Holland Bingo!

Van BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

13-09-2005, 10:30

wasn't easier to just mount the program ROM inside the computer, since the computer itself was adapted for it?

Van snout

Ascended (15187)

13-09-2005, 13:12

perhaps they were planning on releasing different versions of the game?

Van BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

13-09-2005, 16:17

maybe... I guess we'll never know now.

Van Gorgane

Resident (62)

15-09-2005, 22:40

Atleast this version stinks to high heaven. I don't know anything about programming, but even I laughed my ass of when i saw the code. The worst Basic on the planet.

Van ro

Scribe (4811)

01-07-2021, 10:07

what's the device called? Do we have a record of it?

Van gdx

Enlighted (5820)

01-07-2021, 14:03

https://www.msx.org/wiki/Philips_VG-8020_Holland_Bingo

I wanted to add the Hidden MSX tag to find it more easily since it is not a complete MSX but Mars2000 doesn't want. He deleted the tag immediately.

Van mars2000you

Enlighted (6346)

01-07-2021, 14:20

There is a MSX logo on the machine !!!

Van ren

Paragon (1930)

01-07-2021, 14:57

Perhaps you could put it in a category called 'Peculiar MSX Computers' or 'Special Purpose MSX Computers' ? (Where some machines may be in the 'Hidden' cat. as well.)

Van NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5970)

02-07-2021, 05:33

Oh dear... This one popping up again after years...

Ok, let's put it this way... During the years I've done a lot of work to preserve MSX history. This device does not belong to that category and if I could select, it would not even exist in this galaxy... Yet it does, and I can't help it.

Yes, I must say I've seen it... Just a normal 8020 with keyboard horribly butchered, but yet the software is even worse, totally extra awful... and I really mean extra awful... I mean, "go rather to play your Spectravideo Noughts & Crosses instead"-quality awful...

The only "interesting" thing missing from Wiki is that I think there was a huge 7-segment display attached to the printer port... but I have not seen one and I have no way to prove to my theory other than speculation and my long time ago burned code review made for personal purposes.

Sorry for even jumping in.

Van Manuel

Ascended (19055)

02-07-2021, 07:40

Hey man, this is just a very funny thing to me how many of these would have been made? Who owns the machine now?

Van sdsnatcher73

Prophet (3660)

02-07-2021, 08:18

To me it looks that these machines were just produced as normal VG8020’s for Philips. Some company in the Netherlands bought them and made the modifications (removed most keys and sticked a plate over the hole that was created. So it is not a special machine, just a normal MSX modified for a special usecase. The keys were probably removed to prevent people asking too many questions. Most people playing BINGO weren’t the youngest, imagine being born in the 1900-1920 range snd playing BINGO in the mid 1980’s on something you could not have imagined when you were young…

Van mars2000you

Enlighted (6346)

02-07-2021, 08:24

sdsnatcher73 wrote:

To me it looks that these machines were just produced as normal VG8020’s for Philips. Some company in the Netherlands bought them and made the modifications (removed most keys and sticked a plate over the hole that was created. So it is not a special machine, just a normal MSX modified for a special usecase. The keys were probably removed to prevent people asking too many questions. Most people playing BINGO weren’t the youngest, imagine being born in the 1900-1920 range snd playing BINGO in the mid 1980’s on something you could not have imagined when you were young…

In this case, the most appropriate tag would be "Modified MSX". But I think this machine will be alone in this category, so is it really useful?

Van NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5970)

02-07-2021, 08:35

I strongly believe "Gorgane" still has it... and now that I try to remember I believe the company at least had some roots on Norway... Oh, I hate everything that this represents, but I must say that after these years I would be little interested to see what is inside the cartridge... I can tell there is more than just a ROM, but I believe rest of it is just some extra complicated random number generator, maybe RTC or so... Not 100% sure though... IIRC you can't take a look inside without visible damage.

Van gdx

Enlighted (5820)

02-07-2021, 09:55

Was this Bingo cartridge dumped?

Mars2000 wrote:

In this case, the most appropriate tag would be "Modified MSX".

You don't need to create a tag only for that. For me it is a MSX disguised as bingo machine.
The fact that the logo remains does not change anything.

Van mars2000you

Enlighted (6346)

02-07-2021, 09:55

It has been dumped and I have even the BASIC listing!

That's why I've mentioned "ROM dumps made but machine not emulated because the cartridge contains extra hardware." in the Wiki.

Van gdx

Enlighted (5820)

02-07-2021, 09:57

Extra hardware is it for? Copy protection?

Van mars2000you

Enlighted (6346)

02-07-2021, 09:59

Re-read NYRIKKI explanations!

Van mars2000you

Enlighted (6346)

02-07-2021, 10:04

Your last update is wrong: The BASIC is a part of the ROM, not the full ROM!

Btw, these precisions should not be in the computer part, but in the software part!

Van gdx

Enlighted (5820)

02-07-2021, 10:13

Well, I think the wiki describes the machine better now. Do you agree mr. NYYRIKKI?

Van sdsnatcher73

Prophet (3660)

02-07-2021, 10:45

Well looking at the photos it is clear that even it is called Holland Bingo it is not from the Netherlands. There is a company name JOTAN A/S on the top right, seems like a Nordic versions of Inc. (I’ve seen AS used in Sweden or was it AB?). Also above the spacebar the description is TREKK, even without google translate it is clear that means DRAW.

Van mars2000you

Enlighted (6346)

02-07-2021, 13:22

Almost the same name:
https://www.largestcompanies.com/company/Jotun-AS-103002
https://www.sintef.no/projectweb/byefouling/consortium/jotun...

The A/S part can be omitted (see the logo) - A/S = Anonimt samfunn (Société Anonyme in French = public limited company (PLC) - while Ltd in English is actually the equivalent of "société à responsabilité limitée (Sarl)" in France)

Also better to use "Jotan" ! (no capital letters)

Van mars2000you

Enlighted (6346)

02-07-2021, 15:32

NYYRIKKI wrote:

The only "interesting" thing missing from Wiki is that I think there was a huge 7-segment display attached to the printer port... but I have not seen one and I have no way to prove to my theory other than speculation and my long time ago burned code review made for personal purposes.

When you try the ROM in RuMSX, this message from the emulator seems to confirm your theory:

"The currently running MSX program want to send data (print) to the parallel port. The emulator currently has no device connected to this port. Do you want to change this setting now?"

Van sdsnatcher73

Prophet (3660)

02-07-2021, 19:11

About the software, the screenshot shows a company called Reveal Software as developer. The cartridge shell is indeed the same as Micro Technology used (and it is even printed on the case), but my guess is they just bought some shells from MT or possibly MT produced the carts for Reveal.

Van mars2000you

Enlighted (6346)

02-07-2021, 19:25

Both Dutch companies. So your 2 guessings are possible, although I prefer the second possibility, just because Micro Technology has released several other cartridges.

Van gdx

Enlighted (5820)

03-07-2021, 10:14

Be careful not make the shortcut that a lot of people do. The screenshot shows that the game has copyrighted by Reveal Automation. This does not mean that it developed the game or that it is the distributor. For example, there are many games on MSX copyrighted by Sega, Taito, etc but developed and distribued by other compagnies and even by freelance developpers. Another example: Konami has developed some games that she did not distribute herself.

Van ren

Paragon (1930)

03-07-2021, 11:03

At least the Aucnet turboR could share a cat. with this machine IMO.

Van Samor

Prophet (2162)

03-07-2021, 19:02

It looks hilarious, but also like a waste of a perfectly fine computer.

Van Samor

Prophet (2162)

03-07-2021, 19:15

Also, where can I see this basic code? Colour me curious.

Van Manuel

Ascended (19055)

03-07-2021, 21:51

Some noteworthy text strings from the ROM:

 B190 - Bingo 1-90 - 15/5/87
,"1":
,"2":
,"":
,"5":
,"6":
,"7":
,"8":
,"":
"":R$
"1":S$
 BL(
 BC(
 BS(
JAAR
 ON KEY GOSUB 940
 KEY(1) ON
"STOP" 
"STOP" 
"  Ticket:                ";
,"      HELP-INFORMATION"
,"       ================"
,"":
,"":
," SPACE Generate Number"
," F1    Check a winning ticket"
," F2    Check generated numbers"
," F3    Help-information"
," F5    Game over (start new one)"
," F6    Game in one line   (sF1)"
," F7    Game in two lines  (sF2)"
," F8    Game in three lines(sF3)"
,"":
,"":
,"":
,"":
," Press F3"
,"MSX-I  HOLLAND-BINGO 1-90"
,"(C) 1987 REVEAL Automation BV"
,"Ver. 1.03b Juni 1987"
,"Serial ";:
"######";(JAAR
,"Selftest ...";
,"Ok"
,"Failed":
,"Press SPACE"
,"  F5   ";:
," continue"
,"  SPACE";:
," start new game"

There are 3 more or less vague hints that this software is written in the Netherlands:
1. The strongest: "BV" behind the company name points to a Dutch company ("Besloten Vennootschap")
2. "JAAR" is the Dutch word for 'year'. But this could be coincidence, I'm not sure why it is in the text.
3. "HOLLAND" Bingo

Van Manuel

Ascended (19055)

04-07-2021, 00:07

4. "Juni" is Dutch for June.

Van NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5970)

06-07-2021, 14:48

gdx wrote:

Well, I think the wiki describes the machine better now. Do you agree mr. NYYRIKKI?

Seems like ok to me.

Manuel wrote:

2. "JAAR" is the Dutch word for 'year'. But this could be coincidence, I'm not sure why it is in the text.

It is part of the serial number (711111 - 11111 + 16bit constant from ROM) routine:

0x9654 > 1890 PRESET(20,40):PRINT#1,"Ver. 1.03b Juni 1987"
0x967c > 1895 PRESET(20,50):PRINT#1,"Serial ";:PRINT#1,USING"######";(JAAR+BK)
0x96b0 > 1896 PRESET(20,80):PRINT#1,"Selftest ...";