MSX1 GAMES improved on MSX2

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Van NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (6016)

afbeelding van NYYRIKKI

26-02-2008, 18:54

what about the cpu speed difference?
I noticed quite some games on msx2 getting slow when the screen becomes filled with enemies (undeadline, salamander. etc. etc.).
Do those kinda games run more smooth on an msx2+/tr (because of the cpu speed difference)
Question

Many games can benefit from MSX tR speed if they are not using VDP too much. VDP-access is actually more slow on R800 than on Z80, but usually this is not a problem in games.

For example Aleste 2 (MSX2) or Elite (MSX1) can run really smooth on R800. Too bad the MSX-Music does not work in R800 mode on Aleste 2. In Elite the graphics move really smoothly on R800, but unfortunately in both of the cases the game changes much harder.

To start for example Aleste2 in R800 mode, boot the computer without disk while holding key "1" down, put the disk in and write:

POKE &HF346,1:DEFUSR=&H180:A=USR(0):_SYSTEM

Van ARTRAG

Enlighted (6923)

afbeelding van ARTRAG

26-02-2008, 19:00

Back to the topic (MSX1 GAMES improved on MSX2)
I think that it could be nice to develop some MSX1 game that can show MSX2 graphics on higher machines.
Only some kind of games are suitable, but Caos Begins, MoG, Goonies are all in the list of "upgradable"games...

Any idea on the subject ? A new competition ? Technical solutions for "automatic patches" of existing games?

Van PingPong

Prophet (4093)

afbeelding van PingPong

26-02-2008, 19:05

Back to the topic (MSX1 GAMES improved on MSX2)
I think that it could be nice to develop some MSX1 game that can show MSX2 graphics on higher machines.
Only some kind of games are suitable, but Caos Begins, MoG, Goonies are all in the list of "upgradable"games...

Any idea on the subject ? A new competition ? Technical solutions for "automatic patches" ?

I agree. A very cool feature could be some sort of patching to make msx1 tilebased games runnable on msx2......
Even if the VDP is not sooo fast to manage tile with hmmc there is also the possibility to skip the tiles that does not changes between frames. Otherwise, games like XAK, Coredump, Akin could not be made....

Van SLotman

Paragon (1242)

afbeelding van SLotman

26-02-2008, 19:35

What I don't get is why whoever implemented MSX2 specs, didnt include a bit to be set somewhere to enable 8 sprites per line on screen2. So many MSX1 games could benefit from it...

Van wolf_

Ambassador_ (10088)

afbeelding van wolf_

26-02-2008, 19:50

mm would they? If MSX1 games have some kinda cycle routine aimed at 4-on-a-row or if MSX1 games use the >4th sprites to wipe out other sprites (F1-spirit/bridges) then you're stuck already..

Van PingPong

Prophet (4093)

afbeelding van PingPong

26-02-2008, 20:07

mm would they? If MSX1 games have some kinda cycle routine aimed at 4-on-a-row or if MSX1 games use the >4th sprites to wipe out other sprites (F1-spirit/bridges) then you're stuck already..
Umh, probably no. Most games (see konami) have a cycle routine always active.
When there is no sprite overflow, does not matter at all if the program is cycling sprites planes. So no difference, only advantages in having 8 sprites / line.

Unfortunately the problems are in the different color handling... Tongue

Van hap

Paragon (2042)

afbeelding van hap

26-02-2008, 23:49

You didn't read the 2nd half of his post. Games that use sprite overflow to hide spritelines will have graphical glitches, like:
- Athletic Land, falling into the water
- Antarctic Adventure, falling into a er.. dunno the word Tongue this: http://home.planet.nl/~haps/mei_antarc.png
- Konami's Tennis, 2nd player standing near the net

Van SLotman

Paragon (1242)

afbeelding van SLotman

27-02-2008, 01:10

That's why I said there should be some BIT that could be SET and activate 8 sprites on MSX2 on Screen2. If the game didnt work, you just dont set it. If it works, you set it and get rid of most sprites flicker. (and of course, the default behaviour when computer starts should be with this bit unset)

There's already a lot of bits to enable/disable sprites, change screen height from 212 to 192... so why not one to enable 8 sprites on a row on scr1/scr2?

Then on MSX2 you could remade the palettes on the loader, set this bit and voila'! improved game! Tongue

Van Manuel

Ascended (19270)

afbeelding van Manuel

27-02-2008, 09:03

hap: and MoG when you enter a shrine.

Van ARTRAG

Enlighted (6923)

afbeelding van ARTRAG

27-02-2008, 09:31

What about a true scr2 to scr5 upgrade?
The good candidate has :
1) no or page scrolling
2) limited movements of tiles in background or for interactive objects
3) limited dynamic tile set definition

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