Seleniak - alternative version

by mars2000you on 15-08-2004, 22:15
Topic: Software
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Seleniak is one of the games released in the MSXdev'04 contest. Soon after its release people spotted the game didn't work on blueMSX and other fMSX based emulators (with the exception of paraMSX), because these emulators don't pass a timing test. This test was made to guarantee a good sound-quality, because some emulators don't calculate the extra wait cycles that the DRAM refreshing circuitry inserts during CPU M1 cycles.

As Seleniak uses synchronous code to generate the PWM and PCM sounds in the soundtrack, executing the game in those emulators should cause the music being completely out of tune while the sampled sounds play too high and with extra noise at the ending. MKII, the developer of Seleniak, created a version that should work on these emulators. This version of Seleniak can now be found at the MSXDev'04 status page.

The alternative version uses compensated tuning tables that will sound good in all emulators that don't take those wait cycles into account. Of course, this version can't be used on an emulator where the M1 cycles are good calculated. The next version of blueMSX should fix the M1 issue and would therefore improve the accuracy of the emulator on the whole.

Relevant link: Robsy's MSX Workshop

Comments (21)

By Manuel

Ascended (18088)

Manuel's picture

16-08-2004, 10:34

Note that AFAIK the original works fine in openMSX. Please tell me if it is not.

By Grauw

Ascended (10018)

Grauw's picture

16-08-2004, 12:04

It does. This version is only for emulators which incorrectly do not emulate the additional M1 state MSX puts on the Z80, but openMSX does this correctly. I also tried, btw, so this is not just a theoretical confirmation Smile.

By Manuel

Ascended (18088)

Manuel's picture

16-08-2004, 13:36

Thanks!

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5844)

NYYRIKKI's picture

16-08-2004, 16:40

Ugly hack, yak! This is something I really didn't want to see. I hope it is last time, I see game, that is released for MSX emulator!

Don't get me wrong, the game it self is really nice, but if you ask me, these kind of hacks are not worth of geting posted as news... I don't think they should even exist. Only exeption is, if they are delivered as patch with emulator... then it is even somehow acceptable.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5963)

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16-08-2004, 17:06

That's probably indeed the last time that you should see such adaptation for emulators !

This was here requested as this game is excellent and as blueMSX is the most populair emulator. As next version of the emulator should fix the M1 issue, it means that such problem would no more happen in the future !

Thanks by the way to MkII for his help ... and his excellent game !

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

anonymous's picture

16-08-2004, 17:30

ROFL!!!
A bit arrogant maybe?

Most popular emulator, don't make me sick!

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5963)

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16-08-2004, 17:34

No arrogance at all, only facts as download stats and reactions : not only on the blueMSX forum, but also by e-mail, and you should be surprised to see that many excellent programmers are interested by the emulator, use it and give us many useful tips

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

anonymous's picture

16-08-2004, 18:08

So you have stats from all the other MSX emulators too?!

Besides, how many people will download blueMSX and throw it away, because it isn't accuracte enough?!
I mean, COME ON... forgive me, but it's a MIRACLE it runs as much as it does...

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5963)

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16-08-2004, 18:17

There also an evolution in the stats ... so, the people that delete the file must be really a minority, especially when you know that excellent programmers use it !

There's no miracle, only much work from the team and many tips from users that appreciate the emulator progress.

I know that your option is different (openMSX) and I respect it, but I'm still surprised by your not-really-positive reactions about blueMSX ! For my part, I appreciate different emulators and I respect other's work. That's not so difficult, believe me ...

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

anonymous's picture

16-08-2004, 19:17

I'm just annoyed at your PROPAGANDA...

And my preference for openMSX has nothing to do with this.

Fact: BlueMSX doesn't emulate the Z80 timing correctly.
Result: It's a miracle anything runs.

Again, just like that Turnix runs.. that's either a HACK or a MIRACLE.
You can choose, but remember there is no fscking way it runs because of accurate emulation!!!

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5963)

mars2000you's picture

16-08-2004, 20:08

Do you know the best "propaganda" for the emulators ? Your reactions !

Why ? Because people check by himself if you are right or wrong.

Common users appreciate that they preferred games or demos work.

Advanced users and programmers appreciate more deeply the good sides and the bad sides of the emulator. If they are really interested by the emulator, they take contact with us and make positive critics and suggestions.

It happens everyday ! These are facts, nor dreams or miracles !

So, thank you for your reactions .... more people will contribute positively to the emulator !

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

anonymous's picture

16-08-2004, 21:02

Whatever man, go ahead and be happy with the hackjob...

People use crappy products every day, like Windows, so I'm not surprised people use your emulator...

Apparently it has no use to talk to you about facts and technicalities, because you only seem to speak in marketing terms.

By Thom

Paladin (683)

Thom's picture

16-08-2004, 21:24

People use crappy products every day, like Windows, so I'm not surprised people use your emulator...
Perhaps that's because those "crappy" products are easier to use for Joe Public.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5963)

mars2000you's picture

16-08-2004, 21:53

> People use crappy products every day, like Windows, so I'm not surprised people use your emulator...

Very charming opinion for all the programmers that use the emulator and contribute positevely ... I'm sure they will appreciate your attitude as it must be ... Do you are God by the way ???!

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

anonymous's picture

16-08-2004, 21:55

I do not am god. Apparently you think you are the saviour of all, though...

By BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

BiFi's picture

16-08-2004, 21:56

I thought Latok was our saviour Smile

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5963)

mars2000you's picture

16-08-2004, 21:57

I don't have this ambition .... but maybe you ?

By snout

Ascended (15184)

snout's picture

16-08-2004, 22:13

{mod mode}

I have just removed some messages that were in no way relevant to the original newsposting and which would have invided further 'discussion' on a more personal level. I suggest we let the topic 'BlueMSX' go for the moment being. (in the reactions on this newspost, that is)

{/mod mode}

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5963)

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16-08-2004, 22:13

Read fast, because the previous post will disappear in a black hole !

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5963)

mars2000you's picture

16-08-2004, 22:14

End of the "discussion"- All further opinions will be ignored

By snout

Ascended (15184)

snout's picture

16-08-2004, 22:20

Opinions on Seleniak and the adaptation of fMSX-based emulators to become more accurate are still welcome. I just don't think this way of discussing is getting us anywhere. Lets try and find a different approach, shall we?