SD-Snatcher Retranslation

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Por Grauw

Ascended (10164)

imagem de Grauw

04-02-2003, 20:35

Arf, I've come to realize that perhaps I didn't understand well... So you are going to retranslate Metal Gear *1*, and not Metal Gear 2??? Hmmmz...

Btw, in that case I still wonder, in what way is ripping the scripts from SD-Snatcher so much different from ripping the Metal Gear ones? One thing I know for sure is that retranslating SD-Snatcher won't be an easy job. Ripping is the easy part. As Guyver said, there is a limited amount of space, so in order to get the additional room the English translation will require without having to make a '4th disk' (if that is even feasible) you would have to program a compression of some sorts, I believe the same as Daniel has done with the Snatcher translation. Anyways it'll require some serious disassembling and rewriting of some code.

Be sure to know what you're doing is feasible before asking Takamichi to translate things. I doubt he'll appreciate it if in the end it turns out too difficult and the project is dropped, and his work will be for nothing. Keep in mind that in Japanese culture it's very 'hard' to say no to a request, so only ask him if you're sure you can do it. That's my advice at least ^_^.

~Grauw

Por BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

imagem de BiFi

04-02-2003, 20:36

Well, actually the first one saying the translation could be better wasn't from me, but I do agree with him since the first translation had a bit too much silly jokes that could have been more useful filling with translated texts.

Snout put in the suggestion to co-operate on the project. The team I'm in has a translator. The general idea is a more complete translation. Who is working on it, doesn't really matter. As long as there is progress in the translation and adapting the disk(-image)s.

Also, we have the tools Maarten ter Huurne used with Solid Snake to make libraries and stuff to replace common words by a single code or something.

Por snout

Ascended (15184)

imagem de snout

04-02-2003, 22:17

Actually, I kind of liked those 'silly' jokes. Wink

Por Vance

Ambassador (0)

imagem de Vance

05-02-2003, 02:05

Gillian is indeed the father, Jaime the mother.

The translation from Girian to Gillian is a pretty justifiable one, seeing as the Japanese language originally had no L sound in the vocabulary, and approximations for many foreign sounds are now in their language. To suggest that we shouldn't change the sounds coming this way is to suggest that when Kojima made Policenauts, he should have kept the European pronunciations instead of turning "Ed" into "Edo" and "Joseph" into "Jiyozefu".

Por BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

imagem de BiFi

05-02-2003, 08:48

Actually, I kind of liked those 'silly' jokes. Wink
Don't get me wrong, so do I. The <GRAPJE> thing (SYD GARDEN in many colors) could have been better used for the translation IMHO. Since every color change requires 3 bytes such a thing takes up some space.

Por Dr. J

Supporter (15)

imagem de Dr. J

06-02-2003, 12:38

Remember, the best type of compression is in language itself.

If you can express concepts in less words, it will make the translation succinct and enjoyable. Quick example from Metal Gear:

(Takamichi's original translation, no proofreading)
--Bldg 2, floor 2, cell next to rocket launcher room
I'm saved!

Frequency 12048 should let you contact Jennifer the resistance.

Jennifer offers direct supports.

But she has high esteem.

Keep your rank highest all the time otherwise she won't respond you.

------------

If proofread in a literal fashion, it would read like this:
--Bldg 2, floor 2, cell next to rocket launcher room
I'm saved!

The frequency of 120.48 should allow you to make contact with Jennifer, who is with the resistance.

Jennifer offers direct support.

But she holds herself in high esteem.

Keep your rank at the highest level, all of the time, because she won't respond to you otherwise.

------------

In the game this will appear as:
--Bldg 2, floor 2, cell next to rocket launcher room
I'm saved!

Use waveband 120.48 to contact resistance member Jennifer.

Jennifer offers direct support, but she’s very stuck-up.

Keep your rank high at all times, or she won't assist you.

------------

That's an atypical example, but it demonstrates how conservative use of the English language can provide for more room. You have to prioritize. Since the message above was simply information (and provided by a faceless prisoner character), it's best to save space whenever possible and make use of it for when you really need it. Luckily, since Metal Gear can be translated by effectively doubling the rom space, we didn't pay much heed to space limitations.

-Dr. J

Por Grauw

Ascended (10164)

imagem de Grauw

06-02-2003, 16:26

Ofcourse that is what most translators already do. Such long and descriptive sentences aren't easy to read anyways, it is simply the difference between a direct and a more 'free' translation. However even when you do that, the Japanese text is still more compact. Oasis wasn't exactly over-descriptive in their SD-Snatcher translation and still they said size was a problem, and that they left out some details because they just couldn't fit it in anymore. Often you get a little lucky and they use 2 bytes/character, in which you can put twice as much european characters in, however the downside of that is that they're probably using quite some kanji (which are even more compact than kana).

Anyways, it is indeed true that in the Metal Gear case it is simply a matter of increasing the ROM size. However with SD-Snatcher it isn't that simple, and that is why I mentioned it. Actually text compresses really well and that's why I really think it'd be best to consider using compression. That way you won't have to leave out details from the translation to save space, and you can just translate the way you want and is best, instead of translating based on size limitations.

~Grauw

Por Dr. J

Supporter (15)

imagem de Dr. J

06-02-2003, 20:19

The other reason for keeping the prisoner text short is aesthetic - you don't want to subject the player to mind-numbingly long conversations in such a small window.

As for the whole bit about compression, I agree, that's going to be the best (only?) option to fit massive amounts of text in SD-Snatcher. Of course, I'm not a programmer, so...

-Dr. J

Por snout

Ascended (15184)

imagem de snout

06-02-2003, 22:40

The point is ... would putting a massive ammount of text in the game improve the experience of the game, or is it just a couple of details that are being fixed for the real freaks...

Personally, I did not mind the problems BiFi mentioned at all (well the E attached to END was kinda annoying, but I got that fixed already). Some of them even made me laugh quite a lot (like the ....GRAPJE!!!!... and the Rot op!!! Tongue )

Por BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

imagem de BiFi

07-02-2003, 11:13

Personally, I did not mind the problems BiFi mentioned at all (well the E attached to END was kinda annoying, but I got that fixed already).
I'm simply someone who is quite a perfectionist. I know that doesn't mean the rest has to be as well.

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