What's wrong with openMSX?

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Por mars2000you

Enlighted (6097)

imagem de mars2000you

14-12-2003, 15:38


With the current openMSX architecture, it is quite impossible to have machine configs with built in MSX-Music and 'invalidate' (turn off) that MSX-Music later on. This is why we have those separate extensions. We may have to define something like a set of extensions that users could use.

I presumed that. So the first page of the frontend could resolve this problem for the common users that should must choose between boosted configurations (without possibility to invalidating for example Moonsound) or going to other pages of the frontend to choose himself a machine and the extensions that are interesting.

I think that the boosted configurations must have as extensions :
- 2 drives and 2 Mb Megaram in all configs
- 1 port cassette (except for Turbo-R configs)
- MSX-AUDIO, MSX-MUSIC (and stereo), Moonsound, 2Mb Memory Mapper, X-BASIC in all MSX 2 - 2+ - Turbo-R configs

Just a problem : when I've tested these configs, it seemed that Moonsound was incompatible with a Koreanse MSX 2 config ...

Another problem that you must see : not everyone knows all the specs of a machine. Imagine that someone wants to launch a specific machine, but ignores if this machine has 1 or 2 drives. So the second page should include also general configs with in each case 128 Kb RAM, 2 drives and 1 port cassette (this last one with exception, of course, for Turbo-R configs). Without being an expert, the advanced user could therefore choose more RAM, some Music extensions, a Megaram for example ....

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Por Manuel

Ascended (18393)

imagem de Manuel

16-12-2003, 20:32


I think that the boosted configurations must have as extensions :
- 2 drives and 2 Mb Megaram in all configs
- 1 port cassette (except for Turbo-R configs)
- MSX-AUDIO, MSX-MUSIC (and stereo), Moonsound, 2Mb Memory Mapper, X-BASIC in all MSX 2 - 2+ - Turbo-R configs

I'm working on making these configs at the moment. And I have some doubts:
- MSX Music or FM-PAC? (FM-PAC has more functionality, but requires the ROM!)
- put what in what slots?
- What slots should be external? (Not all software works in expanded slots!)
- For MSX1: what ROMs to use? Preferably an MSX1 with built in disk ROM, to save you from having to find 2 ROM sets (for system and 'external' disk drive...). In other words: what real system to base this on?
- Really want MSX Basic Kun? (What you call X-BASIC.) It takes yet another ROM to find for the user.

Por anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

imagem de anonymous

16-12-2003, 22:42

- MSX Music or FM-PAC? (FM-PAC has more functionality, but requires the ROM!)
- put what in what slots?
- What slots should be external? (Not all software works in expanded slots!)

MSX-MUSIC, RAM in slot 3-0 (I think ^^Wink, rest doesn't really matter, slots 1 & 2 external.

Por mars2000you

Enlighted (6097)

imagem de mars2000you

17-12-2003, 00:28

As you can imagine it, I have built most of my boosted configurations for openMSX by comparison with the choices that were made for NLMSX, see following pages on my site :

http://www.marsupone.com/msx/nlmsx9.htm

http://www.marsupone.com/msx/nlmsx10.htm

http://www.marsupone.com/msx/nlmsx11.htm

To answer more specifically to some of your questions :

- MSX 1 configurations need 2 or 3 roms :

Brasilian MSX : MSXBR.ROM - DISK.ROM
European MSX : MSX.ROM - DISK.ROM
Japanese MSX : MSXJ.ROM - DISK.ROM
Korean MSX : MSXKR.ROM - MSXHAN.ROM - DISK.ROM

About DISK.ROM : it's the "normal" DISK.ROM, I don't know if openMSX can emulate the special Brazilianse DISK.ROM

Real models that were the inspiration for NLMSX

Brazilian MSX : Gradiente Expert v1.1
Japanese MSX : National CF-3000
Korean MSX : Daewoo DPC-200
European MSX : a Philips with internal diskdrive

- Turbo-R configurations have built-in MSX-MUSIC and apart SRAM, it means therefore no FM-PAC !

- It's also the case for the last MSX 2+ models (it's also the choice of NLMSX, but in my boosted MSX 2+ configuration, I have choosen the FM-PAC option because it seemed more easy to work with openMSX)

- For MSX 2 models, there's only one choice : the FM-PAC rom

- The Turbo-Basic (or X-Basic) can appear as an useless extra, but I really appreciate the Sanyo MSX 2+ that have this extra ... so, why not extend this extra to all MSX 2, MSX 2+ and Turbo-R configs ... when you must use a program with _turbo on, it's really easy : no problem for a common user, he has not to search for the actions that he must take to get working such program, as the extra feature is already present !

Por Manuel

Ascended (18393)

imagem de Manuel

17-12-2003, 11:28

I think we will have to discern the MSX types better here.
MSX1 machines with diskROM... RAM shouldn't be in a subslot for MSX1 machines, since it will break a lot of compatibility. Where to put the diskROM? What diskROM to use, which will still work? Some diskROMs don't work in any slot. (I tried this with the National CF-3000...)

About FM-PAC: isn't the FMPAC commander a valuable extra feature, to save SRAM stuff to disk? Hmm, on the other hand, the SRAM is saved to the PC disk anyway, so someone could change/copy/remove that .pac file anyway.

I was planning to use the original ROMs of the machines the configs are based on. But mars2000you is talking about these 'generic' ROMs. (They're obviously not really generic, but taken from some machine and then renamed...) What would be best?

About the X-BASIC: as I already said, the disadvantage is that another extra ROM must be found by the user who is trying to get these extra configs working.

Por mars2000you

Enlighted (6097)

imagem de mars2000you

17-12-2003, 17:04

My opinion is divided about the choice between FM-PAC and MSX-MUSIC for MSX 2+ general config. What's sure is that you have no choice for MSX 2 (only the FM-PAC option) or Turbo-R (as all is integrated, including MSX-MUSIC and S-RAM)

About X-BASIC : I understand your opinion and as the way to the system roms is not such evident, it's maybe better to forget this feature for the common users in the general configs. Of course, an advanced user will be interested by the Sanyo MSX 2+ machines ! I suggest therefore that an explanation about that would be included in the openMSX manual.

Now the DISK.ROM problem. I don't know what general DISK.ROM is used by NLMSX in general configs. So I'll send to your e-mail the DISK.ROM that is used by NLMSX. So, you can compare with DISK.ROM of different machines. It's probably a Philips MSX 2 DISK.ROM for 2 drives, but I'm not sure ...

Por anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

imagem de anonymous

17-12-2003, 17:38

My opinion is divided about the choice between FM-PAC and MSX-MUSIC for MSX 2+ general config. What's sure is that you have no choice for MSX 2 (only the FM-PAC option) or Turbo-R (as all is integrated, including MSX-MUSIC and S-RAM)
turboR S-RAM != PAC SRAM

Por snout

Ascended (15184)

imagem de snout

17-12-2003, 17:46

You could of course always emulate the PAC (not FM-PAC, just PAC).

Por Manuel

Ascended (18393)

imagem de Manuel

17-12-2003, 19:50

You could of course always emulate the PAC (not FM-PAC, just PAC).

That's a nice idea! It doesn't require a ROM, and you can still save your game Smile

About the 'generic' DISK ROM: it doesn't seem to match any of the 23 (or so) original dumped disk ROMs I have here.

Anyone an idea about slot configs? What device in what slot to guarantee optimum compatibility? What ROMs to use? See my questions in the previous posting.

Por anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

imagem de anonymous

17-12-2003, 20:25

Are you sure PAC emulation doesn't require a PAC ROM? Tongue
Or is it simply I/O based?

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