TSX support in OpenMSX.

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Door Skyblasc

Expert (82)

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13-09-2021, 12:48

Hi,
Are there any plans for supporting TSX format in the official release of OpenMSX. I know there are some forks of OpenMSX that support the format, but I would like to know if there are plans to include it officially, or if there are any issues ( technical or otherwise) with this format that make this not possible.

Thanks!

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Van Sylvester

Hero (537)

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13-09-2021, 13:07

I asked the same thing some months ago on github and it won't be supported in the official release for now, see also: https://github.com/openMSX/openMSX/pull/1077#issuecomment-84...

Van saccopharynx

Master (165)

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14-09-2021, 01:30

Years ago, I was not too sure about TSX, but when I got familiarised with the format to analyse cassette tape protections, I really so the potential of TSX.

Van tfh

Prophet (2979)

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14-09-2021, 12:38

I also see this as a missed opportunity...

Van saccopharynx

Master (165)

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15-09-2021, 00:30

saccopharynx wrote:

Years ago, I was not too sure about TSX, but when I got familiarised with the format to analyse cassette tape protections, I really so the potential of TSX.

*saw

Van Skyblasc

Expert (82)

afbeelding van Skyblasc

15-09-2021, 08:52

Sylvester wrote:

I asked the same thing some months ago on github and it won't be supported in the official release for now, see also: https://github.com/openMSX/openMSX/pull/1077#issuecomment-847018782

Thanks for pointing this to me, @Sylvester.

I remember some discussion about the format years ago here in MRC and I was curious if it finally made it to OpenMSX or not.

Now I have the answer, but a bitter one....
Thanks

Van ducasp

Champion (461)

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16-09-2021, 00:09

I think the answer is that Natalia did it, and she does her own builds with the feature, so if you want, you can get it at:

https://github.com/imulilla/openMSX_TSXadv

What is bitter is that she and the OpenMSX did not come to terms to have that feature merged in the official build. I understand both parties frustration... On a free software, that strives for quality, if you release a feature, you are bound to support it, and as such you need to make sure that this new part of the software (since it is open source, hackers can look into it and craft malign tsx files) also won't allow exploits to happen... So, it seems that the OpenMSX team is more on a "if we add a new feature, more code to support, and we have limited time already to do so, including lots of ports, so it must be really, really simple to add and maintain it OR really, really importan to have it" vibe.

On the other hand, Natalia and all the people working on TSX are really passionate about it (and why shouldn't they be? it is a quite nice idea) but also got tired after lots and lots of discussions trying to come to terms and convince the OpenMSX team that TSX should be merged and maintained...

I understand both parties and feel sorry that they did not agreed on a way to have it on the official OpenMSX build, but hey, you can use Natalia's build... ;)

Van saccopharynx

Master (165)

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16-09-2021, 02:16

ducasp, the story is more or less as you mentioned. In addition, I think that it is also a bit about pride and not to want to admit that TSX, in some aspects, is better than WAV. See that OpenMSX is already immensely huge, and it keeps growing, so I think that TSX would just be a tinny part of the whole project if the format was supported!

Van Timmy

Master (165)

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16-09-2021, 02:53

Yes, as someone who has seen all these tape formats on the Spectrum before, I can say that TZX (and therefore TSX) is probably 0.01% better than WAV. It's a pretty terribly defined format (like XML), most of the Spectrum emulators have problems with arbitrary TZX files, and none of the emulators actually support the whole TZX format (because it changed several times). Basically the only reason it got popular was that the only archive site back then decided to use (some parts of) that format. That being said, at least a WAV file won't crash an emulator.

I'm sure that the MSX community would avoid the mistakes that were made during the TZX format. (No, just kidding.)

Van saccopharynx

Master (165)

afbeelding van saccopharynx

16-09-2021, 05:49

"That being said, at least a WAV file won't crash an emulator." And how do you know? If crashing an emulator does not entirely depend on the format, but also on the implementation that brings support to it!!!!

Van Skyblasc

Expert (82)

afbeelding van Skyblasc

16-09-2021, 09:54

Hi ducasp. Yes absolutely agree with you. I have recently discovered the fork and the TSX preservation job made by "tsxeslamejor.com" and so I was curious why it never made it to the official release. I have been using the TZX format a lot of times related to other systems as the ZX, as well as converted some tapes to that format myself and know the advantages from a preservation point of view over CAS.
As you say, of course, you can have WAVs and today the lenght of a WAV has not the same impact in the size of the file as it had in the emulation world of yesterday. But I found always reassuring the possibility of keeping a pure form of data that can reconstruct a WAVE, as if it was a MASTER TAPE, than depending of just analog recordings of various qualities.

But I, as well as you, can understand both parties positions regarding TSX adoption and I respect them. Just wanted to know the "why".

Thanks all for your answers.

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