effort. In fact, I even stated that MSX Kai doesn't need to educate me on the effort involved. At no point did I deny him of any effort put in. Also, at no point did I say the whole effort was a waste.

You guys are now just fabricating things in a very hyperbolic fashion all due to me pointing out something negative. You'll also note, the only thing I pointed out was the lifted tilework, and what seemed like an attempt to never make mention or credit to it.

I also did not put "so much effort" into pointing these things out. The hyperbole in this thread is approaching terminal velocity. You realize other people have said the same, or similar things, right?

@Meits: Not nearly as boring as your usual, never changing nonsense regard Guyver, and associating all things you don't like with him like some kind of goon.

Grow up. Seriously. You dingleberries don't get to simultaneously bitch about drama, while helping fuel it. That is called counter-productive.

I am not sure when you guys are going to fully grasp these sorts of things.

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

12-12-2015, 20:34

We probably won't be able to indeed.

Quote:

[21:59] {GuyveR800} "Wow, the styling of this game is really good! Well done!" http://www.msx.org/news/software/en/life-mars-kai-magazine-r... {-- that's what you get when you rip the artwork from Metroid Fusion
[21:59] {fuqer} loooooool
[22:00] {fuqer} fucking dicktards
[22:00] {GuyveR800} nobody has replied that fact yet
[22:03] {BiFi} I think nobody there actually noticed the ripping
[22:03] {GuyveR800} yeah
[22:03] {fuqer} wait nobody has pointed it out? lol
[22:03] {GuyveR800} yeah
[22:03] {fuqer} sec.
[22:03] {GuyveR800} they're all idiot clappers
...
[22:28] {fuqer} i was trying to find screenshots but fuck it, youtube links go!
[22:28] {GuyveR800} so blatant
[22:29] {GuyveR800} well done
[22:29] {GuyveR800} I wonder what carnage will ensue
[22:30] {fuqer} Im guessing one of them will accuse me of using stolen Kings Valley sprites for Pyramid Plunder
...
[22:39] {fuqer} i see axelf hasnt produced stolens yet
[22:40] {GuyveR800} you should moderator alert it for being a baseless accusation and insulting to boot
[22:40] {BiFi} and wait for NO ACTION WHATSOEVER
[22:40] {GuyveR800} BiFi: in my experience it works most of the time
[22:40] {GuyveR800} anyway AxelF is now officially on my shitlist
[22:41] {fuqer} lol
[22:41] {BiFi} as kojima said in MGS5: what took you so long?
[22:41] {fuqer} i moderator alerted it
...
[22:49] {GuyveR800} I wonder if Kai Magazine, with his famous Kickstarter campaign, will finally fall out of grace with the Msx Retard Community
[22:50] {BiFi} or fall even more into it
...
[22:54] {fuqer} i should alert nintendo to this
[22:55] {fuqer} lol
[22:55] {fuqer} here MSX.org
[22:55] {fuqer} want some attention
[22:55] {fuqer} brbnintendo
[22:55] {GuyveR800} that might alert them to the Super Mario World "port" too
...

Should I go on? GuyveR800 is banned here and so are his spoonfed minions. Enjoy your ban.

By Grauw

Enlighted (5626)

Grauw's picture

12-12-2015, 20:47

Nice channel, #msxdev. I wonder why their compo failed.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

12-12-2015, 20:49

UAU!
It was ovious that there was something wrong with that guy, but not THAT wrong... This is just EVIL!

Since no cartridge has been sent or distribuyed yet, we are still on time to change the tiles...
This will delay the game release 1 week or 2...

By Hydragon

Champion (489)

Hydragon's picture

12-12-2015, 20:52

Posting some chatlog on here, is actually a very low move. Especially if the people who it does even concern, don't get the chance to even comment on it!

The level of discussion was allready below average, but this is a very childish move.

By knm1983

Master (245)

knm1983's picture

12-12-2015, 21:05

Thanks Kenneth, Snout, Manuel and others for your support.

I try to do what I like and what I like is the MSX enjoying kenneth, making games and learning.

I think we make a great team and we have many projects to be done.

Thank you all, great greetings.

By snout

Ambassador (15167)

snout's picture

12-12-2015, 21:07

@Hydragon: If you start a certain tone of discussion, it's usually not very likely that things will improve. Childish? Maybe, but this kind of sockpuppetting/spoon-feeding has been going on for years and I won't have it any more on MRC.

In another topic I mentioned self-reflection. Perhaps some regulars at #msxdev can do a little bit of that and wonder if their behaviour is really that exemplary of common etiquette. Please let me know if you still want to discuss morality after that.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

12-12-2015, 21:17

Posting that chatlog was very helpful to understand there were no good intentions behind all this discussion, and also warned me about the fact he reported the game to nintendo (THAT IS FU..ING LOW IN MY OPINION!)

Thank you snout, really.

By Hydragon

Champion (489)

Hydragon's picture

12-12-2015, 21:20

Nobody is an actual angel, they might have lost their wings, but same with others here in the topic acting like innocent people in the discussion, so if morality is a game of back-stabbing, thx, but no thx. And in my own opinion, you as being a wm / crew member of MRC posting some chatlog, yes I do think that is a disappointing low blow move, and that is all I have to say about it. And since u wanted me to let me to let you know if I wanted to discuss, well my opinion about it has just been stated and that is about it.

By Grauw

Enlighted (5626)

Grauw's picture

12-12-2015, 21:34

Kai Magazine wrote:

Since no cartridge has been sent or distribuyed yet, we are still on time to change the tiles...
This will delay the game release 1 week or 2...

I don’t think anyone minds waiting a bit.

By Daemos

Paragon (1647)

Daemos's picture

12-12-2015, 21:44

That chatlog made me decide a few things. I believe I have been friendly to the people there in any way I could. In fact I feel deeply backstabbed by these people right now and by now I am sure they love my reaction. So this is how we treat people nowadays and this is how we talk about each others back. The fact that these people are still getting support is a mystery to me.

This chatlog just dented my pleasure for doing things. MSX should be fun it should be enjoyed but right now its a piece of metal and plastic standing on my desk. I am deeply dissapointed, not just in those doing these acts but especially in the people supporting this.

Thank you snout for clearing this up. Posting this chatlog has cleared things up.

We should ban people like this not only on MRC but from big fairs as well.

In the meanwhile I need to make desicions about the future of the project. Motivation has become 0 and I don't won't trouble with nintendo. We will see.

By cax

Prophet (3714)

cax's picture

12-12-2015, 21:50

Thank you very much, guys, for this flame. It reminds me MSX scene is a dangerous place where people bash each other instead of having fun together. Thank you for reminding me I really should spend less time here, because threads like this make me feel bad. You know, sometimes I imagine the community in 10-20 years, and even then the last 2 persons who will still have interest in MSX will continue to insult each other.

By Lord_Zett

Paladin (759)

Lord_Zett's picture

12-12-2015, 21:55

Daemos wrote:

In the meanwhile I need to make desicions about the future of the project. Motivation has become 0 and I don't won't trouble with nintendo. We will see.

Hmmm If was demotivated by logs forums or stuff about my games... damn i never made a game after my first. try. i remember ppl were talking not buying my game becourse its made in basic.

I understand if ppl do not like it becourse of re-use of not own made gfx. but that must just motivate you to make even a greater game!

I do msxing for fun and make games for even more fun.(and alcohol use)

so learn from the good and enjoy!

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

12-12-2015, 21:55

Daemos wrote:

That chatlog made me decide a few things. I believe I have been friendly to the people there in any way I could. In fact I feel deeply backstabbed by these people right now and by now I am sure they love my reaction. So this is how we treat people nowadays and this is how we talk about each others back. The fact that these people are still getting support is a mystery to me.

This chatlog just dented my pleasure for doing things. MSX should be fun it should be enjoyed but right now its a piece of metal and plastic standing on my desk. I am deeply dissapointed, not just in those doing these acts but especially in the people supporting this.

Thank you snout for clearing this up. Posting this chatlog has cleared things up.

We should ban people like this not only on MRC but from big fairs as well.

In the meanwhile I need to make desicions about the future of the project. Motivation has become 0 and I don't won't trouble with nintendo. We will see.

Daemos, there is good people and evil people everywhere (oviously here too). This is how things always have been.
Try not to get influenced by the evil people, who fortunatelly are just a few, and every day more of them get banned, and do the things you love having the good people in mind. I know a lot of msx users in person, and the vast majority are very nice people, and very supporting.

Regarding the nintendo problems, I am sorry I mentioned your project here, I would never have guessed what was really going on in the other side of the screen.
Anyway I really do not think nintendo will mind much about the issue once they find out the active msx comunity arround the world is basically 150 to 300 people, and any game sold will hardly reach 100 units, with barely no profit involved at all. They will understand this is a hobby and the amount of work to do any of this big msx2 productions surpasses by far any theorical "profit" said creations could envolve.
So do not worry, really...

Anyway, you always have the posibility to change the graphics to make something new, which in my opinion, it would be even better.
If you need help with the graphics just let me know, I will be happy to help!

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

12-12-2015, 22:07

By the way, thank you everyone for the private messages you are sending me showing your support and placing orders.
I am sorry the game will be delayed due to last time changes on some tiles.
You are all great! the MSX community is still strong, and the facts are showing this.
Thank you ever so much to all of you for your support, really, with all my heart!

By Daemos

Paragon (1647)

Daemos's picture

12-12-2015, 22:09

you are welcome kai.

By ren

Hero (632)

ren's picture

12-12-2015, 22:12

Now don't fret too much I'd say.. I don't really think 'fuqer'/Arkhan is serious about informing big N (also note the lol following his remark..)

By syn

Paragon (1528)

syn's picture

12-12-2015, 22:19

Wow... how does guyver800 get involved in this thread without posting..... too funny.. Sounds like that Lebron Traveled meme where ppl say he traveled when the guy wasnt even in the video.

Daemos: why do you feel backstabbed? He just said your SMW "port" may be in danger of getting on nintendo's radar if Nintendo was for real alerted about the Life On Mars.. nothing more nothing less.. Nobody was disrespecting your work in the chatlog posted. If you feel attacked by the qoute marks, ("port"), thats because your game is more like a remake (build from scratch) then a port (using the original code).

Kai Magazine wrote:

Posting that chatlog was very helpful to understand there were no good intentions behind all this discussion, and also warned me about the fact he reported the game to nintendo (THAT IS FU..ING LOW IN MY OPINION!)

Thank you snout, really.

You do realize stuff said in internet chatrooms are not always serious? If I say I kill you, how big is the chance that I actually do it? 0%. I doubt anyone send a mail to nintendo for real regarding your game. Anyway good to hear you are replacing the graphics with original work.

By Edi-73

Rookie (22)

Edi-73's picture

12-12-2015, 22:26

One game purchased! I can wait even four weeks Tongue

Thank's Kai

Regards
Marko

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

12-12-2015, 22:32

Stop spinning this, syn. I do agree that it's not likely anyone would have reported anything to Nintendo, but apart from that this is one of many situations where it goes down like this on #msxdev:

GuyveR800: Oh look at this at MRC! It is outrageous!
BiFi: Yes, More Retards Club is at it again!
GuyveR800: Someone should say {fud fud mud mud conspiracy rant rage}
Minion: I'll do it!
(goes to MRC, posts {fud fud mud mud conspiracy rant rage})
GuyveR800/BiFi/Minions: ghehehehehe, we're so cool!!!
ad infinitum

If that isn't bleeding obvious by now then euhm... I don't know... I suppose the world is flat.

By Daemos

Paragon (1647)

Daemos's picture

12-12-2015, 22:34

Quote:

Daemos: why do you feel backstabbed? He just said your SMW "port" may be in danger of getting on nintendo's radar if Nintendo was for real alerted about the Life On Mars.. nothing more nothing less.. Nobody was disrespecting your work in the chatlog posted.

After reading again and having some conversations it is indeed true what you say. I misunderstood the context of the words. Sadly that is the danger of writing as the letters are the only thing you can do the interpretations on. It must also be clear that my previous post may have been send too fast. While it has allready caused damage. I hope that this rectification eases the matters. My sincere apologies towards those I have acused prematurely.

By syn

Paragon (1528)

syn's picture

12-12-2015, 22:39

snout wrote:

Stop spinning this, syn. I do agree that it's not likely anyone would have reported anything to Nintendo, but apart from that this is one of many situations where it goes down like this on #msxdev:

GuyveR800: Oh look at this at MRC! It is outrageous!
BiFi: Yes, More Retards Club is at it again!
GuyveR800: Someone should say {fud fud mud mud conspiracy rant rage}
Minion: I'll do it!
(goes to MRC, posts {fud fud mud mud conspiracy rant rage})
GuyveR800/BiFi/Minions: ghehehehehe, we're so cool!!!
ad infinitum

If that isn't bleeding obvious by now then euhm... I don't know... I suppose the world is flat.

And your point is what exactly? How does this relate to Life on Mars? I have a feeling you are just using this to throw mud at a guy who you are having a longlasting feud with.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

12-12-2015, 22:48

Maybe because I am one of the most affected parties here, I see clearly snout's point:

There is a group of people who sabotages other people's work for pitiful reasons, such envy or whatever reason, I do not know, and a particular person uses a particular practice to manage this wihout actually being here.

This time was Life on Mars turn, and snout saw it, and put an end to it.
Not only that, but he also alerted me and others that this people are doing this practice for long, which will help me to protect better my projects in the future and not to engage with suspiciously asked questions.

This is also a helpful warning for any other msx lovers who intend to develope anything.

Thanks again, snout, I was totally clueless of this facts and this information helped me (and I am sure others as well) a lot.

By Victor

Champion (269)

Victor's picture

12-12-2015, 22:54

Good game Kai!!

Don't wate your time reading those comments....

Thanks for your all work for the MSX comunity!!

By Hydragon

Champion (489)

Hydragon's picture

12-12-2015, 22:57

@Kai Magazine : You kinda sound like a drama queen atm, since you should have known before releasing the game, people would comment about things as in ripping gfx. A development is one thing, but receiving critic on something you could have expect is something you could have taken care of, by making for example releasing it as a pre-release and the actual release with own made stuff. Would have saved a lot of discussion and arguements in here!
Some talk about self-reflecting to ones that critised "your" work, now self-reflect your own mistakes.

By syn

Paragon (1528)

syn's picture

12-12-2015, 23:04

Kai Magazine wrote:

Maybe because I am one of the most affected parties here, I see clearly snout's point:

There is a group of people who sabotages other people's work for pitiful reasons, such envy or whatever reason, I do not know, and a particular person uses a particular practice to manage this wihout actually being here.

This time was Life on Mars turn, and snout saw it, and put an end to it.
Not only that, but he also alerted me and others that this people are doing this practice for long, which will help me to protect better my projects in the future and not to engage with suspiciously asked questions.

This is also a helpful warning for any other msx lovers who intend to develope anything.

Thanks again, snout, I was totally clueless of this facts and this information helped me (and I am sure others as well) a lot.

Where is the sabotage man? I still dont see it? Arkhan (and me, and others) pointed you to potential problems with nintendo due to copyrights. So in response you change it (or at least you say you will). So your game improved and will have no problems with nintendo in the future, the issue is solved now or will be solved.

To be honest, I myself was not interested in your game when I saw all the Metroid Fusion graphics. But since you promised to change the graphics I am now interested and maybe end up ordering as well. Many people in this topic are ordering it. still ordering, despite the discovery of ripped graphics.

So bottomline: It looks like no harm done and you actually gained from this.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

12-12-2015, 23:14

Really...?
Do you really belive that?
Bottom line, it has all been for the best, and no harm done?
no harm done??

holy crap...
Only good intentions were involved in this, right?
there was no intention to harm...

""
[22:00] {fuqer} fucking dicktards
[22:03] {GuyveR800} they're all idiot clappers

[22:29] {GuyveR800} I wonder what carnage will ensue

[22:49] {GuyveR800} I wonder if Kai Magazine, with his famous Kickstarter campaign, will finally fall out of grace with the Msx Retard Community
[22:50] {BiFi} or fall even more into it

[22:54] {fuqer} i should alert nintendo to this
[22:55] {GuyveR800} that might alert them to the Super Mario World "port" too
""

Yes, indeed, pure goodnes and good intentions...
No harm done...

C'MON!
Don't even try, please... I respect you. Don't disappoint me...

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

12-12-2015, 23:19

And that's all he did, to point out potential problems, right? nothing else, nothing else at all...
That is ALL he did...
Perhaps you should read the entire thread again, your memory is failing...

By snout

Ambassador (15167)

snout's picture

12-12-2015, 23:26

My point is that whenever GuyveR800 or one of his minions enters the scene on MRC, the atmosphere goes down the drain, because the tone of voice easily offends people. Of all the possible ways one could point out and ask about ripped graphics the discussion goes straight for the jugular in a way that is only bound to result in a heated discussion.

You can see the exact moment in this thread with Arkhan's post that was inspired by GuyveR's actions on #msxdev. The part I was even kind enough to leave out makes it even more clear:

Quote:

[22:03] {fuqer} allow me to fix this
[22:03] {GuyveR800} the allows!

From then on, mod alerts come flooding in from all sides, MRC and individual crew members are receiving e-mails and meanwhile the discussion spirals out of control. Nobody wants that in the MSX community and apparently preventing GuyveR800 to voice his opinions on MRC (by proxy) is the only way to keep the discussions light and friendly.

Quote:

[22:29] {GuyveR800} I wonder what carnage will ensue

Clearly shows that G800 & co are aware of the effects of their behavior. So if they are such saints, such great minds, such innocent and brilliant MSX community members... Why did they never ever consider changing their tone of voice? Could it perhaps be that they thrive on heated discussions like this? That they would do anything to fuck things up on MRC? Even if it is because they just don't know better, the final result is the same: shit hitting the fan. People getting hurt, discussions going wild.

So be it, after more than a decade of this bullshit there's not a lot of tolerance I have left for this behaviour and the obvious outcome. Syn may be right that the final result (original GFX) is a great plus, but there were countless more pleasant routes to arrive at that destination. And everybody who is not willing to take those routes can funk my trunk and find some other place to be a complete ass.

By Hydragon

Champion (489)

Hydragon's picture

12-12-2015, 23:38

By pitpan

Prophet (3093)

pitpan's picture

13-12-2015, 00:25

Do not feed the trolls.

By poke-1,170

Paragon (1742)

poke-1,170's picture

13-12-2015, 01:46

:)

By thinlizzy

Champion (262)

thinlizzy's picture

13-12-2015, 01:54

the funny thing is... nobody here cared about the ripped off graphics of Space Manbow 2 Wink

By poke-1,170

Paragon (1742)

poke-1,170's picture

13-12-2015, 03:18

aaaand a case of

Anyway, I checked the youtube video and I was surprised this can be done on the msx. The same goes for that super mario land work in progress. Who would have thought that that can be done. Great job !

By SkyeWelse

Champion (470)

SkyeWelse's picture

13-12-2015, 06:25

I've always been interested in playing both Kai's and Arkhan's games, but I've always been a bit low on cash to be able to order the carts directly. As Arkhan and Aetherbyte is a U.S. based developer and I live in the U.S. I've been especially intrigued by their MSX and TG16 releases.

I'm not sure if my opinion on the issue at hand will matter much, but I felt the need to offer it anyway since I have respect for both developers and this community and I feel that this thread is starting to tarnish that image I've had of all three.

First, I agree with Snout in that it appears that Arkhan may have been talking with some of his peers about coming to this thread and taking out a tommy-gun of youtube clips and screens to illustrate the point he was trying to make. I don't agree with those chat comments about possibly reporting Kai's game to Nintendo and I do think that Arkhan should have done more research if Kai has posted elsewhere about this game being as close as a Metroid as possible and missed the fact that the news announcement was in fact not posted by Kai's group themselves directly. I see it as as Arkhan jumping in head first guns blazing.

But even still, Arkhan and his peers did raise a very good point regarding the tiles being used in Kai's new game and the ethics of doing this. Whether or not someone can bring up other examples of ports and reusage of graphic assets in games, I do personally feel that for original work, the graphics should also be original or at the very least edited to where it's not obvious that they game from another source, which in this case it was very apparent that it looked like it was straight out of Metroid Fusion for me right off the bat.

I agree that the game would serve to be a much stronger game for it to have those tiles changed and I'm glad to see that seems to be the direction that Kai will be taking in order to make the game more original. I wasn't really interested in ordering the game when I saw the Metroid tiles, as it gave me the impression of a cheap Metroid knockoff, instead of an all new original Metroid-style adventure for MSX. That's how I honestly felt when I first saw it, which overshadowed any appreciation I could feel for the other 90% of original content, programming and man-hours slaved away at making the game so far.

So yeah, color me interested and I may think about ordering it one of these days depending on how the final product looks. I'm a huge Metroidvania fan afterall.

As for Arkhan, from what I've gathered from this thread it seems like Arkhan managed to piss some folks off, but I didn't see anything that really made me think he deserved to be banned. I'm hoping that the community admins here will think of lifting this ban for him eventually and move past all of this. I don't think that MRC should ban it's members (especially developers) from participating on the forum or at fairs unless there is due cause. Perhaps if Arkhan and his peers really had reported it to Nintendo, (which wouldn't have been the right thing to do in the least in my opinion) and there was proof that he had done this, I might think differently on the matter.

Still I think Arkhan should be allowed to post here still. After this, he may not even want to anymore, but at least it would be his choice.

Good luck on the final game, Kai!

-Thomas

By mesiasmsx

Prophet (3017)

mesiasmsx's picture

13-12-2015, 14:05

2 Peter 2: 1,18,19
But false prophets also arose among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. ...

By mesiasmsx

Prophet (3017)

mesiasmsx's picture

13-12-2015, 14:08

@poke-1,170: Loooooolll! Great pictures !!!! Nishi Nishi Nishi

By mesiasmsx

Prophet (3017)

mesiasmsx's picture

13-12-2015, 14:10

Should I go on? GuyveR800 is banned here and so are his spoonfed minions. Enjoy your ban.

Running Naked in a Field of Flowers Running Naked in a Field of Flowers Running Naked in a Field of Flowers Running Naked in a Field of Flowers Running Naked in a Field of Flowers Running Naked in a Field of Flowers Running Naked in a Field of Flowers Running Naked in a Field of Flowers

Yeah

By sd_snatcher

Prophet (2390)

sd_snatcher's picture

13-12-2015, 14:15

There's that bar, were you were a regular, and always had a pleasant chat with old friends there. But on that given day, after a nice show, the place becomes a fighting arena for whatever reason. Not a pleasant view at all. That's the feeling right now.

I come here for the peace of mind, the good hobby, and good old friends. It seems that I'll have to wait for things to cool down before I return again.

@Daemos and Kai: you're both doing mazing productions. Please forget about all the nonsense here, wait for things to cool down too, and return another day to this "bar" when we hopefully have a nice constructive chat, without trolls rampaging around. I will love to buy the games you produce, because of their high quality and dedication.

I agree if Snout that, of a million ways to tell something to someone, yelling, finger pointing and name calling will strip the guy of any moral ground on doing so, no matter if his reasons were legit or not.

@Arkhan

You seriously made me and others afraid of publishing more stuff. It seems that we will have to include a README with lot of disclaimers (more than I already actually do) to cover any possible situation that would left ourselves on shaky ground.

By hap

Paragon (2008)

hap's picture

13-12-2015, 16:06

Quote:

the funny thing is... nobody here cared about the ripped off graphics of Space Manbow 2 Wink

I know I did, and have chatted with norakomi about it so that's past-matters to me now. Anyway, I assume you're implying the fact that it was released by TNI?

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5036)

mars2000you's picture

13-12-2015, 16:12

hap wrote:
Quote:

the funny thing is... nobody here cared about the ripped off graphics of Space Manbow 2 Wink

I know I did, and have chatted with norakomi about it so that's past-matters to me now. Anyway, I assume you're implying the fact that it was released by TNI?

Let's not forget the hypocrisy (replacement name and intro screen) behind the MSX2 port of Street Fighter 2, at least Koreans fans have presented it with its real name: http://kpark.co.kr/3020071

By hap

Paragon (2008)

hap's picture

13-12-2015, 16:31

uh, nono, that is a completely different category of unlicensed work than Manbow 2. Except for the stupid title, it is a respectful fan-remake.

By Metalion

Paladin (904)

Metalion's picture

13-12-2015, 18:22

I can't believe the amount of bullshit that fled around that wonderful news of a new MSX2 game ! I am appalled to the lowness of the attacks and their motives (if there was ever one). It is truly disappointing.

We are mostly people around 45 years old, and reading such things, you would believe we are amongst crazed teenagers fighting over a beer or a girl. I simply can't believe it.

Kai Magazine, you have my full support. I don't care if you ripped some graphics from other games. I truly don't care. Making games is a big effort, and it's not like we are doing them professionnally with a team of 20 people. We're a simple hobby, and we make do with what we have, including ripped graphics.

Kudos for your work.

And that user ban is well deserved.
I read every post and was fed up with his constant abuse and rant.
I was wondering when someone would act and ban him.

By msxtrd

Master (171)

msxtrd's picture

13-12-2015, 19:55

OMG how much crap was spilled over all these pages! This must be the way to kill hobbyist developers. I'm just glad each time I see a good MSX game! KAI, keep up the good work and bring us more stuff for our belved MSX computers Smile. Down with trolls and assholes! Evil

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

13-12-2015, 20:32

Thank you for your support and for your empathy, boys!
I am very happy to see that every time more and more msx lovers step up and show their support Smile

Thank you all, really!

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (5755)

ARTRAG's picture

13-12-2015, 21:58

If you have not shipped yet, why not adding PCM sfx (on SCC) ?
Wink

By poke-1,170

Paragon (1742)

poke-1,170's picture

13-12-2015, 22:18

hehe yeah reminded me of those minions of skeletor that always sucked up to him (or cobra commander, or whatever) not having a will of their own except pleasing their evil boss Wink

By raulsantacruz

Champion (446)

raulsantacruz's picture

13-12-2015, 22:52

OMG!!! What a big ball of bullshit in this thread about the new Kai's work. I can't believe really exist this kind of people planning and thinking about how to fuck and sink the other's efforts. There weren't ANY constructive comments or correct matters from them! Really this is a ¡¡shame!!!

Of course, I have reserved my Life of Mars copy weeks ago. We can test it in the Retro Granada event this weekend and the game is great! We were even discussing about how to proud we can feel MSX users about the the large and quality new developments in the scene. After tested it I can say that the price is right. Even more, I know all the time and worries behind this development. I'm sure they doesn't expect this last one stab in their backs. Really are we claiming about re-use graphics? In the past we swallowed PC-88 conversion, spectrum graphics, or even captured ones. To re-use console graphics is the best solution to build a "professional-look" game for and not professional development without need to contract a full-time designer team for a almost-no return investment project. This thread literally almost "kill" all the MSX-scene. Kai never hidden it, because in the spanish forum he explained his project about "a MSX Metroid game" all the time...

Xavi and Oscar, I'm sure that you have full support of the all(sane) MSX community. Forget, the rest.... "They do not exist, those blinded by ambition; those consumed with vengeance..." (warning: the last quotes was "ripped" from Garou - Mark of the Wolves; please don't run to warn SNK lawyers yet :hannibal: )

Thank you for your works!! Keep going!! And of course, you dont need to change the graphics. Don't waste time in change them, because they can always say you ripped "metrovania concept", ambient music from -putyourfavouritethrillermovienamehere- , fonts, etc.

P.S.: My avatar was ripped too! Sorry for it ;)

By boblet

Master (188)

boblet's picture

13-12-2015, 23:41

Hey! Wait a minute

This game reminds me of something.

Some Nintendo™ game I can't quite put the name to.

Oh wait, it's a Super Mario World clone isn't it?

By KdL

Paladin (941)

KdL's picture

14-12-2015, 15:26

I'm pro MSX and in the same way I'm pro KAI Smile

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

14-12-2015, 18:13

Thanks! Big smile

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

14-12-2015, 18:14

Some information for those who purchased "Life on mars" but still do not have a moonsound/opl4 compatible;
Once more I remind everyone that ericb59 can create opl4 cartridges on demmand, and at the lowest price (as far as I know).
He calls them "fm blaster" and I realized when I recomended this opl4 to many "Life on mars" buyers that the name is missleading, and I actually had to make an effort to convince them that this small cartridge is in fact an opl4, not an fm pac.
If you are interested, contact with ericb59 for more details.

By Moniz

Champion (307)

Moniz's picture

14-12-2015, 19:25

wow.. days getting really short.. people spending more time behind their PC.. nothing else to do.. getting bored and starting to do this kind of shit...

Kai: sorry.. I'm a bit tight on budget for MSX right now, if not I would love to buy it..
Daemos: keep going, would love to play mario on my beloved old MSX!

For the frustrated people : Frustration killer
And a good tip: use a towel, much better than spraying your shit on this forum

By DracoFrisco

Expert (83)

DracoFrisco's picture

14-12-2015, 21:09

That will be perfect, I think like you, only the .rom

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

14-12-2015, 21:59

Thank you Moniz, do not worry, we hopefully will make a second batch in the following months, so you will be able to purchase it in the future Smile

Draco Frisco and any other interested; due to the conversation maintained on this thread:
conversation
We propposed a social experiment regarding the release of the game on digital format (.rom)
If we reach a list of 20 potential digital buyers or more, by February 1st, we will ask for the payment then (15 euro), and send the .rom and all related contents in digital format to the buyers.
There is a list of 3 people in this experiment. If you are interested, add your name there, and post the full list. (there or here, I do not care).
Let us see if there are really as many digital buyers as they say (I really doubt we will get to 10 names on that list, but I hope I am wrong)

By MsxKun

Paladin (802)

MsxKun's picture

14-12-2015, 22:54

Kai Magazine wrote:

There is a list of 3 people in this experiment. If you are interested, add your name there, and post the full list. (there or here, I do not care).
Let us see if there are really as many digital buyers as they say (I really doubt we will get to 10 names on that list, but I hope I am wrong)

I can only talk by myself. I don't want a frakkin' rom. I totally prefer the physical cartridge and I hope I can get my hands over it at next RU.

By riquet

Master (145)

riquet's picture

14-12-2015, 23:04

Thanks Kai for your great job, one cartridge for me !

By ren

Hero (632)

ren's picture

14-12-2015, 23:39

Perhaps too much effort (/too little gain), but a demo version might be interesting?

By Meits

Scribe (4158)

Meits's picture

14-12-2015, 23:54

Kai Magazine wrote:

Let us see if there are really as many digital buyers as they say (I really doubt we will get to 10 names on that list, but I hope I am wrong)

I, as a no game player and owner of only functional hardware cartridges, almost feel persuaded to buy the digital version.

Just for the fun of proving you wrong... I'll sleep on it... Can't hurry such huge decisions you see Wink

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

15-12-2015, 00:07

This is one of those situations in which I WANT to be proven wrong Smile

By Meits

Scribe (4158)

Meits's picture

15-12-2015, 00:09

I might even start poking other people to join as well... You have to loose this bet Big smile

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

15-12-2015, 00:11

MsxKun wrote:
Kai Magazine wrote:

There is a list of 3 people in this experiment. If you are interested, add your name there, and post the full list. (there or here, I do not care).
Let us see if there are really as many digital buyers as they say (I really doubt we will get to 10 names on that list, but I hope I am wrong)

I can only talk by myself. I don't want a frakkin' rom. I totally prefer the physical cartridge and I hope I can get my hands over it at next RU.

Hello MsxKun, I see you are from Spain. Shipping from Spain to Spain is very cheap. I just sent you a message to your public email address. If you did not recieve it to said address, please contact me.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

15-12-2015, 00:12

Meits wrote:

I might even start poking other people to join as well... You have to loose this bet Big smile

Please do! Wink

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

15-12-2015, 00:15

ren wrote:

Perhaps too much effort (/too little gain), but a demo version might be interesting?

Yes, it IS indeed too much effort and too little gain (economical gain) but the satisfaction to do it and finish it, if the comunity likes it, has no price.

A demo is a good idea. Once we finish the translation to english, and I replace some tiles we can create a little demo, why not.

By black hawk

Expert (68)

black hawk's picture

15-12-2015, 02:11

Kai Magazine made a great job. The Game looks very nice and what kind of graphics where ripped or not ... that interest me like the weather 10 years ago. I still have a Turbo R St but I dont know if it works or not. That means that you, Kai Magazine, can count on me buying a .rom Version for playing that nice stuff on BlueMSX. I could understand that you want to sell cartridges at first, but after a couple of month ... remember me! Smile

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

15-12-2015, 02:18

Black hawk, there is a list of potential buyers for the digital version of Life on Mars for 15 euro.
It is an experiment generated by the conversation in this link:
conversation and list

The game will only be sold to 20 people in digital format, if the list reaches 20 people before February 1st.
The reasons for this strange experiment are explained in said conversation.
If you are interested, put your name on that list and post the entire list in that conversation, or in this thread, as you wish.

Thank you for your interest :)

By Pablibiris

Paragon (1542)

Pablibiris's picture

15-12-2015, 07:34

Thanks for your great work Kai and Xavi!
99% of the MSX comunity suports you Smile
Dont ear the trolls and continue your great work.
Of course I want a copy of Life on Mars.
Un abrazo Oscar y Xavi

By gdx

Paragon (1416)

gdx's picture

15-12-2015, 08:40

Arkhan,

I understand your frustration of seeing someone afraid by the piratage of his game that is juste a remake of copyrighted game but you must relativize.
Do you know that the MSX has been officially dead since over 20 years?
MSX is animated since only by fans. If you hope to see a totally original and professional game on MSX, you dream awake!

Make a game like pro on MSX is long labor. The users like to see the games that have not or poorly been done on MSX. Of course, the users like too original games but it takes more labor. It pays clearly better to program on a popular machine. Furthermore, the copyright is really possible.

For me all remakes, adaptations or conversions are welcome on MSX!
If they are sold it, go your way but leave buy people which like it.

Your other remarks do not make sense.

By ren

Hero (632)

ren's picture

15-12-2015, 09:20

@Kai I understand you are going ahead with some gfx/tile changes. I do hope you're going ahead with this because it feels for you it is the right/proper thing to do, and not out of, let's say, yielding to fear?
(And these 'fixed' tiles will be in both versions I assume?)

By ren

Hero (632)

ren's picture

15-12-2015, 11:17

@gdx I agree. Arkhan felt this production was a blatant ripoff, and that Kai was a cheapskate for trying to sell a 'new' product with ripped gfx (and, according to Arkhan, trying to hide this fact).

Now I understand Kai never tried to hide the fact these gfx were used. Simply asking some questions before starting accusations helps.
Another point is (pointed out by Kai already) that this news is actually posted by PAC and not Kai himself. So one could say it was not Kai announcing (or 'pitching') his product here.

Whether it's a good thing or not that chatlog is posted, it does seem to make a point / clear things up. Only thing is Kai (and others it seems) got afraid because of things said over there. Syn made some valid points though regarding the chatlog (like not taking it too seriously).

Later snout added some piece of the chat, to show how Arkhan's actions were inspired by Guyvr. I know/understand there's quite some history here, but I didn't see this proven here. Surely it seems Guyvr didn't disapprove, but to me it seems it actually was Arkhan at bat here.

And now for some music <3 ;)


(edit @Kai: hmm.. perhaps I should report you to Bowie / EMI Music.. Can't use this title really.. ;))

By Hrothgar

Champion (477)

Hrothgar's picture

15-12-2015, 12:44

I'm the owner of a barely functional NMS 8220 with no diskdrive. I very much appreciate people still spending time creating things for MSX, and I like to see and play new things. It saddens me to see the many patronizing comments about emulator users. Not everybody appreciates having multiple computers and collecting masses of physical cartridges and the remaining MSX-interested community is too small to belittle and alienate a part of it like that.

A couple of years ago, I downloaded a copy of Manbow2 to evaluate the game. Just as a token of appreciation for the maker, I then went on to actually buy it. Not that I really needed the physical cartridge though, it's only collecting dust somewhere. Also, I guess the real profit margin that went to the maker this way (if any) is smaller than when he would have sold it as a digital copy for half the price.

The € 15 offer is a very commendable and mature step after all the unconstructive comments surrounding this thread. If it can be ordered and paid for by regular SEPA bank transfer, count me in for a copy!

By olonguet

Resident (35)

olonguet's picture

15-12-2015, 15:08

wow. it looks fantastic. I'll be getting one for sure and will have to do a review too Smile (although I don't have a capture card so it might be a while)
shame the discussion went the way it did, but some people went at it the wrong way with regards to tone and underlying intentions. I personally couldn't give a fuck that a couple of tiles were lifted of somewhere else. I see it as a cool homage in fact.
@Kai: is the english version out already ?

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

15-12-2015, 15:33

Kai Magazine wrote:

I'm sorry, but I completely agree with Arkhan on this one. The fact that Konami did steal content too doesn't mean that what you did was right. It only means that you both are guilty. See the Two wrongs make a right fallacy.

I find it very dishonest that you "forgot to mention" that you took the artwork from somewhere else and are trying to make money on this.

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

15-12-2015, 15:35

Grauw wrote:

And yet you think unlicensed ports are different? Uridium was also sold you know. And Archomage. And Sonyc. And Gauntlet. And Jawbreaker.

No, those are bad too. If I see them featured here I'll post my opinion on these as well.

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

15-12-2015, 15:42

Kai Magazine wrote:

I needed to borrow because the game had to be ready for the past barcelona msx reunion.

Excuses.You didn't "need to borrow". You weren't able to create graphics on time? Sucks, but in that case the right thing to do is to release later.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5036)

mars2000you's picture

15-12-2015, 16:10

JaviLM wrote:
Grauw wrote:

And yet you think unlicensed ports are different? Uridium was also sold you know. And Archomage. And Sonyc. And Gauntlet. And Jawbreaker.

No, those are bad too. If I see them featured here I'll post my opinion on these as well.

Please note the answer from tonigalvez (but I guess you don't have yet read the entire thread)

Quote:

We have the rights from Hewson and Graftgold to develope and sell Uridium for MSX. But, aniway, don't let people to ruin your live as a MSX2 developer. Continue your way Kai. We are gonna get more from you than the other that only talk and talk but really do not does anything.

By Daemos

Paragon (1647)

Daemos's picture

15-12-2015, 16:06

I have a mixed opinion on the gfx matter. I feel it strongly depends on the motives of the maker.

1.) The person is making a game and makes no profit from it. The person does it for himself and shares the game with the community. Revenue=0. I don't care. Even if the game is built like a huge puzzle out of everything the maker could find. I don't care. I would pay for the product if the end quality is good knowing I am covering production costs

2.) The person is making a game and makes some revenue 20-100 euro per batch. he can take himself out for the night. good accomplishment. Some reward for the hard work. Still wouldn't mind. He is not making a living, he is just seeing some reward for the things he done himself. If all would be ripped, well shame on you but the coding is still a good job.

3.) The person is making a lot of extra money out of it. 500-2000 euro's Barely acceptable. now we are getting in the reselling zone. While not truly stealing. It is still making money on a few things that weren't done by yourself. If admitted openly and known how much is made on each batch I might consider buying if the product contains minimal amount of ripped gfx and the quality is really good.

4.) the person is seriously making a living out of it. 1000 euro's per batch. Even though people say this cannot happen in MSX land I am sure there are people that can do it. Extra money in the pocket each month counts into this category as well. I would definitely not buy. Now we are talking serious theft and if not openly admitting that there is serious revenue on the ripped gfx I actually get really pissed off!

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

15-12-2015, 16:12

snout wrote:

We probably won't be able to indeed.

Quote:

[21:59] {GuyveR800} "Wow, the styling of this game is really good! Well done!" http://www.msx.org/news/software/en/life-mars-kai-magazine-r... {-- that's what you get when you rip the artwork from Metroid Fusion
[…]

I'm sorry, Sander, but posting this log is a very childish move. Besides, what's said ouside of this forum has absolutely nothing to do with msx.org and is irrelevant to this discussion. I would write something not too different from what's in that IRC log if I was in a forum where honesty is appreciated instead of frowned upon for the benefit of the lowest common denominator. However, I'm posting on msx.org and I'm adhering to your rules even though I don't agree with them.

When I'm not posting here whatever I say is none of your business, in the same way as what's said on IRC isn't either.

snout wrote:

Should I go on? GuyveR800 is banned here and so are his spoonfed minions. Enjoy your ban.

And I think you're wrong regarding this too. Patriek has done (and keeps doing) a lot for the MSX. In my opinion, keeping him banned from here indicates that your egos are more important to you than helping the MSX development community.

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

15-12-2015, 16:21

mars2000you wrote:

Please note the answer from tonigalvez (but I guess you don't have yet read the entire thread)

You're right. I'm replying to messages as I read the thread.

mars2000you wrote:
Quote:

We have the rights from Hewson and Graftgold to develope and sell Uridium for MSX.

Fantastic! And that's how things are done.

By Metalion

Paladin (904)

Metalion's picture

15-12-2015, 16:23

JaviLM wrote:

I'm sorry, but I completely agree with Arkhan on this one.

To agree on a valid argument is one thing, but to abide to the rant and flame war that Arkhan did is another thing. That user was on a mission : an all-out attack (also on a personal level) on what Kai did. No matter the argument, no matter the answer, Kai and his game were the devil and needed to be burnt at the stake.

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

15-12-2015, 16:36

Metalion wrote:
JaviLM wrote:

I'm sorry, but I completely agree with Arkhan on this one.

To agree on a valid argument is one thing, but to abide to the rant and flame war that Arkhan did is another thing. That user was on a mission : an all-out attack (also on a personal level) on what Kai did. No matter the argument, no matter the answer, Kai and his game were the devil and needed to be burnt at the stake.

No. Arkhan didn't start with a rant or a flame war. He pointed in a neutral tone that Kai's artwork is stolen. Kai started making excuses and Arkhan responded also in a neutral tone, and then several people start attacking Arkhan, who in my opinion is in the right.

This was his first message:

Quote:

I liked the graphics in this game better when they were in Metroid Fusion.

[links to material proving his point]

What else was ripped/stolen?

for 39EUR?

I think that might be illegal. The whole "stealing Nintendo's art and charging for it" thing...

[links to Youtube videos]

Can you please point where's the rant and flame war?

This was his second message:

Quote:

I find this response very disingenuous. I don't think you meant to get caught. At least it doesn't seem this way when you're accepting praise from people who don't realize what they're looking at is a plethora of stolen art, so the style is not yours.

You also don't really need to educate me on the cost breakdown of your game. I am aware of the costs of PCBs and chips, printed materials. and the amount of effort involved in creating a game.

What part of the post above is not true?

At around that point in the conversation you have Kai in his habitual drama queen style posting nonsense excuses, and four or five other people attacking Arkhan for having dared to criticize the poor Kai.

Sorry, but I can't blame Arkhan for getting annoyed. Most likely I would have reacted in the same way.

By Metalion

Paladin (904)

Metalion's picture

15-12-2015, 17:00

JaviLM wrote:

He pointed in a neutral tone

Quote:

I liked the graphics in this game better when they were in Metroid Fusion.
What else was ripped/stolen?

If you find this message neutral, then I am clueless.
The strong irony and "read between the lines" attack is quite evident.

JaviLM wrote:

Most likely I would have reacted in the same way.

Actually, that's what you are doing right now.
You kicked again a fire which had calmed down in the last 24 hours.

JavilM, everybody agrees on the fact that some gfx were ripped, whatever the reason.
But the main fact is that the vast majority of this community does not care !
You do not agree with that, that's your right, but learn to live with it.

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

15-12-2015, 17:15

Metalion wrote:
JaviLM wrote:

He pointed in a neutral tone

Quote:

I liked the graphics in this game better when they were in Metroid Fusion.
What else was ripped/stolen?

If you find this message neutral, then I am clueless.
The strong irony and "read between the lines" attack is quite evident.

I'm sorry, but I don't get it. The graphics were indeed ripped from Metroid Fusion. What's the attack?

Metalion wrote:
JaviLM wrote:

Most likely I would have reacted in the same way.

Actually, that's what you are doing right now.
You kicked again a fire which had calmed down in the last 24 hours.

Because I'm reading this now.

Metalion wrote:

JavilM, everybody agrees on the fact that some gfx were ripped, whatever the reason.
But the main fact is that the vast majority of this community does not care !
You do not agree with that, that's your right, but learn to live with it.

I wouldn't care either if he had been honest about it from the beginning. However, he wasn't, and it's not the first time that Kai tries to take credit for artwork taken from other productions.

Praising Kai for stealing graphics would be an insult to the ones who produce quality original content such as Relevo, Nenefranz, and others.

By Meits

Scribe (4158)

Meits's picture

15-12-2015, 17:51

Am I missing something?
Hadn't Kai been open about the origin of the graphics earlier on the spanish forums and was it just not mentioned by the news poster (who is not Kai himself)?
If so, why do I keep on reading that he didn't honest about it from the beginning?

If I'm mixing two things up now, please forgive me (there's too much bullpoop going on already), but if I'm not mixing things up, stop whining about him not being honest from the beginning.

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

15-12-2015, 18:33

Quote:

I'm sorry, Sander, but posting this log is a very childish move. Besides, what's said ouside of this forum has absolutely nothing to do with msx.org and is irrelevant to this discussion.

Normally I would agree and on another day I might have made a different choice, but it's not the first time I've received extensive chat logs where seditious discussions on #msxdev directly related to controversial actions on msx.org. As in this case. I've kept the amount of text I quoted from the long log to a minimum and never before chose to go public with the information I received. I thought it was time people found out what was really going on & has happened a plethora of times in the past.

Quote:

I would write something not too different from what's in that IRC log if I was in a forum where honesty is appreciated instead of frowned upon for the benefit of the lowest common denominator. However, I'm posting on msx.org and I'm adhering to your rules even though I don't agree with them.

I don't see where we frown upon honesty, but we do frown upon trolling behaviour. A pile of moderator alerts is usually a good indication something is at hand. I've pointed out in previous posts in this topic that there are many ways to make a point, all we ask is to not do it in a way that is bound to cause friction. And when you notice you've caused some friction, don't turn up the heat.

Quote:
snout wrote:

Should I go on? GuyveR800 is banned here and so are his spoonfed minions. Enjoy your ban.

And I think you're wrong regarding this too. Patriek has done (and keeps doing) a lot for the MSX. In my opinion, keeping him banned from here indicates that your egos are more important to you than helping the MSX development community.

The doors have been open for him many times - under his known names and alter ego's - and each and every time the result was the same: an amazing amount of friction between him and other users, sooner or later spiralling out of control. I feel little reason to try that experiment again.

Then again, it appears you have some beef with Kai Magazine (like I won't deny I have with G), but manage to voice it in a way that doesn't result in a pile of moderator alerts. At its very core, this is all about common etiquette. Just because PAC didn't mention the origin of the graphics in the newspost doesn't mean Kai was (deliberately) dishonest about it.

By flyguille

Prophet (3025)

flyguille's picture

15-12-2015, 18:51

snout wrote:
Quote:

I'm sorry, Sander, but posting this log is a very childish move. Besides, what's said ouside of this forum has absolutely nothing to do with msx.org and is irrelevant to this discussion.

Normally I would agree and on another day I might have made a different choice, but it's not the first time I've received extensive chat logs where seditious discussions on #msxdev directly related to controversial actions on msx.org. As in this case. I've kept the amount of text I quoted from the long log to a minimum and never before chose to go public with the information I received. I thought it was time people found out what was really going on & has happened a plethora of times in the past.

Quote:

I would write something not too different from what's in that IRC log if I was in a forum where honesty is appreciated instead of frowned upon for the benefit of the lowest common denominator. However, I'm posting on msx.org and I'm adhering to your rules even though I don't agree with them.

I don't see where we frown upon honesty, but we do frown upon trolling behaviour. A pile of moderator alerts is usually a good indication something is at hand. I've pointed out in previous posts in this topic that there are many ways to make a point, all we ask is to not do it in a way that is bound to cause friction. And when you notice you've caused some friction, don't turn up the heat.

Quote:
snout wrote:

Should I go on? GuyveR800 is banned here and so are his spoonfed minions. Enjoy your ban.

And I think you're wrong regarding this too. Patriek has done (and keeps doing) a lot for the MSX. In my opinion, keeping him banned from here indicates that your egos are more important to you than helping the MSX development community.

The doors have been open for him many times - under his known names and alter ego's - and each and every time the result was the same: an amazing amount of friction between him and other users, sooner or later spiralling out of control. I feel little reason to try that experiment again.

Then again, it appears you have some beef with Kai Magazine (like I won't deny I have with G), but manage to voice it in a way that doesn't result in a pile of moderator alerts. At its very core, this is all about common etiquette. Just because PAC didn't mention the origin of the graphics in the newspost doesn't mean Kai was (deliberately) dishonest about it.

Patriek is banned because MRC is too small to fit the egos of both: Patriek and MRC's admins at the same time.

When a place is too small and it is full of wizards, friction is inevitable, because each wizard has the right to think its own way.

And with "small" I mean, "too few things going on in the scene" at the same time.

By snout

Ambassador (15167)

snout's picture

15-12-2015, 19:03

Quote:

Patriek is banned because MRC is too small to fit the egos of both: Patriek and MRC's admins at the same time.

Personally I don't feel this way and I honestly feel that we gave Patriek plenty of chances. The way he interacted with other community members was often the reason to step in.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5036)

mars2000you's picture

15-12-2015, 19:09

flyguille wrote:

Patriek is banned because MRC is too small to fit the egos of both: Patriek and MRC's admins at the same time.

When a place is too small and it is full of wizards, friction is inevitable, because each wizard has the right to think its own way.

And with "small" I mean, "too few things going on in the scene" at the same time.

There is a psychological problem, but it's only the most visible sign of two different (and incompatible) visions of what must be a good active MSX community. If Patriek should be the main Admin here on MRC, many visitors should be banned after only a few posts that are in obvious contradiction with G's opinion and vision. And many other visitorrs should no more visit the site, because the atmosphere should have become unbreathable.

By poke-1,170

Paragon (1742)

poke-1,170's picture

15-12-2015, 19:25

I think he's banned because he's acted like a dick here more than once? If I ran a forum, I sure as hell would kick anyone out who doesn't have the social competencies to interact with other fellow beings on a normal and respectful level. Then again I would probably not have the energy to run a forum that sometimes seems like an elementary school in the first place.

By poke-1,170

Paragon (1742)

poke-1,170's picture

15-12-2015, 19:24

There, you said it. In order to maintain a healthy community you have to set rules. Plenty of respectable newssites and fora have those, including our newssite nu.nl which has options to say if comments on the fora are hateful,discriminating,fueling flamewars etc.

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

15-12-2015, 19:25

snout wrote:

Normally I would agree and on another day I might have made a different choice, but it's not the first time I've received extensive chat logs where seditious discussions on #msxdev...

Interesting choice of words.

snout wrote:

I don't see where we frown upon honesty, but we do frown upon trolling behaviour.

Pointing out something that is true isn't trolling, and the conversation got heated not because of Arkhan's criticism, but because of the way Kai refused to accept responsibility and acted as the victim. It didn't help either that you refused to see this situation and admonished Arkhan, but not Kai nor the others who jumped to Arkhan's neck.

Do not confuse criticism with trolling. Arkhan's criticism was justified.

snout wrote:

Just because PAC didn't mention the origin of the graphics in the newspost doesn't mean Kai was (deliberately) dishonest about it.

But making excuses after it's being pointed is. Kai should have admitted the fact that he indeed ripped the graphics from Metroid, instead of using red herrings such as having spent 1000 hours of development or asserting that 90% of the content is original, when it's obvious that it's not.

By boblet

Master (188)

boblet's picture

15-12-2015, 19:30

Seditious?

Are you seriously using that word? Are you actual royalty or something?

Snout, as I'm obviously another one of guyver's myriad programmed slave minions which are incapable of independent thought, I think perhaps you could save us some effort by just banning me now too, it would ultimately prevent me from making some... pointless posts, after all:

Quote:

Should I go on? GuyveR800 is banned here and so are his spoonfed minions. Enjoy your ban.

You probably shouldn't go on, it's not going to make anything better, and honestly, I feel like a line got crossed somewhere, I couldn't quite pin down where, but it really feels like that it's buried under a seething morass of exceedingly bad vibes, and that's a shame.

Running Naked in a Field of Flowers

I have to go now, master wants his spoon back.
Tongue

By flyguille

Prophet (3025)

flyguille's picture

15-12-2015, 19:40

MRC's administration is not impartial, I have personally suffered discrimination here about the news releases that are really posted, ignoring the rest.

By example, there is WIP (work in progress) news for .... each little improvements for that ZIP utility?, or WIP for this games, so WIP is allowed?, ok.... and a news about v0.97 to v0.98 update is allowed? ok...

But my news submits didn´t come out since the year 2014, and some of them for some milestones has been reached.

And is not that it is a huge activity that was needed to reduce the news post ammount.... no, it is a quite quiet scene. So, nosense. I don't finds an explanation. So, feels discriminated one and again and again.

So, I feel MRC is so impartial about news submits, and if I as developer feel it impartial, why it is not impartial about moderating the forums?, it is the same ppl behind. Sure, MRC's administration is not right always.

And not, I am not a minion of GuyveR800, I feels myself independent, but sometimes visits the irc channel. MRC dissapointme sometimes, but I am not dissapointed of be part of MSX, so that keep me going on.

By Hydragon

Champion (489)

Hydragon's picture

15-12-2015, 19:57

First we gonna post chatlogs, now we get deeper into issues related to privacy so let's start real names. What the freck is wrong with you guys?
Like I said in earlier comments, childish move about the logs ( anyhow it is just some text, could also be tampered with ), but using real names now is new lowblow.

Typical part is, that everyone is falling for it, like ow wow a piece of text, in which they behave bad. Now we really know how and what a person is.
Have you met the guy in person, nope but I saw a chatlog, so that person is bad. Welcome to the interwebz.

Everyone in #msxdev and nothing good comes out of it, don't mind me to prove the ones saying this bullcrap wrong.
A few years back I met the guy behind Z80St-Software in ... yesh : #MSXDEV
Helped him with the game QBIQS. Or are you guys now pointing out that wasn't a game, it is not development related?

Everyone is saying all people in #msxdev are brainwashed minions / lapdogs of someone, well here is some news, it is one of the few chatrooms in which actually something is going on considering development.
Since it is an active chatroom, I even added a webchat on my website ( www.cheatmsx.com ) so people can actually join the room.

And if we gonna bring old stuff up, a few years some members of this MRC crew, asked me for a talk, to give my website a special corner on this website.
Sorry snout, but with this childish behaviour, like backstabbing people, who aren't even able to reply and the way you go around with someone's privacy is a really bad thing.
The day cheatmsx will come to MRC is never ever gonna happen.

By ren

Hero (632)

ren's picture

15-12-2015, 20:01

poke-1,170 wrote:

[...] Then again I would probably not have the energy to run a forum that sometimes seems like an elementary school in the first place.

haha.. :)
(no disrespect mrc people/admins.. ;))
(will perhaps post something more constructive later ;))

By snout

Ambassador (15167)

snout's picture

15-12-2015, 20:01

Hmm, so seditious is an interesting choice of words and disingenuous isn't? Sue me for using a dictionary.

Pointing out the truth can be trolling if you do it in the form of accusations and loaded questions. "What else did you steal?" is pretty close to the classic loaded question of them all: "Have you stopped beating your wife?". Metroid is a pretty well known game and I find it laughable to think there was an evil intention to say those graphics were self-designed and get away with it. Just a "Hey, I recognize these graphics from this game" would have been enough.

@flyguille - we have a hard time keeping the news flow going for quite a while already. Your news submits are sometimes very unclear, do not contain links or concrete information on what actually is the news, which makes it tempting to post about something more simple first. We have quite a backlog of news, currently, and yes indeed - one of your submits is in there as well. Apologies for the delay, but please don't assume anything behind it other than lack of time and motivation on our side.

By Grauw

Enlighted (5626)

Grauw's picture

15-12-2015, 20:29

flyguille wrote:

MRC's administration is not impartial, I have personally suffered discrimination here about the news releases that are really posted, ignoring the rest.

By example, there is WIP (work in progress) news for .... each little improvements for that ZIP utility?, or WIP for this games, so WIP is allowed?, ok.... and a news about v0.97 to v0.98 update is allowed? ok...

It’s because I submitted the news post for “that zip utility” (I assume you mean gunzip) in a way that it’s ready to be placed on the front page; written in 3rd person, interesting content, good english, relevant link at the bottom. 0 effort from the msx.org staff was required.

If a news submission needs a lot of editorial work, it can take much longer, because the msx.org staff doesn’t have a lot of time to write and edit newsposts so it stays in the queue. This has nothing to do with being discriminatory. If you take care to write a good newspost, it’ll be up in no-time.

For the same reason the SofaUnzip 1.0 newspost was delayed by 3 weeks even though it was released on the same day as Gunzip 1.1. This does not mean the MRC staff hates Louthrax, it just means that the effort was postponed, because the admins are normal people with normal lives who sometimes procrastinate on chores.

Back to gunzip, the releases were accompanied by a lot of forum discussion and community collaboration, and sparked several spin-off projects, so I would hope it was relevant news to the community. There were just two newsposts by the way, so “a newspost for every little improvement” is a bit uh… I’m sorry you didn’t like my project? Smile (tongue in cheek)

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

15-12-2015, 20:11

JaviLM wrote:
snout wrote:

We probably won't be able to indeed.

Quote:

[21:59] {GuyveR800} "Wow, the styling of this game is really good! Well done!" http://www.msx.org/news/software/en/life-mars-kai-magazine-r... {-- that's what you get when you rip the artwork from Metroid Fusion
[…]

I'm sorry, Sander, but posting this log is a very childish move. Besides, what's said ouside of this forum has absolutely nothing to do with msx.org and is irrelevant to this discussion. I would write something not too different from what's in that IRC log if I was in a forum where honesty is appreciated instead of frowned upon for the benefit of the lowest common denominator. However, I'm posting on msx.org and I'm adhering to your rules even though I don't agree with them.

When I'm not posting here whatever I say is none of your business, in the same way as what's said on IRC isn't either.

No way. Sadly, it seems that there is sub-community that aims to create a bad atmosphere within the MSX or anything that smells of MRC, something difficult to understand nowadays, that's the real childish move and no other. Publishing that chatlog simply made that clear, now people know who they are and what are their true intentions, in my opinion, its publication it's completely justified. And yes, to me it's a shame that a very skilled MSX users like some of them prefer to follow that path.

By valkyre

Champion (305)

valkyre's picture

15-12-2015, 20:12

Bored.

By poke-1,170

Paragon (1742)

poke-1,170's picture

15-12-2015, 20:14

order life on mars ? Wink

By flyguille

Prophet (3025)

flyguille's picture

15-12-2015, 20:16

Hydragon wrote:

First we gonna post chatlogs, now we get deeper into issues related to privacy so let's start real names. What the freck is wrong with you guys?
Like I said in earlier comments, childish move about the logs ( anyhow it is just some text, could also be tampered with ), but using real names now is new lowblow.

Typical part is, that everyone is falling for it, like ow wow a piece of text, in which they behave bad. Now we really know how and what a person is.
Have you met the guy in person, nope but I saw a chatlog, so that person is bad. Welcome to the interwebz.

Everyone in #msxdev and nothing good comes out of it, don't mind me to prove the ones saying this bullcrap wrong.
A few years back I met the guy behind Z80St-Software in ... yesh : #MSXDEV
Helped him with the game QBIQS. Or are you guys now pointing out that wasn't a game, it is not development related?

Everyone is saying all people in #msxdev are brainwashed minions / lapdogs of someone, well here is some news, it is one of the few chatrooms in which actually something is going on considering development.
Since it is an active chatroom, I even added a webchat on my website ( www.cheatmsx.com ) so people can actually join the room.

And if we gonna bring old stuff up, a few years some members of this MRC crew, asked me for a talk, to give my website a special corner on this website.
Sorry snout, but with this childish behaviour, like backstabbing people, who aren't even able to reply and the way you go around with someone's privacy is a really bad thing.
The day cheatmsx will come to MRC is never ever gonna happen.

Well, My experience with #MsxDev, is that if I asks something in a new forum thread at MRC, can pass as fast as two days for anybody to reply it, with an answer?, no, just a nosense reply, maybe a week or too week to somebody come in with a smart answer.

So, I join #MsxDev and as fast I get a good answer in minutes, and but sometimes everybody is AFK and can take it as two or three hours.

And I started joining , this year I joined like 10 to 20 times already in the whole year. In 2014 the same, from 2008 to 2013 I did a pause, before was more active, but real life... you know.

Anyway, I thinks it is a good channel for solving problems, and it seems to be 20 times more DEV activity there than in MRC, but "there" is not a website, just IRC, it is not a window to show things to the comunity, so MRC is more aiming to show things, than to help developing and so.

Now, that one joining #MsxDev , to be "brainwashed minion" that is too far from reality, overall for smart ppl, where you know, smart ppl are not suitable to be brainwashed, because everyone has its own opinion based on what them saw or ear. And as MRC is public domain, everybody know what the "two bells" was.

By snout

Ambassador (15167)

snout's picture

15-12-2015, 20:17

On privacy: I don't think the names mentioned in this topic are in any way damaging privacy. Both GuyveR and I have been working under our real names, our nicknames and mixes of that so it's abundantly clear who=who. To make a big deal about that privacy, right here, right now, is just trying to find something to throw with.

By snout

Ambassador (15167)

snout's picture

15-12-2015, 20:25

@flyguille - I'm not saying #msxdev has no purpose or only serves as an anti-MRC platform. If it's a good place for you to progress your development that's just great. Others might have different experiences there. I kind of was part of the birth of #msxdev and have seen GuyveR's kickban actions up close, understanding in retrospect why they did not want him to become an op at #msx.

Either way, what I am saying is that #msxdev has repeatedly served as a platform for initiating or coordinating actions against MRC, crew members or specific individuals. As in this case.

By flyguille

Prophet (3025)

flyguille's picture

15-12-2015, 20:31

snout wrote:

Hmm, so seditious is an interesting choice of words and disingenuous isn't? Sue me for using a dictionary.

Pointing out the truth can be trolling if you do it in the form of accusations and loaded questions. "What else did you steal?" is pretty close to the classic loaded question of them all: "Have you stopped beating your wife?". Metroid is a pretty well known game and I find it laughable to think there was an evil intention to say those graphics were self-designed and get away with it. Just a "Hey, I recognize these graphics from this game" would have been enough.

@flyguille - we have a hard time keeping the news flow going for quite a while already. Your news submits are sometimes very unclear, do not contain links or concrete information on what actually is the news, which makes it tempting to post about something more simple first. We have quite a backlog of news, currently, and yes indeed - one of your submits is in there as well. Apologies for the delay, but please don't assume anything behind it other than lack of time and motivation on our side.

Oh, sorry, you did understand my claim here, right? so my english is not that bad, right?, so why not process that newspost?, IIRC I did two or three news submits just plain ignored, and yes, maybe one was without link my mistake, but there was a forum thread from were to pick up the link, so, anybody didn't process it in A whole year?, I am not talking about weeks, a whole year, were ignored my last two or three. Ok, I hardly can write in 3rd. person english, but, I see it as very understable as to qualify it as "unclear", it is not fair.

By Grauw

Enlighted (5626)

Grauw's picture

15-12-2015, 21:58

Flyguille: nobody here has anything against you, you’re a great guy with interesting past and present projects.

News posts have been a bit of a mess for some time, because they require active staff and editorial work (I called them “chores” for a reason), and when motivation is lacking delays arise, and sometimes something may be so much after the fact that perhaps the news is dropped (idk, just that’s what I think may have happened). Either way, it’s a known problem that’s got nothing to do with you personally, I hope the SofaUnzip example I gave showed that. As I said, the best way to avoid it is to do the work for them.

p.s. If you ever have programming topics, I’m happy to think along, I like those kind of threads Smile.

By snout

Ambassador (15167)

snout's picture

15-12-2015, 20:45

@flyguille it's only human nature to go for "low hanging fruit" first, to do the things that are simple and easy before you do things that take more effort. I do apologize your news submits have been overlooked for so long, but it's definitely not the only news topic/download/feature/bugfix we left lying around for far too long. Heck, even the newly discovered turboR and MSX appearing in MGS5 haven't been published. Yet.

By flyguille

Prophet (3025)

flyguille's picture

15-12-2015, 20:45

snout wrote:

@flyguille - I'm not saying #msxdev has no purpose or only serves as an anti-MRC platform. If it's a good place for you to progress your development that's just great. Others might have different experiences there. I kind of was part of the birth of #msxdev and have seen GuyveR's kickban actions up close, understanding in retrospect why they did not want him to become an op at #msx.

Either way, what I am saying is that #msxdev has repeatedly served as a platform for initiating or coordinating actions against MRC, crew members or specific individuals. As in this case.

Oh, comeon, he isn't hittler, he don't has that power as "coordinate... blah blah blah".

If someone else is going do anything it is in his own mind, guyver don't brainwashed anybody. You are overestimating him a lot.

And yes, sometime there is a newbie asking a dumb question that can be solve in 30 secons googling, and nobody is willing to answer it, it that guy insist.....a kick is the rule, happened to me too, and I then understand that was a dumb question for that channel, I accepted and continue with the 30 seconds of google, and come back with a smarter question.

So if other guy just saw the kick, and get angry, well, maybe other place is more suitable for that guy.

I am not saying that a irc-kick is a good way to shut up somebody, because maybe who is kicked (not banned), don't finally understand why, and that is nothing personal. And the the guy go other place, and blah blah blah against that channel or its admins. Maybe he must change to ve VOICED only, and REGISTERED nick only, so who +V can talk, don't like, -V, advice on PRIV that is a dumb question repeating the same dumb question don't helps..., it is better. But well, each admins has its own of handling it.

By Grauw

Enlighted (5626)

Grauw's picture

15-12-2015, 20:47

flyguille wrote:

But well, each admins has its own of handling it.

So. Same applies to msx.org.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

15-12-2015, 21:02

Hrothgar wrote:

I'm the owner of a barely functional NMS 8220 with no diskdrive. I very much appreciate people still spending time creating things for MSX, and I like to see and play new things. It saddens me to see the many patronizing comments about emulator users. Not everybody appreciates having multiple computers and collecting masses of physical cartridges and the remaining MSX-interested community is too small to belittle and alienate a part of it like that.

A couple of years ago, I downloaded a copy of Manbow2 to evaluate the game. Just as a token of appreciation for the maker, I then went on to actually buy it. Not that I really needed the physical cartridge though, it's only collecting dust somewhere. Also, I guess the real profit margin that went to the maker this way (if any) is smaller than when he would have sold it as a digital copy for half the price.

The € 15 offer is a very commendable and mature step after all the unconstructive comments surrounding this thread. If it can be ordered and paid for by regular SEPA bank transfer, count me in for a copy!

Thank you,we accept bank transfer, you are included in the list.
Thanks for your support!

By snout

Ambassador (15167)

snout's picture

15-12-2015, 21:04

The post of Kai seems like a good moment to steer this topic back on-topic. I think just about everything has been said. If after counting to 10 you still feel the irresistable urge to say anything about this topic, please start a topic in the forum or something.

So under this line only comments regarding Life on Mars (the game), offtopics will be deleted.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By The_Engineer

Master (139)

The_Engineer's picture

15-12-2015, 21:44

Really impressive game for MSX2. Kai is really the X-basic Specialist.
Hope to see a play-through on YouTube any time soon!

By Grauw

Enlighted (5626)

Grauw's picture

15-12-2015, 21:46

The digital edition reached the 20 pledges in the other thread Smile.

By MsxKun

Paladin (802)

MsxKun's picture

15-12-2015, 22:36

Kai Magazine wrote:
MsxKun wrote:

I can only talk by myself. I don't want a frakkin' rom. I totally prefer the physical cartridge and I hope I can get my hands over it at next RU.

Hello MsxKun, I see you are from Spain. Shipping from Spain to Spain is very cheap. I just sent you a message to your public email address. If you did not recieve it to said address, please contact me.

That's too cold Tongue I'm there on every RU, moving the tables and so.. Hannibal The fun of it is to be there, see people, show stuff, get stuff...

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

15-12-2015, 22:40

Totally understandable.
Looking forward to see you there!

By syn

Paragon (1528)

syn's picture

15-12-2015, 23:44

Kai, in my eyes, the ripping issue is solved. You have my full support with the game, especially since you promised to change the graphics to original. And if I like the end result, I will most definitely buy it.

For those who are interested, I wrote a very long post after Snout's line at 21:04 about the whole #msxdev issue. Since it was deleted and I still felt I had some things I needed to say, I posted it in a topic here

By Lazzeri

Master (162)

Lazzeri's picture

16-12-2015, 00:24

SH*T MAN! Just send me a copy. Smile

Amazing, AMAZING work. Congrats.

By SLotman

Paragon (1188)

SLotman's picture

16-12-2015, 04:59

Kai,

Don't feel discouraged by those posts. Your game is INCREDIBLE, and what you did on MSX is AMAZING.

And I couldn't care less about the ripped gfx. Rip it all, call it Metroid-MSX... what I care is to see something as well done as this release.

And I'd like to ask you to please consider selling a digital version. Shipping costs here to Brazil are always high, we usually ended up being taxed by the government, and the handling by the postal offices are really awful here.

By tonigalvez

Champion (278)

tonigalvez's picture

16-12-2015, 09:30

SLotman wrote:

Kai,

Don't feel discouraged by those posts. Your game is INCREDIBLE, and what you did on MSX is AMAZING.

And I couldn't care less about the ripped gfx. Rip it all, call it Metroid-MSX... what I care is to see something as well done as this release.

And I'd like to ask you to please consider selling a digital version. Shipping costs here to Brazil are always high, we usually ended up being taxed by the government, and the handling by the postal offices are really awful here.

Maybe is possible to flash the game on carts in Brazil (only the ones to sell there). And maybe someone ofers to translate to portugese language.

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

16-12-2015, 11:09

My humble opinion regarding this thread.

Ripped graphics: To be honest, when I saw the video I immediately saw that the graphic style was too similar to Metroids. I am sure that everybody noticed that and if I remember correctly the game was announced as a Metroidvania game. So, to begin, having a Metroid-like graphic style is more than acceptable for a game that, needless to say, follows the Metroidvania style. I also assumed that some graphics were heavily based on some of the Metroid titles, probably slightly modified tiles. This could be acceptable if the game was a port or the authors clearly stated the fact instead of tacitly taking credit for them. Not because licensing, but because of honesty. What was completely unacceptable was ripping graphics in a game that is being sold. I'd better don't say what happens in my job if plagiarism is detected... Anyway, Kai promised to remove ripped graphics so: point for him. However, I cannot understand why the author said he used ripped graphics because of deadlines and now he can change the graphics within a more than reasonable deadline...

Game quality: First thing to say: I have not played the game, I have only seen it on youtube. Said that, the game seems a nice demonstration of what can be done using XBasic: eye-catching graphics, extensive use of third-party music replayers, reasonably good motion, probably too heavy memory requirements. So, roughly speaking, it is the kind of games most of us did back in the 90's but with modern graphic style and more polished. But it does not give me the professional feeling that other recent games give to me. For example, the amount of agents (player, bullets, enemies, ...) moving on screen is very limited (XBasic fault, of course). The player animation is strange (that may be my subjective opinion). The graphic style is slightly unbalanced (for example, the explosions do not fit in the game style). Why I am saying that? Because I cannot believe people comparing it to other recent games in the way they are doing. I think somebody compared it to the ongoing Super Mario World port (which I have seen only on youtube). That game (SMW) seems, technically and in style, far superior. The same applies to other recent games. Booming Boy is technically superior by far. I would say that even the self-defined small Ninja Savior requires more programming skills. So: in my opinion, Life on Mars may not be a bad game but, please, stop saying it is comparable to other games. Otherwise, people with the skills to really take profit of the MSX capabilities will not see the need to do a good job.

Digital sales: I really hope that everybody in the list finally purchases the item and, actually, I think that everybody in the list will pay. But let's hope that this will continue, that this is not only a "let's show anti-digital they were wrong" tantrum.

{mod: removed off-topic section on banning. there's another topic for that now. no refund on cents!! Wink}

These are my two cents. I have been long time almost inactive in the community and... well... it seems I am sort of coming back to "make friends" ;-)

By Grauw

Enlighted (5626)

Grauw's picture

16-12-2015, 12:12

Setzer wrote:

Otherwise, people with the skills to really take profit of the MSX capabilities will not see the need to do a good job.

I don’t think that’s the case, at least personally I don’t have such feeling. Yes I know it could be done more advanced in assembly, but within the constraints of XBasic I think it’s a great job and as a developer I can appreciate that. Also XBasic has a great advantage in terms of development speed, an assembly version of this game may have never been finished or take twice as long, so it’s a matter of making a trade-off.

I mean the game was compared to Akin and of course it’s nearly impossible to compare anything to that game because it is technically way out of the league of nearly everything, but yet I can see the similarities.

As long as the gameplay is fun and interesting, that’s all that matters, and I’m curious to see what comes beyond the initial part shown in the video, with the ability powerups (higher jump), etc. And where the story will go.

By Setzer

Supporter (7)

Setzer's picture

16-12-2015, 13:25

Grauw wrote:

I don’t think that’s the case, at least personally I don’t have such feeling. Yes I know it could be done more advanced in assembly, but within the constraints of XBasic I think it’s a great job and as a developer I can appreciate that.

Partially agree. As you said, the game has to be praised "within the constraints of XBasic". But that is not what I see in this thread. Most comments praise "Live on Mars" within the global context of MSX games, not within the context of XBasic-coded games. Also, even in the context of XBasic games, I don't think it deserves so much appreciation. I cannot see what makes the game so special... unless there are more videos available that I have not seen. What is so special? Graphics... not bad, but with some flaws and basically not original (not necessarily a rip, but undeniably not original). Playability? Don't know, but it seems that one or two re-spawning enemies maximum per screen is rather limited. Music? I have only heard nice background sounds, not actual music, and the sounds are nice because of the OPL4 stuff and a replayer that, I assume, has not been developed by Kai Magazine. The sum of all? I don't know, because the game has not been released, but that means that nobody knows.

I am sure that Kai Magazine spent lots of hours doing the game but that does not mean it is a good game. I may spend tons of hours painting a portrait but I guarantee the result would be a disaster Tongue

Grauw wrote:

Also XBasic has a great advantage in terms of development speed, an assembly version of this game may have never been finished or take twice as long, so it’s a matter of making a trade-off.

Again, partially agree. Somebody (I think it was Axel) pointed a problem of many programmers: getting stuck coding a certain routine until perfection is achieved and, as perfection never arrives, the game is never finished. So, if somebody tries to do a similar game in assembly but adding pixel scrolling and line interrupt effects, the game would probably never be finished. But doing the same game, without adding strange extras, in assembler would not require that much, it could have been finished in almost the same amount of time and it would allow much more enemies, better motion and require less memory.

Just a couple of examples. I remember an MSX Dev game, "Zombie Incident", that was also a platformer. The game was finished and is far superior to Life on Mars. The same applies to "Caos Begins" or "The Cure". And I am sure that some of these games were coded by complete newbies. So, a game like Life on Mars can be coded and finished in assembler. XBasic seems just an excuse to release a low quality game as faster as possible.

Anyhow, as a developer, Kai Magazine is, of course, free to do a game like this. The problem I see is praising it and comparing it to other games that really are good and that require much more technical skills and time. The most unfortunate comparison I have seen is with Super Mario World, which has much more technical and artistic difficulties than Life on Mars.

Grauw wrote:

As long as the gameplay is fun and interesting, that’s all that matters, and I’m curious to see what comes beyond the initial part shown in the video, with the ability powerups (higher jump), etc. And where the story will go.

Yes. Gameplay is the most important aspect of a game. Let's hope that Life on Mars is playable.

By Grauw

Enlighted (5626)

Grauw's picture

16-12-2015, 16:18

Isn’t praise a personal choice? Smile I’m pretty impressed, knowing it’s written in Basic-kun I’m even more impressed. When I look at the video I’m thinking it seems pretty fun, I don’t feel it needs more enemies on screen, it’d get crowded. Contra doesn’t have that many enemies on screen either. Seems pretty comparable to Contra actually, now that I think about it.

Parts I’m impressed by are the full screen scroll effects and multilayer in the sequence where you walk into the building. It can be pretty tedious to write special routines for just an individual screen in assembly. As-in it requires relatively much time to make each of them, an assembly project usually will try to limit those occasions and the screens would be more same-ish, whereas it seems quicker to make in Basic-kun so one would sooner do that.

You can feel differently of course, but... to say it’s a problem that other people have a different opinion and praise the game... Different things are important for different people. You seem to prefer a lot of action and smooth movement, but for me it’s not super important (MG2 comes to mind... could be done in Basic-kun Smile), exploration, progression and story is more interesting.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

16-12-2015, 17:29

Perhaps I should clarify that while many smoother mentioned games use hardware sprites, which are much faster but have serious color and horizontal line limitations, Life on Mars use software sprites (copys) which are slower (not because turbo basic, but because it takes a lot more of work for the vdp to move them, and coding as well, and the vdp works at the same speed on asm and Turbo Basic)
Software sprites requiere a buffer for the background, and a double buffer to show the sprites while in another page the previous sprites are erased by restoring the background, and the new sprites are copied to the new coordenates or with the new frame, which esentially is more "technically" advanced than the "put sprite" command or its equivalent on ASM.
While software sprites are a lot slower (I repeat, due to vdp work, not because turbo basic coding) have other advantadges:
They can be any size and contain up to 15 colors per line without any restriction, and there can be as many in the same horizontal line as you want.
If you guys know about hardware sprites limitations, you should know it is just impossible to show this many sprites with so many colors at the same time, using hardware sprites.
I went for visual quality while mantaining a reasonable speed.

If I ever use hardware sprites on my future games you can be sure those will be as smooth as any other game using hardware sprites.
I belive it is very important to understand this distinction.
Some might think other games are more technically advanced because those are smoother, or because those are simply coded using ASM.
ok, that is one opinion.
Let's review my current game engine for a moment, and see its features:
-software sprites without color, size or line limitations
-4 character sprites simultaneusly of 16 x 32 x 16 full frames each
-4 simultaneous bullets or explosions(bullets have 5 colors, explosions use up to 7 colors, and have a sie of 32x32, and 8 frames
-Full optimization for z80 or r800
-frameskipping
-fmpac, music module, moonsound support
-sampled sound effects for moonsound
-smooth multiple scroll
-huge maps
-restoration of backgrounds after breackable tiles disappear
-non reespawning of special power ups even after leaving the map
-different items which will change the gameplay radically (wait until you get the bombs and you start destroying eveything!)
-different artificial inteligence for each different enemy
and several other things I cannot remember at the moment

Those are quite a lot of features. I cannot talk about other games though.

Regarding the gameplay, you inmediatelly will feel tthe controls and response are quite similar to Treasure of usas.
As a matter of fact there is not much that needs to be changed to make an USAS2 for example, with better sprites (more colors) and same gameplay.

After knowing this perhaps some of you can reevaluate your opinions.

Regarding Super mario world, I absolutelly agree it is far more superior (by a lot) and I still cannot belive my eyes when I see the videos.
Please let me respectfully point out that SMW engine is ideal for that kind of game, and it would be amazing to make a port or similar of metroid 1 nes version, with slightly better graphics and much better colors, but since that engine is using screen 4 tiles and hardware sprites, it could not show Life on mars graphics.
It is a matter of choice, regarding the kind of game and the admosphere you want to create.

By Setzer

Supporter (7)

Setzer's picture

16-12-2015, 17:33

Grauw wrote:

I’m pretty impressed, knowing it’s written in Basic-kun I’m even more impressed. When I look at the video I’m thinking it seems pretty fun, I don’t feel it needs more enemies on screen, it’d get crowded. Contra doesn’t have that many enemies on screen either. Seems pretty comparable to Contra actually, now that I think about it.

Again, the game may seem impressive (though I don't think so) when compared to other Basic-Kun games, but that's not the point. I don't see in the thread people claiming this. What I see is people stating that the game is impressive when compared to games, in general. And now you are doing the same comparing it to Contra. Contra is not one of my favourite games, especially from the technical point of view. But, even in this case, both games cannot be compared. Just take a look at Contra. Few enemies, but with many different behaviors and tons of bullets simultaneously. Lot of action everywhere. Light years away from Live on Mars.

Grauw wrote:

Parts I’m impressed by are the full screen scroll effects and multilayer in the sequence where you walk into the building. It can be pretty tedious to write special routines for just an individual screen in assembly. As-in it requires relatively much time to make each of them, an assembly project usually will try to limit those occasions and the screens would be more same-ish, whereas it seems quicker to make in Basic-kun so one would sooner do that.

The video do not show "full screen scroll" anywhere. Just one or two horizontal stripes moving. That's not impressive, even if we consider it is written in XBasic.

Grauw wrote:

You can feel differently of course, but... to say it’s a problem that other people have a different opinion and praise the game...

That's a fallacy. Everybody deserves respect, but not all opinions do. It's a problem that other people opine that we have not arrived to the moon? Yes, of course it is a problem, because that opinion denies the facts and harms the people who worked hard to reach the moon. It's a problem that some people say that Live on Mars is an exceptional game better than many others? Yes, because it denies the facts and harms good developers who worked harder and studied harder than Kai Magazine to reach their goal. It is not a problem for me or for you. It's a problem for the MSX community.

Grauw wrote:

Different things are important for different people. You seem to prefer a lot of action and smooth movement, but for me it’s not super important (MG2 comes to mind... could be done in Basic-kun Smile), exploration, progression and story is more interesting.

I like well designed and well programmed games, and this one is not. I am sure that most people in this forum is able to notice that, but the false idea of praising everything new just because it is new prevents them to actually say that.

About MG2... Another comparison with another game that it's not one of my favourites :-P The same I said before applies here. They cannot be compared in any way. The complexity of MG2 is thousand of light years away from Live on Mars and, of course, it cannot be done in XBasic.

To conclude: it's perfectly fine that you or anybody else likes Live on Mars, in the same way that it's fine that I do not. However, that's not what I see here. People complaining is attacked (not me, fortunately). Also, we are a supposedly mature community so, we should be able to distinguish between games with a professional or near-professional quality and reasonably well-looking amateur games like Live on Mars.

There is one simple question to clarify my point of view. Let's pick some professional or near-professional games recently developed (for example, Booming Boy -that was mentioned somewhere else- or The Cure). I'm almost sure that they would have been a great success back in the 80's. Let's pick Live on Mars... I doubt any publisher wanted it. But we cannot check this, unless somebody here has a DeLorean ;-)

By Setzer

Supporter (7)

Setzer's picture

16-12-2015, 17:51

Kai... I started to reply to your message. I perfectly know how all the stuff you mention work (hard and soft sprites, background restoration, ...) and what you do is not that impressive. Most, if not all, of what you mention is quite common. As for software sprites, there is a game that does far better than yours: BombaMan. Actually, everything you mention was already done, and better, in most of the post-commercial MSX-2 games.

I started to reply until I read that with your engine and techniques, you could perfectly do a USAS2 with same gameplay and better graphics than USAS. If you really believe that, I have nothing more to say.

By Akiguchi

Hero (598)

Akiguchi's picture

16-12-2015, 17:58

Very promising looking game Kai! As I'm not a developer or programmer myself, I couldn't care less about the techniques used. MSX scene seems to be in going to direction where programmers shows each other tools and forget the main audience which has always been gamers.

But as purely on this gamer's perspective, this looks interesting and I especially like the mood on it. In my opinion it has some feel of early Aliens movies (and the MSX Square game also) and War of the Dead 2. I think it could be even better if there would be some npcs, talking, puzzles, items and stuff (like in Akin f. ex.). Maybe there is at some point? Anyway, I'm interested in buying the english cartridge version. Smile

By jgames

Resident (35)

jgames's picture

16-12-2015, 18:10

Setzer wrote:

Kai... I started to reply to your message. I perfectly know how all the stuff you mention work (hard and soft sprites, background restoration, ...) and what you do is not that impressive. Most, if not all, of what you mention is quite common. As for software sprites, there is a game that does far better than yours: BombaMan. Actually, everything you mention was already done, and better, in most of the post-commercial MSX-2 games.

I started to reply until I read that with your engine and techniques, you could perfectly do a USAS2 with same gameplay and better graphics than USAS. If you really believe that, I have nothing more to say.

Why so agressivly put down the effort of a team trying to bring a new MSX game to a long dead platform?

What spectacular great fun games have you done? and even if you did do great spectacular technically impressive AND fun games, it's not appropriate to put down efforts like this , in this manner, in any scenario.

And It doesn't need to be like contra, why would it be like contra? not all game want to have millions bullets on the screen...and some can have billion sprites on screen and be technically impressive, but sadly, they are not fun or appealing, and sometimes they are not fun because they have a billion sprites on screen Smile

I didn't want to post, but sometimes you can't just react as you didn't see anything.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

16-12-2015, 18:11

Setzer wrote:

It's a problem that some people say that Live on Mars is an exceptional game better than many others? Yes

Who said that? when?

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

16-12-2015, 18:16

Setzer wrote:

There is one simple question to clarify my point of view. Let's pick some professional or near-professional games recently developed (for example, Booming Boy -that was mentioned somewhere else- or The Cure). I'm almost sure that they would have been a great success back in the 80's. Let's pick Live on Mars... I doubt any publisher wanted it. But we cannot check this, unless somebody here has a DeLorean ;-)

We do not have a DeLorean to try that, but perhaps in a few months we can compare reviews and sale results?
After all, what matters here is not what 1 person thinks but what all the msx community thinks.
Perhaps some facts could clarify this in a few months.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

16-12-2015, 18:20

Akiguchi wrote:

Very promising looking game Kai! As I'm not a developer or programmer myself, I couldn't care less about the techniques used. MSX scene seems to be in going to direction where programmers shows each other tools and forget the main audience which has always been gamers.

But as purely on this gamer's perspective, this looks interesting and I especially like the mood on it. In my opinion it has some feel of early Aliens movies (and the MSX Square game also) and War of the Dead 2. I think it could be even better if there would be some npcs, talking, puzzles, items and stuff (like in Akin f. ex.). Maybe there is at some point? Anyway, I'm interested in buying the english cartridge version. Smile

Thanks Akiguchi, that was preciselly the admosphere we wanted to achieve.
We had Aliens, Dead Space and many other terror movies/games in mind while carefully creating the game admosphere and music.

Please contact me via email to proceed with the purchase.
Thanks!

By snout

Ambassador (15167)

snout's picture

16-12-2015, 18:34

@Setzer

You bring interesting points to the table - welcome to the MRC! I think I'm somewhere in the middle with this. I can appreciate the genius of releases like Uridium, SMW, Unknown Reality, Manbow 2 (the list goes on) and agree that Life on Mars is not playing in that league, nor does it pretend to be. Where you and I part ways is that only the most technically advanced releases deserve a lot of praise.

As already has been pointed out, there are more sides to a game (or even a demo) than technical achievements. What is more, not only should we put it in the context of games coded in X-Basic, we should also put it in the context of the software that's actually being released for MSX - or MSX2 in this case. I think many people are happy to finally see an MSX2 game again.

Last but not least, one could even take into account who has developed the software. If developers like ARTRAG, Maggoo, GuyveR800 (etc.) would release this as a final product I might have a bit more of an "is that all?" feeling, whereas if this was released by someone who is just taking their first steps in developing for MSX, like Syn or me, there's more reason to be deeply impressed. Kai is somewhere in between those groups and there's no shame in that. He's making progress as a developer and his "infectuous" enthusiasm about his upcoming releases reflect that progress.

Without these and possible other factors being voiced explicitly, I'm sure most of the MRC members took these into account when placing their comments. Perfectly fine by me, and a good way to stimulate Kai and other developers to keep growing and releasing stuff for MSX.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

16-12-2015, 18:42

I totally agree with snout.
I am far from being a genius at anything. There are a lot of people here with particular skills way better than me (coders, composers, artists...)
I am no specialist on any of those areas, I am a bit of everything without exelling at anything.
That's who I am and I am not ashamed.
I never had studies, or carreers, or anything. I am self taught, at coding, at music, at drawing... and even at speaking english.
As I said, I do not exell at anything. That is ok for me, and I hope for many here as well.

Thank you all for your opinions, suggestions, private mails showing support, and orders.

Since I have not been able to advance in 4 days due to the massive amount of emails, and the msx.org posts, I need to take some days off so we can finish the game and deliver it without further delay, so I will not be writting much for the next week or so.
Please do not take my silence as a disrespect or a lack of interest. Once the game is finished I will try to answer each and every post/email, but as I said, I advanced ZERO in 4 days.

Read you soon!

By Setzer

Supporter (7)

Setzer's picture

16-12-2015, 18:59

Quote:

Why so agressivly put down the effort of a team trying to bring a new MSX game to a long dead platform?

I am not being aggressive, just stating the facts. Sorry if it seems I was aggressive.

Quote:

What spectacular great fun games have you done? and even if you did do great spectacular technically impressive AND fun games, it's not appropriate to put down efforts like this , in this manner, in any scenario.

I have not made a single full MSX game in my life. And you? Do you mean that, because I have not made a game I cannot say anything contrary to Live on Mars? According to this reasoning, I must love all of the existing movies because I have never made one myself...

And I am not putting down the effort. I know, and I have said it many times, that a game like this requires lots of hours to be done. But, again, this does not mean that it is a good game. Ohh... I am repeating myself. Just read my previous posts.

Quote:

And It doesn't need to be like contra, why would it be like contra? not all game want to have millions bullets on the screen...and some can have billion sprites on screen and be technically impressive, but sadly, they are not fun or appealing, and sometimes they are not fun because they have a billion sprites on screen Smile

Ufff... read my previous messages. I think you have not understood what I said about Contra and MG2.

Quote:

I didn't want to post, but sometimes you can't just react as you didn't see anything.

Same here.

Quote:

Who said that? when?

Just to put two examples: you, when stating that a USAS2 is possible with your engine and that Live on Mars is not with SMW engine; and Grauw, when comparing Live on Mars to Contra and MG2.

Quote:

We do not have a DeLorean to try that, but perhaps in a few months we can compare reviews and sale results?
After all, what matters here is not what 1 person thinks but what all the msx community thinks.
Perhaps some facts could clarify this in a few months.

It is not the same. A professional publisher is very restrictive. Very high standards have to be met for the publisher to accept a game. What you are doing is like self-publishing a book in Amazon, not like publishing it in Springer or Thomson. So, you may sell the game reasonably well, but a professional published in the 80's would have never accepted your game. And I am sure it would have accepted the other games I mentioned.

@Snout:

Finally something reasonable here, really. I disagree with some of your statements, but I would repeat myself, and, at least, you are reasonable.

Quote:

I am far from being a genius at anything. There are a lot of people here with particular skills way better than me (coders, composers, artists...)

Kai... this humbleness does not match your previous messages. To anybody remarking a flaw in your game, you replied with tons of useless technical stuff trying to show you were the best.

By JohnHassink

Ambassador (4806)

JohnHassink's picture

16-12-2015, 19:07

Setzer wrote:

a professional published in the 80's would have never accepted your game. And I am sure it would have accepted the other games I mentioned.

Why not? There were 'professionally published' MSX2 games from the '80s with lower standards.

By Grauw

Enlighted (5626)

Grauw's picture

16-12-2015, 19:27

Setzer wrote:

Just to put two examples: you, when stating that a USAS2 is possible with your engine and that Live on Mars is not with SMW engine; and Grauw, when comparing Live on Mars to Contra and MG2.

I wasn’t saying Life on Mars was comparable to MG2, but I was saying that given the speed MG2 runs at, it could as well have been coded in Basic-kun. I used to turn on the 7 MHz to make the character run faster, even though it messed up the wonderful music. A critique on Konami if you will, but despite that it’s one of my favourite games due to the story and novel gameplay (we haven’t seen much of Life on Mars so we can’t judge the story or progression). From a tech pov, MG2 could’ve run at 60fps easily.

And my comparison to Contra was in relation to the number of enemies on screen, because you brought it up as a limiting factor, and the type of gameplay (platform shooter, screen-fliping). I’ve not claimed superiority of either the one or the other… Smile

About professional or community releases, a lot of terrible crap was released in the 80s.

By snout

Ambassador (15167)

snout's picture

16-12-2015, 19:19

@Setzer just a little tease then: you are aware of the exceptionally low quality of games some professional publishers were putting on the market before (and even after) the video game crash of 1983, right? Sure, there were a lot of gems and instant classics, but also plenty of products that were just plain embarrassing. Ask Angry Video Game Nerd...

By Setzer

Supporter (7)

Setzer's picture

16-12-2015, 19:41

Yes. But Kai has not compared Live on Mars to E.T. He has compared it to USAS. So, the target 80's publisher is a Konami-quality company.

By Grauw

Enlighted (5626)

Grauw's picture

16-12-2015, 20:20

He did so after your remarks, though Smile.

By the way, do you have some examples (quotes/links) of these comparisons you mention? I’ve been checking back a bit with ctrl-f and quickly scanned through the posts of this long thread as well, and don’t see anywhere where it’s said the game is as good as the SMW port, or any other game for that matter? I can’t find it.

And Konami’s quality lies mostly in the gameplay. Some games were technically impressive (e.g. Space Manbow, Salamander, Penguin Adventure), but SD Snatcher was not, and Metal Gear 2 was certainly not. King’s Valley 2 not either (also Basic-kunnable). And those are some of the greatest Konami MSX games.

By Daemos

Paragon (1647)

Daemos's picture

16-12-2015, 20:24

Funny how we are allready skipping to conclusions. Lets play it first then see.

By Ramones

Champion (264)

Ramones's picture

16-12-2015, 21:01

Grauw wrote:

And Konami’s quality lies mostly in the gameplay. Some games were technically impressive (e.g. Space Manbow, Salamander, Penguin Adventure), but SD Snatcher was not, and Metal Gear 2 was certainly not. King’s Valley 2 not either (also Basic-kunnable). And those are some of the greatest Konami MSX games.

Good point Grauw. I think there are two kind MSX2 users exist:

a) Compile-alike fans: smooth, playable, natural usage of native hardware features.), 60 fps...

b) SD-Snatcher-alike fans: slow, less playable, non-dynamic, hardware-forced (soft sprites "copys")... 30 or less fps...

I don't mean a) best than b) or viceversa.

Traditionally, I think Dutch users prefer b) games. LoM game seems b) and I understand you and other forum users with only a video are excited with the new Kai game.

I prefer a) games. Smile And I understand perfectly Setzer. I agree with him. And I think he isn't "flawing" this thread. He just writes his arguments very politely.

By Grauw

Enlighted (5626)

Grauw's picture

16-12-2015, 21:41

Ramones: I agree with that entirely, first sentence to last. I think the first category is more shooters and platformers, and the latter category more the RPGs and puzzle/strategy games.

Games that I played a lot are SD Snatcher, MG2, Ys, Fray, DS6, Akin, PA3, Akanbe Dragon, Daiva, Lupin III Cagliostro, Brisk, Elite, Quarth, Psycho World, Aleste, Salamander, King’s Valley II, Rune Master, Eggerland, DOTA, Fire Hawk, Usas, F1 Spirit. Maybe that confirms your supposition about Dutch MSX-ers at least for one of them Smile.

Incidentally the category b) type games with story and progression typically also often require a relatively big time investment to make, so we don’t see a lot of those in scene releases.

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

16-12-2015, 22:25

We should so organise a Psycho World real-time speedrun contest! A certain mister Vroemisse would be up for that too!
Whoops, I'm going off-topic. Going to warn myself.
{mod: one more off-topic and you're out, buster!}

By gdx

Paragon (1416)

gdx's picture

17-12-2015, 01:29

Kai, if it is possible improve too the font of texts please. In particular on the presentation screen. Try also to find another effect. The selection of game makes spot. I can even try to help a bit if needed.

By SLotman

Paragon (1188)

SLotman's picture

17-12-2015, 01:36

For those saying Life on Mars isn't impressive... try coding a fullscreen, multi-layered smooth scroll game on MSX. Software sprites or not - but not a demo, a game. You'll be pulling your hair out in no time.

Made in XBasic or not, the game itself *is* impressive, even for the ammount of work needed to pull something like that.

By Setzer

Supporter (7)

Setzer's picture

17-12-2015, 08:02

Quote:

He did so after your remarks, though Smile.

Yes, but before that particular remark about publishers.

Quote:

By the way, do you have some examples (quotes/links) of these comparisons you mention? I’ve been checking back a bit with ctrl-f and quickly scanned through the posts of this long thread as well, and don’t see anywhere where it’s said the game is as good as the SMW port, or any other game for that matter? I can’t find it.

Neither I can... You are probably right and there is no direct comparison between Live on Mars and SMW. The were both mentioned together, but not explicitly comparing them. My fault. Sorry for the confusion regarding this comparison.

Quote:

Traditionally, I think Dutch users prefer b) games. LoM game seems b) and I understand you and other forum users with only a video are excited with the new Kai game.

That may be a valid reason for Dutch users. Now let's find an explanation for non-Dutch users. (Just joking, no need to continue discussing this)

Quote:

For those saying Life on Mars isn't impressive... try coding a fullscreen, multi-layered smooth scroll game on MSX. Software sprites or not - but not a demo, a game. You'll be pulling your hair out in no time.

Made in XBasic or not, the game itself *is* impressive, even for the ammount of work needed to pull something like that.

Are you my evil twin? Just joking! :-)
You are saying exactly what I was trying to reject: fullscreen multi-layered scroll... where? code myself... why? a game... where? I have only seen a small video, not a game. And what you classify as a "multi-layered full-screen scroll" does not appear in-game in the video. Is sort of a transition screen, so absolutely no game there.

Finally, "made in XBasic or not the game itself is impressive". Ok. You know my opinion on this subject.

I think we have reached a dead end... no, a deadlock... no, this is a Basic thread, we've reached the GOTO 10 :-)

This is my last message regarding this particular subject. I will read and post in other threads, and maybe also in this one, but not about the quality of the game. We all have our points of view, nobody is going to change his mind, and I don't want my arrival here to be the source of useless arguments.

By SLotman

Paragon (1188)

SLotman's picture

17-12-2015, 08:53

Quote:

fullscreen multi-layered scroll... where?

3rd room, and others. The layer where the player walks, plus the background image.
I see that rooms with enemies have no scroll - but we didn't see the whole game yet, to see if that happens or not.

Quote:

code myself... why?

So you'll understand how hard it is to do even such "simple" thing - not to mention how time consuming it is. There is a reason most MSX games don't have smooth scroll - it isn't easy to do it, like it is on NES or SMS for example.

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

17-12-2015, 09:28

Slotman, technically it's not a multilayer scroll, but a parallax one. Easily doable with line interrupts and copys on MSX2.

A multilayer scroll would mean that sometimes the upper or lower wall that are scrolling dissapear and you could see the background image there. But, as I said, it's a parallax scroll, not multilayer. Effective, but not impressive under my point of view, of course.

By Grauw

Enlighted (5626)

Grauw's picture

17-12-2015, 09:46

@Setzer I don’t think it was a useless argument, I walked away with some interesting new perspectives.

By tonigalvez

Champion (278)

tonigalvez's picture

17-12-2015, 11:34

SLotman wrote:
Quote:

fullscreen multi-layered scroll... where?

3rd room, and others. The layer where the player walks, plus the background image.
I see that rooms with enemies have no scroll - but we didn't see the whole game yet, to see if that happens or not.

Quote:

code myself... why?

So you'll understand how hard it is to do even such "simple" thing - not to mention how time consuming it is. There is a reason most MSX games don't have smooth scroll - it isn't easy to do it, like it is on NES or SMS for example.

That is why people do not know the Artrag scrolling routines for SC5 and SC8, he manages to make 50 FPS smooth horizontal scroll on MSX2 with almost all CPU free and all the sprites availables for the gameplay. The Green Beret and Uridium 2 demos are there. The routines are public domain, so, have a check Artrag scrolling demos.

By Ramones

Champion (264)

Ramones's picture

17-12-2015, 13:03

tonigalvez wrote:

That is why people do not know the Artrag scrolling routines for SC5 and SC8, he manages to make 50 FPS smooth horizontal scroll on MSX2 with almost all CPU free and all the sprites availables for the gameplay. The Green Beret and Uridium 2 demos are there. The routines are public domain, so, have a check Artrag scrolling demos.

I agree, Toni. Those are good smooth-scrolling examples.. but... where are the games?

I think Kai scroll routine isn't smooth (even the video was recorded with Turbo R), but bad, good or ugly there is a game.

I hope see soon a new ARTRAG's game with this awesome stuff. :)

By Ramones

Champion (264)

Ramones's picture

17-12-2015, 13:18

Grauw wrote:

Incidentally the category b) type games with story and progression typically also often require a relatively big time investment to make, so we don’t see a lot of those in scene releases.

Hi Grauuw. I think we are on total off-topic. Maybe we need a new forum thread to discuss/talk about styles, new games, etc.. What you think?

By tonigalvez

Champion (278)

tonigalvez's picture

17-12-2015, 13:38

Ramones wrote:
tonigalvez wrote:

That is why people do not know the Artrag scrolling routines for SC5 and SC8, he manages to make 50 FPS smooth horizontal scroll on MSX2 with almost all CPU free and all the sprites availables for the gameplay. The Green Beret and Uridium 2 demos are there. The routines are public domain, so, have a check Artrag scrolling demos.

I agree, Toni. Those are good smooth-scrolling examples.. but... where are the games?

I think Kai scroll routine isn't smooth (even the video was recorded with Turbo R), but bad, good or ugly there is a game.

I hope see soon a new ARTRAG's game with this awesome stuff. :)

The routines are there for you coders, use them and make games with it, stop complaining about MSX2 horizontal scrolling maters ;) .

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

18-12-2015, 02:09

{mod: ontopic only please}

Thanks Kai Magazine for making a game on the MSX 2

By giuseve

Paladin (711)

giuseve's picture

20-12-2015, 10:20

Kai,
I sent you an email for the DV of this game.
I used the mailing feature on your profile of msx.org
Did you received it?
I have no answer yet by you.
Goog job
Giuseve

By Akiguchi

Hero (598)

Akiguchi's picture

23-12-2015, 19:58

Order placed at kennethalbero mail address for the english version. I assume it's out already as the 10 days period has passed?

By giuseve

Paladin (711)

giuseve's picture

27-12-2015, 20:48

Isn't kennethalbero mail address the mail where to order CARTRIDGE ?
Or is it also for the DV ordering?

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

01-01-2016, 01:39

giuseve wrote:

Isn't kennethalbero mail address the mail where to order CARTRIDGE ?
Or is it also for the DV ordering?

Hello, I did not recieved any email from you. I answered every single message I have recieved by now.
The address is kennethalbero@hotmail.com

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

01-01-2016, 02:02

Hello everyone! I am happy to see msx.org is up and running again Smile

Sorry for the delay!
I am happy to announce that the game is finished, the graphics modified, and almost ready to be sent.
The reason for the delay is that we have a surprise for all of you:

Artrag has implemented his scc pcm sample subroutine in the game!

What does this mean?

This means that, now, for those who do not have a moonsound or compatible, will be able to listen to pcm sampled sound effects if they insert an original konami game with scc on the cartridge slot 2 of the msx (slot 1 will have Life on Mars inserted)

This has a downside. If your msx does not have an internal fm pac, and you need to used an external fm pac in cartridge format, you will not have enough slots to use the 3 cartridges at the same time:
1-Life on mars
2-Fm Pac or Music Module
3-Oiginal Konami game with scc integrated
We were not able to test the game with those 2 cartridges and an slot expansor, but we are almost 100% it will NOT work with an slot expansor.
This is good news for those who already have fm pac integrated in their msx, since they will only need 2 slots (1-game, 2-scc cartridge)
Those fortunate who have internal fm will enjoy sampled sound effects in real time, without slowdowns!
AFAIK this will be the first time this is accomplished on an msx2 (without turbo r pcm or moonsound).
This is an extremely experimental engine, and we had to recode and make space to an already maxed out 512k rom to fit some more files into the virtual DSK and some extra scc pcm sample files, in addition to the moonsound samples we already had.
Also, the game has been extended a bit, the graphics are better (very similar to the previous ones, due to many requests from Spanish and Italian users who asked us NOT to modify the graphics, but we made a compromise and we did something in between), we solved many bugs, and we basically re-made a big percentage of the game to include both graphic changes and code/space improvements.

This is the reason for the delay on the release, but I belive you will be happy with all the new additions we included (graphics, slightly longer game, SCC PCM SAMPLES!)

I will keep you informed during the next 72 hours regarding the last retouches, the selection of the right pcm samples, and the english translation correction, but the game is almost ready and it is a matter of 3 or 4 days now.

Thanks to artrag for all the many weeks, days and hours he has put into making this amazing feat possible Smile
You can all be sure we will reciprocate by helping him with everything we can on the uridium 2 developement (and we will keep the graphics ripping to a minimum. Tongue just kidding! Just a joke!)

We will upload videos with the retouched graphics, fm musics with sampled scc pcm sounds, etc. shortly (3 days tops) and we will start the shipments just after that.

Happy new year to everyone!

By Grauw

Enlighted (5626)

Grauw's picture

01-01-2016, 02:55

Great news! Looking forward to my copy!

Happy new year!

By giuseve

Paladin (711)

giuseve's picture

01-01-2016, 08:36

Wow. And what about the Digital Version.
I mean.
I have a megaflashromscc+sd with 512kram on slot1 and a fmpac on slot2 in a nms8245.
Should it work if flashed on megaflashrom?
With this congiguration the Scc is a subslot of slot 1, if i remember right

By Manuel

Ascended (13164)

Manuel's picture

01-01-2016, 09:11

If it helps: you could try to test weird slot configurations on openMSX to try if it's working and possibly debug and/or fix it.

Other than that: please take your time to make it as good as you intend to! Smile

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (5755)

ARTRAG's picture

01-01-2016, 10:57

The only problem with the current version of the scc player is that it does not changes the subslot if not at initial setup.
If two carts are in the same slot and in different subslots my code will fail.
I could try to fix this, anyway if the scc cart is in a slot and the slot expander with the fm pack and LoM is in the other slot, it could work as well (if the music player supports subslots properly)

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

01-01-2016, 13:10

Kai Magazine wrote:
giuseve wrote:

Isn't kennethalbero mail address the mail where to order CARTRIDGE ?
Or is it also for the DV ordering?

Hello, I did not recieved any email from you. I answered every single message I have recieved by now.
The address is

Sorry, you have not. Unless your e-mail address in your profile is wrong or my provider blocks yours.
Haven't had a reply.
I'm awaiting instructions.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

01-01-2016, 15:14

giuseve wrote:

Wow. And what about the Digital Version.
I mean.
I have a megaflashromscc+sd with 512kram on slot1 and a fmpac on slot2 in a nms8245.
Should it work if flashed on megaflashrom?
With this congiguration the Scc is a subslot of slot 1, if i remember right

The game will work but the pcm scc samples will not, since those only work with original Scc games manufactured by Konami. Megaflashrom scc is not a konami original. Sorry.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

01-01-2016, 15:21

Meits wrote:
Kai Magazine wrote:
giuseve wrote:

Isn't kennethalbero mail address the mail where to order CARTRIDGE ?
Or is it also for the DV ordering?

Hello, I did not recieved any email from you. I answered every single message I have recieved by now.
The address is

Sorry, you have not. Unless your e-mail address in your profile is wrong or my provider blocks yours.
Haven't had a reply.
I'm awaiting instructions.

Hello Meits, I have been checking all the emails I recieved, and I cannot find yours. I found a copule of messages from December 16th from eVuLoPaH who mentions you and your beautiful musics, since I mentioned him we are looking for music composers for future msx projects, but I did not find a message from you.
I guess hotmail must have sent it to the "non wanted email" and since I recieve many dozens every day, I did not see yours.
Please try to contact me again to my email: kennethalbero@hotmail.com and you can also try kaimagazine@outlook.com
I will be paying attention to the spam/unwanted folders for the next copule of days.
You can also give me your email here, so I can write to you, but I understand if you do not want to post your email here.
eVuLoPaH could send me your email as well. I will write to him.
Sorry about that.

Please if anyone wrote to me and did not recieve a response by now, please post it here so we can solve it.
Thanks!

By Manuel

Ascended (13164)

Manuel's picture

01-01-2016, 16:14

ARTRAG, the sample player really doesn't work on SCC+? (Either Konami's or MegaFlashROM's?)

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

01-01-2016, 16:46

As far as I tested, it works on original konami scc+ but not on fpga scc+.
As I said, right now it works on originally manufactured konami scc cartridges (scc+ included)

By Manuel

Ascended (13164)

Manuel's picture

01-01-2016, 17:25

Perhaps because the SCC+ is in a subslot in the case of MegaFlashROM SCC+ SD?

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

01-01-2016, 17:38

I belive that is the case. Artrag will explain it to you better, but right now he is on holydays and he has little access to internet (this is why I am trying to answer for him even thoug I am not technically qualified).
If he can fix the sub slot detection I belive it will work.
Anyway since his engine had to be implemented on a turbo-basic game which was not developed for this routine, he has very little space to work and it is very difficult to fit all that code in such an small space.
Let's see if he can do it.
Anyway future games will be designed to be fitted in his routine, not the opposite such as in this case, so it will be way easier for him to implement all the necessary code.
This was a last "minute" (copule of weeks) experiment, but he accomplished the unthinkable! (multi task pcm scc samples from basic while fm/music module music is being played, without slowdown!) I still cannot belive my eyes (ears), even thoug I have it working on my msx at the moment. Amazing!

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (5755)

ARTRAG's picture

01-01-2016, 17:55

It could also be a problem related to the detection but not having the real hw I can only guess.
Anyway some fpga implementations of the scc chip do not support wave reset when period is written.
As the player relies on the relationship among the phase of the different channels, on those chips the pcm sound gets distorted.

Once fixed the subslot management we will see how accurate is the scc implemented by Pazos Wink

By Grauw

Enlighted (5626)

Grauw's picture

01-01-2016, 18:46

Yeah just gotta get that subslot selection right first I think so there’s no restrictions on which roms are in what slot.

The MegaFlashROM SCC+ SD supports the phase reset, so it should work fine (I just tested in Synthesix), however it’s worth noting that unlike the Konami Sound Cartridge, the deformation register is at E0H in stead of C0H. At least in SCC mode (haven’t tried SCC+ mode). Maybe it’s easiest to just always set both E0H and C0H…

Edited my post here to include a picture for the MFRSCC+SD.

By giuseve

Paladin (711)

giuseve's picture

01-01-2016, 18:19

Hallo Kai,

Mail sent again via the webmail of my provider (THIS TIME I DIDN'T USED THE MAIL-TO FEATURE OF YOUR PROFILE)
Sent to
kennethalbero@hotmail.com
kaimagazine@outlook.com

at 18:12 of 01.01.2016
Can you check, please ?

Happy new year to you all !!!

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

01-01-2016, 19:01

giuseve wrote:

Hallo Kai,

Mail sent again via the webmail of my provider (THIS TIME I DIDN'T USED THE MAIL-TO FEATURE OF YOUR PROFILE)
Sent to
kennethalbero@hotmail.com
kaimagazine@outlook.com

at 18:12 of 01.01.2016
Can you check, please ?

Happy new year to you all !!!

I did recieve your message this time, and I just sent you a message in return.

By giuseve

Paladin (711)

giuseve's picture

01-01-2016, 20:09

Thanks,

Answer received.
Just answered to it.

See U

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

02-01-2016, 14:53

Hello, after recieving several messages from msx.org users who contacted me weeks ago via the personal contact form, I see I did not recieve any of the messages sent to me using that method, so I disabled that option in my profile.

By now, I answered ALL messages I recieved.
If anyone has not recieved an answer from me by now, please contact me at: kennethalbero@hotmail.com

Thanks!

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

05-01-2016, 03:22

All right! GAME OVER!
Life on Mars is officially complete!
Here is a video of the first 15 minutes of gameplay (in English) on a turbo-r + moonsound:

https://youtu.be/3fyZ_8hdQnI

It now supports:
Fm and/or music module + PSG sound effects
Fm and/or music module + SCC (or scc+) sampled PCM sound effects (now compatible with slot expanders)
Moonsound or other OPL4 compatible + OPL4 sampled sound effects
You can hear the difference of each configuration by watching this videos:

FM musics + PSG sound effects:
https://youtu.be/Ri6CcWN8aKE

FM musics + SCC PCM sampled sound effects:
https://youtu.be/H4UlxbVi5ZA

Moonsound musics and sound effects:
https://youtu.be/gN-iZbkQBWI

MEGAFLASHROM SCC+ USERS:
Please note: megaflashrom scc+ users will not hear SCC sampled effects, the internal SCC cannot be used due to an incompatibility so PSG sound will be used. Anyway you can insert an original konami scc/scc+ cartridge on another cartridge slot to enjoy the scc pcm samples.
If your MSX has internal FM sound, you can install the game on slot 1 and a konami scc cartridge on slot 2.
If your MSX does not have internal FM sound, you must choose between FM music and PSG sound, or SCC sampled effects and NO MUSIC, unless you have 3 slots on your MSX, or an slot expander.
Anyway, the Spanish hardware development group called “Calamar Soft” is currently developing a multi chip sound cartridge including several sound chips in one single cartridge. This could be a solution on a near future for those who do not have more than 2 slots and no internal FM.
As I said, the game works flashed in the Msgaflashrom, but with PSG sound effects. The game must be manually flashed from DOS by using the following command, otherwise it will not boot:

Opfxsd LOMengli.ROM /U

The /U disables all subslots, this is the reason the megaflash’s scc is not compatible, but the game will not boot unless you use the /U option.
If anyone finds a way to make it boot without the /U option, the scc should work, but I did not find any (oviously).

EMULATOR USERS:
If your PC is powerful enough, you should use Turbo-R configuration + Moonsound in order to enjoy the game at its maximum capacity.
Reduce maximum auto frame skip to 0 (zero) on openmsx because it tends to skip some frames now and then, making the gameplay a bit messy (at least on my computers…)
Also be aware that all emulators have a delay of a few milliseconds, usually unnoticeable, but since this game requires very precise timing to do certain jumps and snapshots, I find it more difficult to play on an emulator than on a real MSX due to this very small delay.

LAST BUT NOT LEAST:
Tomorrow we will send all the digital versions to all the people who has already paid (now it is 3:04 AM here and I am not up to the task) and 1 or 2 days later we will begin shipping all the cartridges. Since there are quite a lot, and those have to be flashed and checked, it takes long to complete all the orders, so it will take us 2 or 3 days.
In the meantime, if the digital users find any bug, they can report it to me: kennethalbero@hotmail.com.
I am aware of 3 very minor graphical bugs that can occur if certain conditions are met, but those do not affect the playability on any level. I could not fix those bugs due to lack of RAM so I had to compromise... I’d rather use the ram to add dedicated support to 2 different CPU and 5 different sound chips, and other many features. I hope you agree and/or understand.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

05-01-2016, 03:56

One last thing:
Regarding the videos, this have been recorded on openMSX, and since the game works at a different framerate than the video, this creates an annoying ghost effect and courtain effect, making smooth scrolls (in the intro), or smooth movements (like the ship moving from right to left on the first scenne of the intro, or the character's or bullets movement.
The actual game is not that annoying. On turbo-R will always work completelly smooth. On msx2 will often skip frames, but the movement is less annoying than in the video.
Another last thing Tongue
Since the ROM is heavily compressed, the MSX cpu has to de-compress all the loaded data on real time. This is a relatively fast job for the R800, but load times on z80 will take longer, so do not worry, this is normal.

The last last thing oO
Do not neglect the Bomb Tournament mini game, this was the original game we intended to do, based on an old japanese mini game called Bombkura, but we complicated ourselves with a story mode which took 4 months instead of 4 weeks... But the original idea, bomb tournament, is lots of fun for 2 or 3 simultaneous players, and it runs at 60FPS on turbo-R (as a matter of fact the Life on Mars game could have run at 60FPS as well, but the game would be unplayable, so I had to slow it down from 60 to 30 fps in order to become playable! yes! there are a copule of lines in the main engine constantly slowing down the game on r800, on pruppose!)
So, get yourself a copule of friends and at least 1 joystick (2 players can use the keyboard, the third requieres a joystick) and give it a go, you will not regret it! It has many hours and days of re-playability value, so make sure to give it a go with 3 players!

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

05-01-2016, 22:56

Allright! now the game is compatible with the internal SCC of the megaflashrom!
Thank you Artrag!
Now any msx2 user with megaflashrom will be able to listen to PCM sampled effects and listen to the BGM's by installing an FM pac or Music Module on cartridge slot 2 (or with the internal FM of the msx, if available)

The game must be flashed on the megaflashrom with the following command:

opfxsd lomenscc.rom /k5 /u

This way there are no need for holding keys at boot, etc.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

09-01-2016, 16:14

Hello everyone!
After several days of no bug reports from the digital version purchasers, we decided to flash the final version into the cartridges, and we checked every cartridge one by one. This took a copule of days, but all cartridges are recorded now, and we started making packages, so the shipments will begin on Monday.
Thank you everyone for your huge patientie Wink

Kai Magazine.

By Meits

Scribe (4158)

Meits's picture

09-01-2016, 18:25

One thing I noticed is that I found an item somewhere, died and respawned at the MSX terminal/elevator room and still had the item.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

09-01-2016, 19:39

Meits wrote:

One thing I noticed is that I found an item somewhere, died and respawned at the MSX terminal/elevator room and still had the item.

Yes, that is correct. In this game you do not actually die. As explained the first time you reach the elevator, when your shield reaches zero, you will get transported to the last msx terminal room area you have been, with all your current progress intact.
So that is perfectly ok Smile

By Meits

Scribe (4158)

Meits's picture

09-01-2016, 20:21

I was rolling a ciggy at that time I guess Smile

By zPasi

Champion (260)

zPasi's picture

25-01-2016, 10:36

Almost forgot. Is this cart still available? English version please!

Looks awesome!

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

25-01-2016, 14:20

Hello zPasi,
I will recieve more cartridges this week so, yes, you can order one Smile
Please email me with your address, etc:
kennethalbero@hotmail.com

Thank you!

By ren

Hero (632)

ren's picture

25-01-2016, 15:01

I do think it's a bit quiet after the release..
How are people liking the game?

By Daemos

Paragon (1647)

Daemos's picture

25-01-2016, 15:21

I think that people haven't had the chance to thoroughly play the game yet.

By valkyre

Champion (305)

valkyre's picture

25-01-2016, 16:36

Im enjoying it, a nice release to start the year with.

By fernando.collazo.5682

Master (172)

fernando.collazo.5682's picture

25-01-2016, 21:14

I´m still waiting mine...

By fernando.collazo.5682

Master (172)

fernando.collazo.5682's picture

25-01-2016, 21:12

I´m still waiting mine...

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1148)

Kai Magazine's picture

25-01-2016, 22:14

Hello, I sent yours alreay Smile
Usually it takes 2 or 3 weeks to get delivered to Brazil.
Since you ordered it last week, you will recieve it in 10 to 17 days aprox.
I hope you enjoy it Wink

My MSX profile