Why in the eighties they did not squezed hw?

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Van enribar

Paragon (1144)

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31-08-2016, 18:38

at this point of thread, all seems to lead to the beginning:
Mentality - Taste - Market

Van Marq

Champion (387)

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31-08-2016, 18:39

MSX has its all-encompassing BIOS, so you shouldn't do direct hardware access. Try pushing the hardware then Smile

Van MsxKun

Paragon (1038)

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31-08-2016, 18:41

AxelStone wrote:

You are mixing concepts. Spectrum ports is not a good reference, other Z80 based systems as Amstrad CPC suffered them due to cost issues: with 1 code (spectrum) you get 3 versions (Spectrum, MSX, CPC). In most case, the CPC version was Spectrum version with colors, but didn't use the VDP capabilities of CPC.

Back then, In most cases, it was easier to them to poo on our hw instead of using it properly, not even talking of any squeeze Smile

Van tvalenca

Paladin (747)

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31-08-2016, 19:06

ARTRAG wrote:

tvalenca the C64 has tiles in all modes
http://www.commodore.ca/manuals/c64_programmers_reference/c6...
It has hw scrolling (and more) and a larger user base who tried to explore all the hw possibilities of the machine
http://z9.io/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/intro-to-programming-c64-demos.html

Wow, missed that.

Van PingPong

Prophet (3793)

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31-08-2016, 21:36

AxelStone wrote:

Speccy has no secrets to explore, it was easy to get max from it. C64 has a lot of hardware features: make a smoth scroll on C64 don't need any special technique, you get it directly from hardware.

Please see some tricks on c64 like sprites on border or 9 sprites on line before telling of special tecniques.
The fact that what is out of the box on c64 (hw scrolling) is requiring advanced programming on msx does not mean that c64 does not have secrets. even speccy do have. Look at the tricks that use the ULA snow effects. (search on google)
Obviously the tricks are different on different machine.

Van Timmy

Master (176)

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31-08-2016, 21:55

AxelStone wrote:

Speccy has no secrets to explore, it was easy to get max from it. C64 has a lot of hardware features: make a smoth scroll on C64 don't need any special technique, you get it directly from hardware.

Even now in the last couple of years there have been a lot of achievements made with the Spectrum hardware. For example, it is possible to do 2 colours on 8x1 pixels now like MSX screen mode 2.

Van yzi

Champion (444)

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31-08-2016, 22:09

Different people with different ideals, different companies, different cultures, different design goals... is it surprising that the results may be different as well? I don't think it should come as a surprise.

What comes to stretching an 8 bit machine to its extremes, check the C64 scene. For example, read the story and comments on this prod: http://csdb.dk/release/?id=115690

Van yzi

Champion (444)

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31-08-2016, 22:20

The ultimate MSX tech stretcher prod, in my opinion, is the IO demo coded by Overflow
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=65232

Van Pac

Scribe (6478)

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01-09-2016, 17:31

Manuel wrote:

I think in the 80s they did not squeeze hw because it's not commercially interesting. Too much work for too little profit. You make something that sells, not something that's technically the most awesome...

A good story behind plus good graphics, music and playability, that's the secret and Konami is the best example of this.

Van santiontanon

Paragon (1526)

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01-09-2016, 22:26

Another factor is that back in the 80s they didn't have the resources we have right now (internet where to find info about everything, emulators to try all kind of crazy stuff without the danger of damaging hardware, fast computers where to try little changes in your code in seconds, etc.). So, it's quite unfair to compare what we can do now with what they could do back then...

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