MSX dimensions

Prophet (2619)

08-02-2007, 21:13

Maybe it is this one. What do you think?

Hoho!, and with a wooden case!, cool!

Anyway, the National still seems the bulkiest machine I've never seen. If it has the same metal case as the SONY could also be HEAVY!

Por Alex

Master (205)

08-02-2007, 22:33

But what makes the OCM not a real MSX is that you can't attach your own hw components as you can on a real MSX. A big part of the MSX standard defines how devices are put together and how to interface the bus. In this regard the OCM is as little MSX as other emus and the flexible but well specified hw structure of the MSX standard is the most important part of the MSX. So the OCM will never be a real MSX, how much people work on bug fixes and other stuff. Its simply missing the heart of the MSX and there is nothing to do about it.

Never the less, the OCM is an extremely cool emulator and its really cool that MSX-A is actually manifactuing it.

I do not understand this remark. Can you give a specific example of which device can be attached to a 'real' MSX but not to the OCM? I have succesfully used following cartridges in my OCM:

1) Nemesis 3
2) Stereo music module (with 2 MSX audio processors)
3) Sunrise CF ATA-IDE interface
4) MK SCSI interface

Por dvik

Prophet (2200)

08-02-2007, 23:06

First let me state that I don't want to criticize any of the work in any way. Its a really awesome achievement.

Real carts work fine in the OCM, much better than in a PC emulator (with the gamereader), I guess as good as a real MSX. If there are carts that don't work I'm sure its more likely to be bugs in e.g. the VDP than in the cartridge interface. But the OCM doesn't have a 'real' MSX engine so you won't be able to use the OCM as the base for your own MSX, e.g. replace the emulated VDP with a real V9938. On a real MSX its easy to replace and extend the inner part of the machine with your own hw stuff. The OCM is just a black box MSX emulator with some of the external MSX interfaces. I really don't see how anyone can think that the OCM is a 'real' MSX machine. It is just an emulator like the PC emulators. It is imo opinion impossible to do a real MSX in VHDL, or I should say at least as impossible as doing a real PC based MSX.

Note that I'm not in any way criticizing the design, implementation, functionallity or features of the OCM. I'm only saying it is an emulator and not a real MSX, it is not in any way a negative thing.

Por pitpan

Prophet (3155)

08-02-2007, 23:36

Then, if we try to separate the different MSX generations, my vote for the biggest / most heavy when it comes to MSX1 is the Pioneer Palcom PX7: metal casing, separate keyboard, built-in stereo speakers within the case, tons of different connectors, extra circuits for superimpossing, etc. A big thing! The only known issue is that it only has 32 KB RAM!

Por poke-1,170

Paragon (1783)

09-02-2007, 05:18

what's the msx with laserdisc then ?

Por dvik

Prophet (2200)

09-02-2007, 07:21

Did Panasonic or other companies ever plan to do a desktop like TR (like the National FS-5500 or something)?

Por pitpan

Prophet (3155)

09-02-2007, 09:18

I do not include the laserdisc player (LD8000 or others) in my decision, because it is an *optional* part of the MSX setup. Pioneer PX7 is big enough to get the award to the heaviest computer. But, on the other side, several Brazilian machines have hard casing and separate keyboards.

Por Manuel

Ascended (19303)

09-02-2007, 09:58

It'll be the real MSX when it includes all the bugs/limitations of the original MSX. Same crashes, same shit -> same machine

But as far as it is an emulation, even a hardware emulation, it can only include "documented" features/bugs. All the "undocumented/unknown" issues won't be there, because it is not using the original chips with that genuine problems.

Does this make sense for you?

No. Some real MSXes have certain bugs, other real MSXes have other bugs. But both you call real MSXes. I'm not sure if OCM is a real MSX, but I don't think the above is a good argument.

Is a real MSX with separate chips a real MSX? You probably say yes. Is an MSX with integrated chips a real MSX (think MSX-ENGINE)? You probably say yes. So, why is an MSX with everything on a single chip (FPGA) not a real MSX? It has all connectors the spec specifies. And it has chips that are compatible with the spec (if the VHDL code is accurate enough)... Exactly where does it become a real MSX or where does it become an emulator?

To be honest, I can't tell what is different between the OCM and a real MSX.... it could be considered a real MSX with possibly some bugs (like other real MSXes).

Por Samor

Prophet (2168)

09-02-2007, 10:31

The OCM is a HW emulator (albeit one with cartridge slots), but it's officially licensed and follows the MSX standard (minus the infamous cas port, that is ), so you could consider it a real MSX, besides the HW differences.
This is actually the only valid and good argument for the OCM being a real MSX. But that also applies to MSXPLAYer as well. Other than that its just an emulator.

The difference being that MSXPLAYer was specifically given a different logo to indicate it's a different kind of thing... so that's basically MSXA admitting MSXPLAYer is an official MSX product but not a real MSX. The OCM however bears the MSX logo without "PLAYer", which means they intend it as a real MSX. So, from a licensing POV, it's a real MSX I guess.

Kinda like how it works with the new VW Beetle and the new Mini Cooper.

Por poke-1,170

Paragon (1783)

09-02-2007, 17:36

I guess also they wouldn't bother putting things on separate chips like in the old days,
when our current technology allows us to cram the whole hardware into one chip.
Bringing down one circuit board into a chip is far more efficient I guess, I don't think
msx-a would seriously consider having everything on outdated (maybe out of print)
chips again. SO maybe, JUST maybe, MSX-a determines what the standard is,
not an outdated 80's concept. The casport once was included because well,
from atari to commodore, cassetteplayers were a convenient way to load and
save programs. luckily that got ditched for diskdrives, and luckily diskdrives
got ditched for whatever you got now (usb, CF etc)...