Price charts and history for MSX games? Go vote on https://www.pricecharting.com

Por defdanny

Expert (66)

imagem de defdanny

16-10-2019, 23:52

Hi all,
last weekend I visited a fair/flea market for old video games/consoles/home computers. I was arguing with a seller about his overpriced ideas. When I was back home I thought to myself: "There must be a better way to identify market prices for MSX games than the 'ebay sold items search"....
I imagined a website with nice charts and price history based on sellings from different platforms. I even dreamed to develop something like that for myself, maybe using the ebay API...
Well, a friend of mine told me then about PriceCharting ( https://www.pricecharting.com ), a webservice that features exactly what I was thinking of... Except one thing: It does not feature any MSX stuff! :(

I think we should change this!
They have a voting for new feature ideas there, and I am not the first one who would like to see MSX support on their website. So, here is my call for your support on this idea!

Go vote:
https://pricecharting.userecho.com/communities/1/topics/266-...

Maybe this will bring "our system" to their mind!

Entrar ou registrar-se para comentar

Por hamlet

Scribe (2532)

imagem de hamlet

17-10-2019, 10:52

Nice initiative and voted. Although I do not belive in sellers who accept this plattform price as long as there is ebay.

Por Stt1

Champion (437)

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17-10-2019, 13:25

Voted too. Not a bad idea to have some another opinion than Ebay. However, I'm not expecting dramatically different price level there...

Por BitSquad

Resident (35)

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17-10-2019, 19:43

Eeeee... I'm a bit wary of how using that site could affect the collecting of MSX games.

I've seen a lot of price manipulation, shill bidding, and other unscrupulousness in video game sales over the past few years. People will do things like buy up all of the copies of a game and then falsely bid an auction to ridiculous numbers so that price will go on pricecharting and scare people into buying.

We're dealing with a platform where a relatively well-known MSX game comes up for sale less often than Stadium Events. I don't think it would be a good idea to advertise the values of these games on a site that is literally made for people to make money from video games.

If I really really want a particular Compile game and I'm willing to pay twice of what it's worth, I don't want the next person to have to do that. That doesn't mean it's the value of the game, just what I was willing to pay. But that's the way that used video game pricing goes these days when people can see the previous sale prices. Right now it is possible to look at historic YAJ pricing but it's very obscure to find and the process is obtuse. Unless there's a site that I don't know about.

I would support a price list that was moderated by actual MSX fans encouraging fair pricing for both sides and more directed to our niche community than to the video game buying/selling market as a whole.

Por defdanny

Expert (66)

imagem de defdanny

18-10-2019, 12:07

Thank you all for the support so far.
I just checked the website and they marked the idea as "planned". Nice little success!

@BitSquad: thank you for your points, I fear you are right in some. One should better understand their way of price calculating. Also, it seems like they focus on US market. In their FAQs they describe the methodology
https://www.pricecharting.com/page/methodology
and state, that their data source is eBay and their on marketplace (which I did not know).
Which eBay country are they looking at? US? Worldwide?

So, maybe it would be a nice project to rebuild this service especially for MSX and the european market.
I like the idea, that not only ebay as data source but also other sources would feed this price database.
This would be a lot of manual effort (e.g. checking msx.org trading or other forums)...

Por BitSquad

Resident (35)

imagem de BitSquad

18-10-2019, 18:53

First off, I want to say that I recognize that your intention is to help the MSX community by making things easier, and I do appreciate that intention, even if I don't agree on the methodology.

I noticed on that thread that they said they want to start with NTSC games and add Europe and Japan later. From context it appears that they mean to start with games released in the United States, not realizing that there weren't any.

There's a lot that I could say about video game buying and selling because I have had a lot of experience with this in recent years as a buyer and seller both. I'll try to keep it somewhat brief though.

I think the main point to realize is that there likely isn't even enough supply of MSX games for the current user base. I'm relatively new to it myself as I've only been collecting a few years, so I definitely don't want to be a hypocrite and say that we should discourage new gamers from getting into this system. I do think though that we should, if possible, try to avoid things that will invite more scalpers and dealers who don't collect MSX themselves. I don't have anything against somebody buying more games than they want so they have extras for trade or sell. I do that myself and I'd imagine most collectors do when they see a good deal. Some people import games from Japan and then resell them to a western market for higher prices because not everybody wants to import. That's their niche and I'm not really hating on that.

What really bugs me and makes the game collecting process less fun are what I call scalpers, and those are people who buy games up at full-price and try to manipulate the market to drive that price up. I'm talking about stuff like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Magical-Chase-Turbografx-16-Hu-card...

There's no record of anybody paying near that much for that game without box. To be in line with what people have paid, it should be around half that. But it only got that way to begin with because of every greedy person who got a copy thinking that they could double the price. It wasn't because the price naturally increased little by little over time. It was because the majority of people who got that game and realized it was valuable decided to squeeze every penny they could out of a potential buyer without concern of how it would affect the hobby or other people who want to buy the game in the future. It's greedy and selfish and that describes the majority of the video game flipping market. Maybe even humanity as a whole but that's a different topic.

For MSX, I consider a game to be very common if it comes up for sale once a month or more. If a game only comes up for sale around once a year, like say, Yurei-Kun, I'd call it uncommon. Not even rare for this platform. Compare this to NES where a game that comes up for sale once a year would cost more than $10,000.

If any of these video game scalpers got ahold of a copy of something like Nausicaa and knew how rare it was, I can guarantee you they would put it up for sale for $10k. Then you'd see any other listings of the game creep up toward that price. The next person listing the game might put it up for $5,000 and think that they're giving you a deal.

Video game prices RARELY come down. I mean, look at Contra. That game is very common. Why is it 30k yen? It's hard to say. I don't think it should cost that much considering how common it is. Same with the Metal Gear games. But people a long time ago bid the prices up to that range and I honestly don't expect that they'll EVER go down now. Just up.

Cataloging just eBay sale prices is even worse, because eBay prices are way inflated. Next, people will start looking at the Pricecharting prices and thinking those represent that actual value of the game and prices will go up even in Japan.

It's a little bit of work and a bit of a crapshoot to value MSX games currently, but I think that probably keeps the price down. Right now, you kind of have to know what a game is and value it based on how much YOU want it. When sale price becomes widely known, people aren't going to care if they want it or not, they'll just consider if they think they can make money off it and buy it for that purpose.

I just think the risks greatly outweigh the possible benefits, but I appreciate the sentiment.

Por uberjack

Master (217)

imagem de uberjack

21-10-2019, 16:54

BitSquad wrote:

Video game prices RARELY come down. I mean, look at Contra. That game is very common. Why is it 30k yen? It's hard to say. I don't think it should cost that much considering how common it is. Same with the Metal Gear games. But people a long time ago bid the prices up to that range and I honestly don't expect that they'll EVER go down now. Just up.

Prices of games like Castlevania, Metal Gear and Contra are overinflated, because they're popular franchises, and there are many who, while not full-blown collectors, collect things pertaining to that specific franchise. Those sort of inflations seem to always be temporary, and will likely be happening on and off. I can't recall how many times I've seen someone sell a Metal Gear game, clicked through to their "Other items", only to see a bunch of other Metal Gear stuff. People routinely buy up a bunch games belonging to a franchise, then get bored and sell them.

On the actual topic, I'm not really a fan of cataloguing value of video games by listing them on a website. Like others have said, that introduces a feedback loop, where the site will start driving the price of the game up, and no one wins. The reason I love this forum is because many people who frequent here sell their games for prices that make sense to them, and those prices are often very fair. eBay used to be great too, because someone would put up a game for a relatively low amount and it would get bid up until someone wanted it more than everyone else. Vast majority of everything that's on eBay these days is Buy It Now for exorbitant sums, and people relist auctions with overpriced start prices ad nauseam.

Collecting for me is somewhat private, and I'm really only interested in what I paid for the title, and for the price that a fair (read: low-starting) auction will net for it. The last thing I want is for MSX games to end up like NES/SNES games, where you no longer have any idea in what you're buying, because someone stuffs the boxes with 3rd party warranty/Nintendo Power flyers.

Por defdanny

Expert (66)

imagem de defdanny

22-10-2019, 10:11

@uberjack @BitSquad: I don't understand the arguments about driving game prices up?
pricecharting.com will only register ebay auctions of sold items, not of skyhigh supercalifragilisticexpialidocious price whishes from those "buy it now" morons...
did I miss something?

Por BitSquad

Resident (35)

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22-10-2019, 16:20

Quote:

I don't understand the arguments about driving game prices up?

I have an example that I think will illustrate the risks.

A couple of years ago, I saw a copy of Aliens (the Square game) pop up on eBay, which was selling for around $40-$50 USD in Japan. I watched the listing blow past what I expected it to go for until it ended somewhere around $250 USD. Obviously that person didn't know what the game was worth because it is common for an MSX game and if they would have waited a week or two they could have bought another copy for $50. But, because they bid that auction to such a ridiculous price, people in Japan were trying to get $200 or more for that game for like a year. It finally settled back down, but it settled to double of what it used to be, and now it's running $80-$100.

Had that price been recorded on Pricecharting, it wouldn't even go away until somebody sold another copy on eBay. No telling how long that would take. Even though 50 copies may have been sold on YAJ since then, I don't know if even one has been sold on eBay again.

eBay is not really the market for MSX and the prices on eBay do not reflect the value of the items. eBay prices are overinflated, but if you advertise those prices as the values of the games then people in Japan are going to look at that list and say, "oh, I can get $XXX for that game", and Japanese prices rise to match the eBay prices, then the eBay prices themselves have to rise again to match. Then the Pricecharting price goes up and the whole thing repeats.

If you would have said that we should record sale prices from Yahoo Auctions Japan, I would have said that is probably a bad idea which might lead to prices being driven up for a system that's already EXTREMELY difficult and expensive to collect for. If you say that we should record sale prices from eBay only, then I say that's DEFINITELY a bad idea that will most CERTAINLY lead to prices being driven up.

Por uberjack

Master (217)

imagem de uberjack

23-10-2019, 09:20

BitSquad wrote:

If you would have said that we should record sale prices from Yahoo Auctions Japan, I would have said that is probably a bad idea which might lead to prices being driven up for a system that's already EXTREMELY difficult and expensive to collect for.

You've clearly never looked at Neo-Geo AES Wink

Por BitSquad

Resident (35)

imagem de BitSquad

27-10-2019, 14:59

If anybody else, like me, thinks that creating a price list for Japanese MSX games from eBay listings is a terrible idea, please go to the link in the original post and tell them. Right now it appears that I'm the only dissenting voice and I doubt that's going to be enough to stop them.

At least one of the users just wants to do this so they can add the games to their collection list on the site. I feel this price list is likely to hurt all of us worldwide, and all that anybody stands to gain is that they can put their MSX games on a list.

You don't have to sign up for an account. It can be done anonymously.

I know of a website that shows the sale prices of YAJ auctions for the past 13 years. If somebody wanted to build a price list for the Japanese games with actually useful prices, then mining the data from that place would be where to start.