Best demos

Enlighted (4140)

07-12-2022, 18:59

santiontanon wrote:

Hehe, I have mixed feelings about demos like "bad apple", on the one hand, the challenge to encode/compress/send the data at high speed is nice, but then I only find it interesting if you add constraints (e.g., limiting to MSX1, or trying to do the best possible with a single 128KB MegaROM, etc.), once constraints start to be lifted and additional hardware is used, then it's not something that I am very interested in anymore haha (but again, that's just my preference, I understand that others are excited to see what can be done with new hardware).

If the constraint cannot be work-arounded you can find exciting as you want, but the only thing you get is shitty results or not feasible thing. then the funny moments start to turn to frustrating moments ;-)

Van wolf_

Ambassador_ (10109)

07-12-2022, 19:52

YouTube also just plays videos, yet they can be entertaining. Same with demos; maybe it's some kind of video, but if it's entertaining to watch: mission fulfilled!

I feel that Sphere and Wings should be mentioned as semi-video (at least it's non-linear). These engines are rather simple, there's not much happening. The art lies in the images and music, and especially the combination of those two. So, the attention focus of the developer shifts from "is this a new hidden technique" to "let's make a fun show with what we have". If you're among the first group, you'll likely have enjoyed all the dozens of scroll text variations we saw in the past, for being about new discoveries. Horizontal waves, stretchers, layered on top of something else etc. etc.

Of course, this brings us back to what a demo is. Is it a demonstration of skills in code and maths? Or is it about audiovisual entertainment, in some form? On MSX it's rare that both are combined.

Van ARTRAG

Enlighted (6935)

07-12-2022, 21:11

Sphere and Wings are a blend of art, poetry and technology.They are much more than a normal demo, or better, they are what all demos should try to achieve. Waving and scrolling is ok, but the interest falls after the first 10 seconds....

Van Accumulator

Champion (339)

07-12-2022, 23:02

Regarding to bad apple, if you create a large triangle and morph from one image/shape to another by line interup VDP 23, is it regarded as video or not? Like ball to diamond to square to chess Pon , to other symmetrical shape. And to create holes in the image sprites can be added.

Just stumbled on this demo. Original, and could be done with tms9918 or 9938...

Van badsector

Rookie (27)

08-12-2022, 01:13

What is a demo?

wolf_ wrote:

Of course, this brings us back to what a demo is. Is it a demonstration of skills in code and maths? Or is it about audiovisual entertainment, in some form? On MSX it's rare that both are combined.

I agree. The combination is very visible on C64, Amiga and PC demo's which often have a combination of both. Demo making is an art form and there are a lot of different kinds of art, and different tastes about that.

I think what a demo should entail is a way to amaze and delight the audience. Then the form is of minor importance. If you do something like "Bad apple", "Sphere" or "Wings" for the first few times, the audience is still amazed. But if the thing has been done over and over again without any significant improvement the audience gets bored. A demo may still have a scroller, although that's nothing new. But when such a scroller seemingly defies the laws of nature (MSX' limits), it's another interesting demo element. (Whether you like scrollers or not)

I think there is still a lot of ground to gain for MSX in the Oldskool demo scene. But it is important to come up with original content. I'm currently working hard on some Demo ideas, but I'd like to see some challenging competition. So does anyone feel called to take on that challenge? Because every demo scene needs a healthy dose of rivalry.

Van Accumulator

Champion (339)

08-12-2022, 04:48

The last couple of years I have some ideas also, however it is not about demo it is incorporate the tricks from the past in game format, but not really had the time. If you think of the game 'legends of lana' , combined with a kind of 'vampire killer' and the 3d bars of 'dawn of time' . You get an amazing result. I have a draft somewhere and it looks awesome. Sprites are needed to create backgrounds, like windows, candles etc.
Nowadays it is, in my opinion, about interactive content, if I am correct ANMA did it by using the rotating spheres in a kind of Arkanoid thing, or it is my imagination what you could do with it.
Badsector is correct, it is what you can add and push the boundaries over and over again, ofcourse not everyone can keep up with what is done over the years. To be honest I am also missing some knowledge and updated skills over some decades, I had been away from the scene.

Van Accumulator

Champion (339)

08-12-2022, 09:43

@ARTAG, I had never seen Wings or Sphere before today, IMHO superb rendering and coding, but... It is 'just' like another Bandwagon demo, although improved...

Van wolf_

Ambassador_ (10109)

08-12-2022, 10:12

@Accumulator: the core idea was to provide audio-visual entertainment. Completely artist-designed, whereas in traditional demos the design is done by coders, based on their knowledge of the system. The 4Motion-code isn't that hard, really. The video editor I made for it took longer to make.

Van santiontanon

Paragon (1810)

08-12-2022, 20:30

@badsector: Very curious to see what you are working on! I have been wanting do try doing a demo for a while, but never got started. Perhaps seeing some new demo gives me more motivation haha. What I was thinking about are the usual 3d object and tunnel effects, for which I have some ideas on how to make them work fast on MSX1 (but one thing is having the idea, and a whole other thing is making it work in practice haha)

Van Accumulator

Champion (339)

10-12-2022, 02:02

@wolf_, of course it is spectacular, and I fully understand the editor, tool certainly a while, currently I am playing with FreeCad and Libre cat, and extract frame, convert in characters (colored and white).
I like to use 2 colors in a font in screen 0 60-80 colomns. Still puzzling.
Back to Sphere and Wings, the rendering is sublime... If there is a way to create game from it. Superb.