MSXdev'21 is ON

MSXdev'21 is ON

por MSXdev Team em 30-12-2020, 17:29
Tópico: Challenges
Idiomas:

BAM! Just like that, the new MSXdev kicks off. This popular comp, which has been running since 2003, enters its 17th edition already. For the guts and the glory, you are welcome to join. So coders, on your marks please!

The annual MSXdev compo ain't no stranger to MSX regulars. It has been running steadily for years and dropped a ton fresh works of video gaming right into the worldwide MSX scene. Just have a look at last year's results, when we were presented with many a modern classic for our beloved platform.

Once again, this year's rules are simple - create a fresh new MSX1 compatible game. This means:

  • CPU: Zilog Z80 running at 3.58 Mhz
  • VDP: TMS9918/TMS9928 or compatible video processor
  • PSG: AY-3-8910 or compatible sound chip
  • Cassette interface: 1200/2400 baud
  • RAM: 16 KB (non memory-mapped)
  • VRAM: 16 KB

So, no expansions of any kind, just a first generation MSX as it was conceived. For more in-depth information, you can check this page on the official MSXdev'21 web site. All submitted games are considered freeware. They will become available at the official MSXdev web site.

While joining is ofcourse the biggest part of the fun, a contest wouldn't be a complete without any prices to win. As always, there are no set prices. MSXdev depends on donations and donors. Anybody willing to chime in, can donate through Paypal. From this budget, the prize money will be divided.

Furthermore, MSXdev accepts sponsors to add prizes to the list. These can be software, hardware, subscriptions to magazines, t-shirts... you name it.People who donate either money or tangible prizes are also allowed to specify a certain category to which they wish the reward will go to. Think along the vein of "Most Original Game", "Best Soundtrack", "Highest Ranked Shooter", etcetera. If you're interested in sponsoring the contest in any way, please contact the team.

Now, for the important dates:

  • Start: January 1st, 2021
  • Deadline to submit your entry: August 31st, 2021
  • Jury deliberation: September 1st, 2021
  • Deadline for jury reports: September 30th, 2021
  • Final results made public: October 15th, 2021

MSXdev'21 will announce entries and its running status on the official web site. Besides that, you can expect summary updates here at the MRC as well.

Good luck to all contestants, and game on!

Relevant link: MSXdev'21 web site

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Comentários (105)

Por Danjovic

Master (191)

imagem de Danjovic

30-12-2020, 17:47

Hey Count me in this year!

Por MSXdev Team

Master (224)

imagem de MSXdev Team

30-12-2020, 17:49

What a quick reaction! That's great, Danjovic. Please be welcome. Smile

Por ro

Scribe (4451)

imagem de ro

30-12-2020, 18:06

I was sooo waiting for this to happen. Yeah!

Por Uninteresting

Master (219)

imagem de Uninteresting

30-12-2020, 18:25

I am not sure if I can find the time, energy and inspiration to participate. At least there's plenty of time until the deadline...

The rules say, "All entries must be unreleased games". I have considered lightly updating the game engine I made for my MSXdev'20 entry (Jäästä) and reusing that for a new adventure game (i.e., the difference will be in the graphics, scripts, text and sound, if I add some this time). Will this be acceptable? (I have no aspirations to win, only to bolster the number of participants if I can.)

In the same vein, will games made with AGD be accepted?

Por tfh

Prophet (2931)

imagem de tfh

30-12-2020, 18:26

Cool! Another MSXDev edition! Looking forward to the new entries!

Por mzoran

Master (131)

imagem de mzoran

30-12-2020, 18:26

Great news ! Does it mean that this year if we donate we can still submit an entry ?

Por valkyre

Hero (552)

imagem de valkyre

30-12-2020, 19:00

Fantastic news.

Por santiontanon

Paragon (1433)

imagem de santiontanon

30-12-2020, 20:12

Wow, this came way earlier than expected!! Great news indeed!! I'll try my best to join. I am not sure I will have the amount of time I had in the last editions, but at least I'll try to submit something small (I have been wanting to do a BASIC game for a long time, so, maybe this is the excuse I needed!) Smile

Por MSXdev Team

Master (224)

imagem de MSXdev Team

30-12-2020, 20:39

Uninteresting wrote:

I have considered lightly updating the game engine I made for my MSXdev'20 entry (Jäästä) and reusing that for a new adventure game (i.e., the difference will be in the graphics, scripts, text and sound, if I add some this time). Will this be acceptable?

Sure! If the content is all new, any reasonable person would consider this a new game.

Uninteresting wrote:

In the same vein, will games made with AGD be accepted?

No problem here, either. Any third party tool/environment/whatnot is permitted.
Issues such as licences or usage of code snippets are between the original developer of the tool/code and the creator of the entry who utilizes it.
Please note that the MSXdev Team will refrain from participating in any discussions that may ensue from this, as it's the responsibility of the participator.

We look forward to your next offering. Smile

Por ray2day

Hero (662)

imagem de ray2day

30-12-2020, 21:21

Count me in! Cool

Por albs_br

Champion (315)

imagem de albs_br

30-12-2020, 21:32

WOW! Great news.

Please consider including MSX 2 or above, many people demand this option.

Por rjp

Master (193)

imagem de rjp

30-12-2020, 21:44

Sure! Why not a category where we can have "MSX 2 and above"?

Por Pencioner

Scribe (1462)

imagem de Pencioner

30-12-2020, 23:51

rjp wrote:

Sure! Why not a category where we can have "MSX 2 and above"?

Time for another contest, MSX2Dev? Hannibal (kidding)

Por sd_snatcher

Prophet (3453)

imagem de sd_snatcher

31-12-2020, 01:44

I love this contest, but can't contain myself to nag about the MSX1-only restriction. I wonder if other platforms did the same:

  • SMSdev contest: But we'll only accept the SG-1000 mk1/mk2 specs
  • AmigaDev contest: But we'll only accept the OCS specs.
  • PCdev contest: But we'll only accept the IBM-5150 specs
  • SpeccyDev contest: But we'll only accept entries for the ZX-Spectrum 48 specs
  • CPCdev contest: But we'll only accept the CPC-464 specs
  • PC-98dev: But we'll only accept entries for the first PC-9801 / 5MHz / 8 colors / beeper model

Running Naked in a Field of Flowers

Por DamnedAngel

Master (226)

imagem de DamnedAngel

31-12-2020, 01:49

For the record, while I understand this demand extra effort for the organizers and jury, I also support the MSX2 category if possible.
In fact, I'd love to see a MSX-DOS category, allowing several MB games with in-game content loading and full use of mappers. But maybe that's just me.

Por santiontanon

Paragon (1433)

imagem de santiontanon

31-12-2020, 05:29

I don't know about the other systems, but in the CPCRetroDev (that has been going on for many years), actually they do indeed ONLY allow CPC-464 specs!

Although I do not have a very strong opinion on whether there should be an MSX2 category, the years that this category has existed, it received VERY little attention (3 games at most if I remember correctly). So, I think that a separate MSX2 competition with longer terms (e.g. once every 2 years) might be more appropriate? (again, I don't have a strong opinion, and I am fine either way haha, just proposing possibilities Smile )

Por reidrac

Expert (98)

imagem de reidrac

31-12-2020, 13:34

The CPC Reto Dev releases the games in a cassette, so 464 and single load is a good fit (I kind of recall there were more reasons, but that's a good one!).

I guess "commenting" the rules is classic as the MSX Big smile

One thing: the games won't be public domain as this news note is saying, they'll be free to download and play, but the authors retain copyright and nobody else has permissions to make a physical release, isn't it? Freeware IS NOT public domain.

If Santi can sign a document saying he won't submit a game (so we simple devs can have a chance!), I may think about submitting something! LOL

{mod: You are correct about the difference between freeware versus public domain. The newspost has been edited. Thank you}

Por tfh

Prophet (2931)

imagem de tfh

31-12-2020, 11:01

reidrac wrote:

If Santi can sign a document saying he won't submit a game (so we simple devs can have a chance!), I may think about submitting something! LOL

Running Naked in a Field of Flowers Running Naked in a Field of Flowers Running Naked in a Field of Flowers Running Naked in a Field of Flowers ROFL!

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9883)

imagem de wolf_

31-12-2020, 11:03

In my opinion:

  • All MSX generations are old by now. It's not like a specific older generation should need extra support.
  • In this age of emulation, few people care about which generation it runs on, or which additional hardware it needs (sound chips e.g.).
  • Using a higher generation MSX might actually speed up development. if you want scrolling, it's easier to just scroll than to do tricks with tiles.
  • You can compare games among generations if the jury knows a thing or two about development. There are plenty MSX2 games that would loose from Nemesis 2, to name something.
  • More RAM means you can choose to make games in which you build something, like sim-games where you need to store large maps. So, letting the go of the RAM limitation implies more game genres to choose from.
  • Developing a game takes time anyway. The difference between MSX1, MSX2 or higher, doesn't mean that much. It's likely that drawing without pixel limitations even speeds up the process.
  • Fear of large projects that won't be finished may be true, but can't be linked to the amount of RAM, the videochip and audiochip. The only factor that makes a game big, and maybe too big to be finished in time, is the game concept itself. Shalom, Maze of Galious, the Nemesis saga etc. etc. are all likely to be a development risk, yet would all fit the contest specs. Plenty o' puzzle games for MSX2, with slick graphics and FM-PAC music, would not be a development risk yet wouldn't be valid for this contest. Just allowing freeform doesn't mean that everyone starts making an 8-disk RPG, grinding to a halt halfway the first disk.
  • Code, level mapping and gameplay testing usually take most of the time, not the artwork. It's not likely that MSX2-graphics and FM/SCC-music are the reason why a game is postponed or cancelled.

Well, there you have it, the same bullets each year again and again. But awell, whatever. Hannibal

Por viejo_archivero

Paragon (1395)

imagem de viejo_archivero

31-12-2020, 11:23

Great to see the contest is back on track! Also glad that rules keep up the spirit that made the MSXdev huge and that preserve its legacy. Count Relevo in! Running Naked in a Field of Flowers

Por mariocavalcanti

Expert (94)

imagem de mariocavalcanti

31-12-2020, 12:12

Great news! Big smile

Por ren

Paragon (1855)

imagem de ren

31-12-2020, 15:17

Very noice..

My ¢2:

* a community/dev feeler may be (might have been) a good/interesting thing to align the rules <> dev (and to a lesser degree: community) wishes (perhaps you did that (or are simply confident about the classic rules), but I haven't seen it (here));

* instead of 'blunty' dismissing > minimal specs content as (quote): "In addition, it is allowed to make use of additional MSX hardware but they will not be taken into account when determining the final quality of the game by the voters. The goal of the contest is producing fine quality games that could be fully enjoyed in any MSX system.": a game that takes advantage of >= MSX2 (e.g. improved palette), or (sound) expansions is nice/interesting. You could consider to give well executed extras bonus points (that have some weight in the final verdict)? (This could cater to the > MSX1/minimum wishes among some as well.)

  (The concept of a developer/team has a choice which route to take to score (extra) points is an interesting one IMO.)

* I'm missing (perhaps) a description of how the entries will be judged (what criteria, weight, etc.) (of course one can make an educated guess already..) (but perhaps essential when considering aforementioned concept Wink);

* I remember an edition in the past where one could donate in relation to a specific 'trait', like 'best soundtrack'. Is that applicable this edition?

* 'MSXdev Team' === (a subset of) the MRC staff I guess?

* I like the logo, noice!

gl/hf!

Por AnsiStar

Expert (86)

imagem de AnsiStar

31-12-2020, 15:47

Hurra!! I have so much sympathy with this contest! Although I`m not able to join, because the last time i programmed was about 35 years ago. Basic! Now I´m married with children… And to be very honest I did not ordered my favorites from the DEV 20 contest until now. I have my list. You know…I hope many entries will come! Wink

Por M-A-D-M-A-X

Expert (75)

imagem de M-A-D-M-A-X

31-12-2020, 16:58

Great news ! Big smile

Por MSXdev Team

Master (224)

imagem de MSXdev Team

31-12-2020, 17:10

mzoran wrote:

Great news ! Does it mean that this year if we donate we can still submit an entry ?

We will get back to you on that. It shouldn't be a problem.

Por MSXdev Team

Master (224)

imagem de MSXdev Team

31-12-2020, 17:20

1

DamnedAngel wrote:

this demand extra effort for the organizers and jury

+

1

santiontanon wrote:

the years that this category has existed, it received VERY little attention (3 games at most if I remember correctly).

=

2

Smile

Por MSXdev Team

Master (224)

imagem de MSXdev Team

31-12-2020, 17:21

ren wrote:

a game that takes advantage of >= MSX2 (e.g. improved palette), or (sound) expansions is nice/interesting. You could consider to give well executed extras bonus points (that have some weight in the final verdict)? (This could cater to the > MSX1/minimum wishes among some as well.)

As with past editions, the jury is expected to take these kind of things into regard in their judgement.

ren wrote:

I'm missing (perhaps) a description of how the entries will be judged (what criteria, weight, etc.)

Same as previous years - 5 categories, namely Gameplay, Graphics, Sound, Originality, and Polish.
The sum of the individual scores in each category is the total score of the particular entry.

ren wrote:

I remember an edition in the past where one could donate in relation to a specific 'trait', like 'best soundtrack'. Is that applicable this edition?

Maybe you missed it Wink but it says right here in this newspost as well on the official site:

MSXdev Team wrote:

People who donate either money or tangible prizes are also allowed to specify a certain category to which they wish the reward will go to. Think along the vein of "Most Original Game", "Best Soundtrack", "Highest Ranked Shooter", etcetera.

ren wrote:

MSXdev Team' === (a subset of) the MRC staff I guess?

Basically, the organization has been relinquished to MRC, yes.
Thank you for your interest and kind suggestions. Smile

Por PingPong

Prophet (3754)

imagem de PingPong

31-12-2020, 22:17

sd_snatcher wrote:

I love this contest, but can't contain myself to nag about the MSX1-only restriction. I wonder if other platforms did the same:

and now, ladies and gentlemen, with those beautiful specs, let's start with "pong clones" saga.
Tongue

Por syn

Prophet (2061)

imagem de syn

31-12-2020, 23:52

While the msx userbase like to see msx2 or up games, I think most of the developers are interested in developing for MSX1 only. If im correct even most games that are released outside of contests are msx1 as well.

We at #msxdev tried to set up a contest a few years back, and while the initial reception was decent it just wasnt enough to keep it going.

I guess a lot of people think they really need to make the next sd snatcher/space manbow/sold snake when they are creating things for msx2 and up.. while instead you can just aim for whatever game you would make on an msx 1 but with different palette and more sprites.

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9883)

imagem de wolf_

01-01-2021, 01:39

syn wrote:

I think most of the developers are interested in developing for MSX1 only.

Maybe. However, there may be another thing to consider. It could perhaps be that coders want quick screen updates, which gives pattern mode the edge. Now you could choose screen 4, but if you don't need many sprites on a row, and you don't fancy an MSX2 palette, you may as well choose to go back to MSX1.

Por Vampier

Prophet (2385)

imagem de Vampier

01-01-2021, 02:48

16Kb? Hey even the good Konami games are 32/64kb minimal

Por Wlcracks

Champion (438)

imagem de Wlcracks

01-01-2021, 09:41

Very Cool!
But (just my thoughts)
I like MSX1 very much, but a petty there is no other category next to basic MSX1, because a lot of cool hardware out there newly released could be supported and get some new software. Thinking about GR8net, OPL4, big memory expansions, dual psg etc. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of getting the max out of MSX1 hardware, like they do at C64 but there is a lot of hardware out there that could have some more software support motivation. Let the developers decide what category they like todo.

Por santiontanon

Paragon (1433)

imagem de santiontanon

01-01-2021, 19:13

Btw, I missed the logo images in the news!! Very cool! my favorite is the middle one (joystick at the top and letters at the bottom)!

Por tfh

Prophet (2931)

imagem de tfh

01-01-2021, 19:46

What is meant by the RAM: 16Kbyte?
Really only 16KByte? So 32/48Kbyte games are not allowed? I really liked the idea that it was allowed to make like a mega-rom last year.

Por hamlet

Scribe (3623)

imagem de hamlet

01-01-2021, 20:07

@tfh

Por albs_br

Champion (315)

imagem de albs_br

01-01-2021, 20:14

Minimum RAM: 16Kb
ROM limit: none
Both same as last year

Por tfh

Prophet (2931)

imagem de tfh

01-01-2021, 20:18

You are right indeed: I should have checked the page with the rules.

Quote:

Regarding the ROM size, any size will be accepted.

Por albs_br

Champion (315)

imagem de albs_br

01-01-2021, 20:18

syn wrote:

While the msx userbase like to see msx2 or up games, I think most of the developers are interested in developing for MSX1 only. If im correct even most games that are released outside of contests are msx1 as well.

Speaking for myself, I would try a MSX 2 game if it were an option. The incentive to learn something new is always greater than to impreve something you already know (for me, at least).

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9883)

imagem de wolf_

01-01-2021, 21:56

With unlimited ROM size, you can fit in an MSX2 port easily, next to the official MSX1 contest version. Select the version at start-up. So, if you make a game like KV2, you'll win with the MSX1 version in pattern mode and everyone probably plays and enjoys the more detailed MSX2 version in screen 5. Hannibal

Por hbarcellos

Hero (628)

imagem de hbarcellos

02-01-2021, 03:17

sd_snatcher wrote:

I love this contest, but can't contain myself to nag about the MSX1-only restriction. I wonder if other platforms did the same:

  • SMSdev contest: But we'll only accept the SG-1000 mk1/mk2 specs
  • AmigaDev contest: But we'll only accept the OCS specs.
  • PCdev contest: But we'll only accept the IBM-5150 specs
  • SpeccyDev contest: But we'll only accept entries for the ZX-Spectrum 48 specs
  • CPCdev contest: But we'll only accept the CPC-464 specs
  • PC-98dev: But we'll only accept entries for the first PC-9801 / 5MHz / 8 colors / beeper model

Running Naked in a Field of Flowers

AFAIK, restriction occurs as the community found a logical correlation:
- The more complex the hardware accepted, the less entries they get.

It's way easier and faster to code, create sound and GFX for MSX1 than it is for MSX2.
It's way easier to create something Impressive for MSX1 than it is for MSX2
Even a single person ream can, with all the tools we have today, code something that looks professional enough that could have been a hit back in the 80s.
Complexity grows exponentially.

Por albs_br

Champion (315)

imagem de albs_br

02-01-2021, 19:10

wolf_ wrote:

With unlimited ROM size, you can fit in an MSX2 port easily, next to the official MSX1 contest version. Select the version at start-up. So, if you make a game like KV2, you'll win with the MSX1 version in pattern mode and everyone probably plays and enjoys the more detailed MSX2 version in screen 5. Hannibal

I'm not a 9938 expert by any means, but for me it looks like an entire new way of drawing graphics. Bitmap vs tilemap. It would be almost two different games with few pieces of code in common (music and game logic?). The exception is the screen 4 which is the same as screen 2 with the new mode 2 sprites.

Por albs_br

Champion (315)

imagem de albs_br

02-01-2021, 19:13

Also, I would like to suggest to give some gift for every contender, something simple as a sticker or even a personalized gif image to be put on the personal website or github of the author.

Por albs_br

Champion (315)

imagem de albs_br

02-01-2021, 19:16

hbarcellos wrote:

It's way easier and faster to code, create sound and GFX for MSX1 than it is for MSX2.

Vertical scroll on MSX 2 and horizontal on MSX 2+ are pretty straightforward and a pain on MSX 1.
Same for multicolor sprites.

Por sd_snatcher

Prophet (3453)

imagem de sd_snatcher

02-01-2021, 19:47

hbarcellos wrote:

It's way easier and faster to code, create sound and GFX for MSX1 than it is for MSX2.

From my experience, it's the opposite. The MSX1 has so many restrictions that you spend a lot of time trying to do something that ou could do much easier on an MSX2 ou MSX2+, and use that extra time to focus on a good gameplay.

Quote:

It's way easier to create something Impressive for MSX1 than it is for MSX2

That's true, but only because there's this weird excessive expectation that MSX2 games must look nothing less than a 16-bit game, instead of something more on the level of a NES or SMS.

Quote:

Even a single person ream can, with all the tools we have today, code something that looks professional enough that could have been a hit back in the 80s. Complexity grows exponentially.

There's nothing that impedes someone to make a simple a nifty game for the MSX2. Megalomania can occur regardless of the MSX generation.

Hyper Somen and Nyan Puzzle are pretty good example of very simple and fun games that are doable on an MSXdev and whose complexity is much lower than many of the MSX1 entries.

Por ducasp

Champion (454)

imagem de ducasp

02-01-2021, 20:30

Sad to see that once again restrictions are in place for a MSX1 and 16K ram...

A good game isn't based on what system it is on, but a good game is made to fit the platform features... A shiny and beautiful game won't win because of extra pallette or scroll... On the other hand restricting to this extent is just harmful, a developer might have a nice idea that fits MSX2 capabilities, other than fits 2+,someone might have a good idea that would benefit from the extra cpu power of Turbo-R, but in the end, all msx games, the only category should be MSX (whatever version) and I'm sure that there are a dozen MSX2 games that don't hold a candle for good MSX1 games, so why care restricting?

Well, don't want to be an ass, respect you guys, just don't agree to such restrictions. Hope this will be again successful as last year edition

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9883)

imagem de wolf_

02-01-2021, 23:13

albs_br wrote:

I'm not a 9938 expert by any means, but for me it looks like an entire new way of drawing graphics. Bitmap vs tilemap. It would be almost two different games with few pieces of code in common (music and game logic?). The exception is the screen 4 which is the same as screen 2 with the new mode 2 sprites.

KV2 did it, with graphics for MSX1 and MSX2, though each version with its own cartridge. Also, if you jump, then you won't be landing on pixels, but on a map location. Whether this map location is being drawn by printing a character or by copying pixels in screen 5 doesn't matter that much for a game with static screens. It may cost a few interrupts more when switching screens, but that's it.

Por PingPong

Prophet (3754)

imagem de PingPong

03-01-2021, 12:56

syn wrote:

While the msx userbase like to see msx2 or up games, I think most of the developers are interested in developing for MSX1 only. If im correct even most games that are released outside of contests are msx1 as well.

that's obvious. the organizers made its best efforts to discourage games for new msx generations not only msx2

Por AnsiStar

Expert (86)

imagem de AnsiStar

03-01-2021, 13:01

Sure, i like MSX 2 games. But I think it is very charming and interesting what is possible for MSX I machines. Think of The Cure or Zombie I. for example. In my opinion the rules are quite right for this special contest! Wink

Por PingPong

Prophet (3754)

imagem de PingPong

03-01-2021, 13:01

tfh wrote:

What is meant by the RAM: 16Kbyte?
Really only 16KByte? So 32/48Kbyte games are not allowed?

the next context will allow only 8k ram. Why you complain? After all there is a chess game for ZX that's fits in only 1K if i'm not wrong

Por PingPong

Prophet (3754)

imagem de PingPong

03-01-2021, 13:21

sd_snatcher wrote:
hbarcellos wrote:

It's way easier and faster to code, create sound and GFX for MSX1 than it is for MSX2.

From my experience, it's the opposite. The MSX1 has so many restrictions that you spend a lot of time trying to do something that ou could do much easier on an MSX2 ou MSX2+, and use that extra time to focus on a good gameplay.

I fully agree.
the statement that msx 2 is more complex than msx1 to code with is the usual mantra that msx1 organizers recite to justify their point of view.
But from a logical point of view it could not be that the opposite

a) It's more simple to draw by getting crazy with the 8x1 color clash limit or be be free to place any pixel with the color you need
b) it's most easy to code a relatively complex sprite sat rotating routine or maybe avoid this when 8 sprites / scanline do not require any SAT rotation? Or we prefer to be forced for mono sprites in order to get a decent number of sprites/scanline ?
c) it's most easy to use a vertical scroll register (or horizontal one on v9958) that going crazy to have multiple tiles preshifted in VRAM (limiting the creativity because vram is not unlimited and the weird 1/3 screen arrangement make things worse when scrolling).

i think no-one could have any doubt about this.

Por ren

Paragon (1855)

imagem de ren

03-01-2021, 14:09

Talking about KV2... @sd_snatcher: dunno if you followed the xmas quiz thread, but I noticed in KV2 MSX1 the soul stones are animated. This definitely is kinda neat, and kinda dull MSX2 is missing that Smile Is that something you might be able (and willing) to implement in your KV2 patch?

PingPong wrote:

and now, ladies and gentlemen, with those beautiful specs, let's start with "pong clones" saga.
Tongue

PingPong wrote:

that's obvious. the organizers made its best efforts to discourage games for new msx generations not only msx2

PingPong wrote:

the next context will allow only 8k ram. Why you complain? After all there is a chess game for ZX that's fits in only 1K if i'm not wrong

Stop with your negativity / simple-minded bashing. Some of these comments are ridiculous (and you know that, or not?) Since you seem to have a lot of commentary a lot of times, I'm curious: can you point me/us to something you created for MSX?

Por PingPong

Prophet (3754)

imagem de PingPong

03-01-2021, 16:06

a) there is no negativity. only objectivity. And please do not call me "simple minded".
The simple minded people are people that say that coding for msx1 is easier than for other gens, while if you ask every developer in the world that is not biased like the organizers, there would be no doubt that coding for newer gens will be more easy. It is only a fact of objectivity not a opinion that if i got a powerful hw i can do the same things more easily or i can do things that are simply impossible on msx1. Otherwise why msx companies wasted they time in improving msx developing V99x8 V9990 OPLx and so one? if msx1 was enough to compete with others of the era there would be no reason to improve it. try to Ask yourself? "Why c64 makers did not improve for a long time its computer?" Answer: "It was enough powerful (even with its limits) to cope with expectactions"

It is clear that there is a bias on the competition to allow only msx1 entries. otherwise there will be no gain or waste to allow any other kind of competions. allowing other generations contexts does not damage anything or anyone.
If for example i allow a TurboR context and no one would participate there is no waste. simply there is nothing to judge.

b) what i've coded or not coded for msx is out of question, or maybe here one can talk only if have coded something? how i use my time in only a thing that has to do with me. It's not your business.
Coding for MSX1 VDP is something i do not want to take into consideration at all , and to be honest i consider the TMS VDP (a obsolete chip of '70) the main reason of the *not* full success that the msx deserved in the 80'.

Por tfh

Prophet (2931)

imagem de tfh

03-01-2021, 15:24

Although I personally also would like to see more MSX2 (and higher) games, you also have to accept that it's the one who organises a competition is allowed to set the rules as they want (and after that is up to the contestants to accept & enter the competition).
If you would like to see a competition with other rules, targeting another/all generation(s): noone is stopping you. And to be quite honest: I've been thinking about this as well: organising another competition which would more of a "freestyle" genre where one can choose to do a simple MSX1 game, or a full blown Turbo-R game requiring Moonblaster & GFX9000. But the fact that file-hunter.com probably doesn't have the right audience, the lack of entries in compo's where this WAS allowed, lack of my own hardware and the fact that MSXDev already exists has held me back from doing it. But, noone is stopping you.

Por Uninteresting

Master (219)

imagem de Uninteresting

03-01-2021, 15:45

A novel idea for a "pong-clone" can result in a good game. I'm actually playing a Pong minigame as a boss fight in a recent game (Horace) right now. Plus Bit.Trip Beat was, of course, a heavily Pong-influenced game.

8K of RAM -- well, there are "BASIC ten-liner" contests already, so I might still be interested in the added challenge of using only 8K of RAM. (I actually don't know how much RAM my games truly required if I just changed the RAM start address.)

Just my two cents... if the scope of the target platform was extended, I would still code for MSX1 only. (But I suppose I'm an exception for having no personal affection for MSX2 or later.)

As much as I hate to pit people against one another... the contest involves the organizers, the devs and the public who will play the finished games. I may be missing some group. The organizers appear to favour MSX1 only, the public presumably mostly prefers less constraints, and I don't know what the devs (other than albs_br) think, if we ignore the past number of entries for MSX2 or better. So... how are the competition's mission goals (probably stated on their website?) best achieved with reasonable cost and effort? (Completely cancelling MSXdev after organizers burn out or something is too big a sacrifice, and I refuse to demand volunteers to give more effort than they can or want.)

Are there other, possibly multiplatform, game competitions that would allow MSX2 (or better) entries?

Por PingPong

Prophet (3754)

imagem de PingPong

03-01-2021, 16:02

tfh wrote:

But, noone is stopping you.

the reason(s) that stop me is similar to yours, mainly the lack of time, and if you judge based on my posts you can see that recently i give very little attention to MRC.

And i also think this is the main reason that things go in this way with MSXDEV is the lack of people that build alternatives to MSXDEV. And the lack of people is mainly due to:
- lack of time (it is not so simple to post a message like "Hello, there is a new competition here!"
- a limited audience ( i think we are not su much interested in retro msx coding)
- ability to attract people

I'm sure that if one could attract a good audience with good prizes in a alternative /interesting competition there would be people interested in.
And this will probably force the organizers to change something in MSXDEV rules.

Por hamlet

Scribe (3623)

imagem de hamlet

03-01-2021, 16:18

Every competition lives from its participants. MSXdev tries to offer the largest possible basis for taking part in this contest.
The more participants, the more we win.
Anyone is free to add extra capabilities to their programme, and isn't that the spirit of MSX?
Choosing from many entries is certainly easier than choosing the only participant in the category "MSX2+, PSG, SVI RobotArm".

I am convinced that the criticism will not fall on deaf ears, but for this time you should use your energy to participate instead of searching for mistakes.
At this point, I would also like to urge a friendly tone and ask you to accept the rules that have been set.
After all, there is nothing else you can do.

Por ren

Paragon (1855)

imagem de ren

03-01-2021, 16:30

@PingPong, in my eyes when you're saying:

"and now, ladies and gentlemen, with those beautiful specs, let's start with "pong clones" saga.", and: "the next context will allow only 8k ram. Why you complain? After all there is a chess game for ZX that's fits in only 1K if i'm not wrong"

You're obviously sarcastic, and that can be regarded/interpreted as negative or destructive. A lot of nice games have come forth from this compo. "pong clones saga"? That's ridiculous / wildly exaggerated.

"the next context will allow only 8k ram" - again, you're bringing it down, ridiculing things.

There's negativity to be found in "that's obvious. the organizers made its best efforts to discourage games for new msx generations not only msx2" as well IMO.

I don't feel much for going into a lengthy discussion though, simply felt I should say something about it.

I'm not following everything, and I'm not an MSX coder, but I've seen your involvement in discussions, and you're not shy of giving your input / voicing your opinions. It made me wonder what you have to show for, but you're right: not my business, and o/c you're free to engage how you see fit (as long as it's respectful etc).

And of course you're free to express your thoughts, but you have a choice in how you express them: in a constructive or destructive/negative way.

Next: you might know a while ago there was a discussion here of transfer of 'ownership' of the compo. That was the moment you could have started a discussion. Why complain now. As MSX fans we should be thankful a compo like this exists, and actually brings forth quality productions.

I do think it would be nice to see a good discussion (evaluation) for once, which might result into a change of set of rules (instead of having (more or less) the same (implied) rules again).

I said 'simple-minded bashing', that's something different than calling someone simple-minded on the person. I could have left out the 'simple-minded' thing, I was primarily pointing at the repetitive negative tone here.

Okay, cheers, good luck, have fun.

Por mzoran

Master (131)

imagem de mzoran

03-01-2021, 17:22

Without knowing the entire history of MSXdev and (re)involving myself with MSX relatively late by making my very first game and entering MSXdev'20 edition, I can't understand constant complaints about this competition. Seeing in the tfh's summary of 2020 most played games, how this community is in fact small, and taking into account that MSXdev'20 was organized and judged by 2 people only, that had to quit because of lack of support - it is a miracle that MRC stepped up and organized '21 edition. It is unrealistic that after sudden change in organization, and having a successful '20 edition, a large change in rules would happen. Let us all give time and support to current organizers. I will try to submit a game this year also. If I can contribute somehow else besides an entry or a donation feel free to contact me.

Por Parn

Hero (651)

imagem de Parn

03-01-2021, 17:23

The rules state that "it is allowed to make use of additional MSX hardware but they will not be taken into account when determining the final quality of the game by the voters", which imho discourage using such additional hardware. Also, tbh, "additional MSX hardware" isn't exactly clear.

And @hamlet, I respectfully think it's also pretty disheartening reading things like "accept the rules that have been set" and "there is nothing else you can do". It sounds to me like those rules, despite generating such lively discussion, aren't really subject to discussion.

I honestly think great stuff can be done for MSX1, but as far as the hardware is concerned, the MSX1 looks a lot like many other systems based on similar over-the-shelf components. Notwithstanding MSX1 MegaROM games, I believe the MSX started to get its own personality from the MSX2 on, with its unique VDP (and particular usage of the OPLL).

Yes, I agree that anyone can promote their own contest with their own rules if they so wish, but let's be realistic: at best, it would divert attention from MSXdev, and at worst (and much more probably), it would be solemnly ignored. That's why we are taking advantage of this opportunity to discuss MSXdev's rules. I personally think many people already made some pretty good arguments and it would be a matter of courtesy, at least, to give some thoughtful attention to them.

Por PingPong

Prophet (3754)

imagem de PingPong

03-01-2021, 17:31

the difference between me and others thinking the same i think it is they use only a more diplomatic way than me.

The problem is clear here: If you push down the specs you limit the ability to take another kind of challenge and this result in the "pong like approach".
That's way my hylarious comments about the competition.

For example:
Suppose i'm planning to make a port of green beret and want to keep a decent level of quality.
If my idea was to create this game, and i face with strong hw limitations, i quickly realize that it is impossible (or at least impossible at decent level), so i will desist to do it. My other way is to choose another port, but maybe i WANT GB.
So probably i will not even take into consideration to go ahead or choose a very easy game to port (pong).
If the specs are more relaxed maybe i would accept the challenge.

Take for example the excellent port of GNG, it uses V9990. Would be possible to get at decent level on different MSX gens ? Let's see:
the game has :
a)full-omidir smooth scrolling,
b) three to five enemies on screen row at time, at least with two color per line.
c) some big enemies.

Here i score the difficulty level (Say DF) (that qualify the result-effort ratio), the higher value, the higher the effort compared to the result (and then the satisfaction). Values range from 0- easy, to 5-almost impossible

Let's assume that to not discourage me a total score should be not higher than 7,

MSX1:
(a) very hard to achieve, will limit a lot the number of different tiles, manage this would result also in non negligible use of CPU power - DF: 4
(b) worst case 8-10 sprites/row, let's start a flicker party ( i known, i'm sarcastic ) that made gameplay hard - DF: 3
(c) Big enemies are only doable with patterns, and if i want smooth scrolling i will be forced to move on a solid background and by 8 steps, but i've almost no tiles free because of (a) - DF:4

MSX2:
(a) vertical is easy, horizontal not so easy may be with some uridium like approach but not so easy, maybe worth the effort , the result pay for the effort - DF: 3
(b) worst case: i need some flickering routine but having three or four sprites flickering would not ruin the game totally - DF: 2
(c) Big enemies could be doable with bitmap gfx, and can move smoothly if i can accept to move on solid backgrounds - DF: 2

MSX2+:
(a) scroll is easy - DF: 0
(b) same as MSX2 : - DF:2
(c) same as MSX2 or better (maybe if i have some vdp time left i can also consider to have big enemy with full transparent support) - DF:2

V9990:
(a) very easy, pattern mode allow me relatively fast operation with low cpu load - DF: 0
(b) sprites do not require any effort, just place it on screen and they do not need to be paired to achieve decent multicolor. - DF: 0
(c) Here i can use the sprites or made some tricks using the blitter power of V9990 if i choose do not use sprites or pattern mode. - DF: 0

Let's summarize the totals:

MSX1: 11
MSX2: 7
MSX2+: 4
V9990: 0

Given that i judge that the effort/result will pay barely on a msx2 while better on msx2+, on V9990 is soo easy that there is pratically no real challenge . So i choose MSX2 or MSX2+ in order to achiveve the result.

However, if i want to take the competition and not only to code the game, the rules make me out of the game.
So i go to do nothing
- or -
to choose an easy (LOW SPEC) to port game, forcing me to think about "pong like ports" that are intrinsically feasible.

In the end, to make me life easier instead to step up to higher hw specs i step down the game specs by choosing a more feasible objective.

Take into consideration that the process i've described above is not strictly related to me but to any developer that knows the limits it has to respect to achieve a specific result and also know what level of quality want to achieve at minimum.

the end result is that will be a lot of "Pong like games" and no GNG port.

Por hamlet

Scribe (3623)

imagem de hamlet

03-01-2021, 18:07

PingPong, what is the story behind? Why you keep on complaining? The rules are there, go and make the best out of it.
Next competition we are happy to count on your help and advices.

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9883)

imagem de wolf_

03-01-2021, 18:14

I think we need to go back to the early years to see why there is MSXdev. We came out of the 90's with MSX2/+/tR/g9k/Moonsound 'n such hardware. Not always with lots of support for all chips, but it'd be safe to say that MSX2, diskdrive, FM-PAC was kind of a standard demo/gaming config. Then Viejo/Robsy came along, and were like 'whoah, no more MSX1 attention?' and the set up MSXdev as it was. But we're so many years on now, all these generations are old by now. I think the point has been made. You can make neat MSX1 games, but at some point you'll hit a brick wall and you'll be wanting more. The question is whether we've hit this brick wall already. The stone-age 'bigger specs lead to bigger games which will lead to more canceled projects' is a fallacy. Game development simply doesn't work like that.

If it'd be up to me, I'd say: any specs. Let the burden of the equal playing field lay on the shoulders of the jury rather than in artificial limitations. That is really the only factor that's important: the jury should know a thing or two about game development on all platforms. Most likely, a Nemesis 2 entry for MSX1 would win from an F1-Spirit 3D entry for MSX2+.

Por PingPong

Prophet (3754)

imagem de PingPong

03-01-2021, 18:39

Umh, i think i've fully understood my point of view, i suggest you to read carefully, my last post, and maybe thing get clear to you

Por PingPong

Prophet (3754)

imagem de PingPong

03-01-2021, 18:52

"The question is whether we've hit this brick wall already. The stone-age 'bigger specs lead to bigger games which will lead to more canceled projects' is a fallacy. Game development simply doesn't work like that."
Exactly. the problem here is that to develop something you need to get satisfaction. Developing msxdev is not for people that look for:
- Economical rewards
- Success
- Popolarity

instead is a matter of passion / feelings / personal satisfaction / sense of competition.

So the question is: i one aims to make a good port o the game X and the restrictions are setup in a way that
best efforts -> poor result -> low satisfaction
who will do it? no one.
if given 100 people, 30 give up because they are not interested (at those conditions), who gains? No one. (except the msx1 taleban fans), we are a very small group and there is no reason to reduce even more the possible n. of games.

There was already, in the past, a competition with a very small n. of entries if i recall well.
And 'strangely' the organizers releaxed a bit the specs...

Por Uninteresting

Master (219)

imagem de Uninteresting

03-01-2021, 20:03

Question for the organizers: Can I do something to help you in organizing the contest? I can take a break this year from competing -- if the next six months will be for me like the past six, I won't have the energy to write new games.

PingPong: Porting or writing a new game for a platform that cannot run it well enough is a flawed proposition for any platform, even MSX2 and above (excluding PC and present-day consoles, where you can wait for a few years for better hardware to appear).

20% may be a more accurate number for teams interested in MSX2 and above -development; 3/15 and 2/10 entries were in the open series in '18 and '17. This doesn't invalidate your point, though.

If you referred to MSXdev'15 and its 4 entries, which was followed by MSXdev'17 with the open series (that got 2 entries) and 8 in the classic series, I don't understand how the addition of the open series brought more than two new contestants (namely, those in the open series)? Or maybe I misunderstood your point?

Por PingPong

Prophet (3754)

imagem de PingPong

03-01-2021, 20:27

"If you referred to MSXdev'15 and its 4 entries, which was followed by MSXdev'17 with the open series (that got 2 entries) and 8 in the classic series, I don't understand how the addition of the open series brought more than two new contestants (namely, those in the open series)? Or maybe I misunderstood your point?"
I think it is at least clear and prove my observations. The more are the restrictions the less the entries.
MSXDEV organizers undestood this and, while partially , were forced to change some rules.
this had the effect of rewamp the interest of some competitors. but this does not mean that for that context they coded only msx2 titles, maybe their wish was for a game doable on msx1 so they coded for msx1.

Also if there will be an open context with all gens and a lot of people adhere to the new context i will be sure than msxdev will soon follow the change by relaxing restrictions, simply because an open context can reach all potential competitors.
about your estimations, i'm not sure how exact they are. they should be estimated in a time greater than one competition.

Por hamlet

Scribe (3623)

imagem de hamlet

03-01-2021, 20:43

PingPong wrote:

were forced to change some rules.

No one was forced, no admin was mistreated. Everything happened out of free will. Now do not get into this and please accept this year's rules. You will not change anything with your rude behaviour.

Por ro

Scribe (4451)

imagem de ro

03-01-2021, 21:21

The rules equal those of 2020 which was a good edition. The organizational shift called for an easy start; keeping the show running under the same conditions.

But, change is always good. So, let the organisers settle in this year while keeping the discussion going on the forum. That way we can agree on new compo limits, or no limits at all. When the time is ready.

Meanwhile, lez cram some code Running Naked in a Field of Flowers

Por PingPong

Prophet (3754)

imagem de PingPong

03-01-2021, 21:47

Quote:
hamlet wrote:
PingPong wrote:

were forced to change some rules.

No one was forced, no admin was mistreated. Everything happened out of free will. Now do not get into this and please accept this year's rules. You will not change anything with your rude behaviour.

just hope to not have touched with some exposed nerve

Por santiontanon

Paragon (1433)

imagem de santiontanon

03-01-2021, 23:27

I don't think it's a matter of touching an "exposed nerve" PingPong. I respect your opinion, but the problem here is that it takes a lot of time to do anything, e.g., organize a competition like the MSXDev. None of us "has time". None of us. We are all adults with a life, work and family, and doing anything (organizing a competition, maintaining a website, coding a game, etc.) takes time, which can only be obtained by sacrificing something else (sleep, work, life or family). The organizers sacrificed time to organize the competition and non-constructive criticism is not something that would go down well with anyone.

So, while I think it is healthy to discuss what would the community as a whole would like to see in the competition for the future, we should do it politely, and respecting the work that everyone else has done.

Por theNestruo

Champion (304)

imagem de theNestruo

04-01-2021, 12:29

@PintPong: The existence of MSXdev doesn't prevent anyone (namely: you) from organizing an alternative MSX2dev... Does it?

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9883)

imagem de wolf_

04-01-2021, 13:12

Having two contests at the same time doesn't mean a developer has time to make two entries. So this could render the amount of entries thin for both contests.

Por PingPong

Prophet (3754)

imagem de PingPong

04-01-2021, 13:54

i think you've not read with some attention my previous posts.
Try to ask yourself why there are not parallel context.
Do you think that all partecipants will not switch if there are alternatives because they love so much MSXDEV? No. they do MSX DEV because there are NO ALTERNATIVES. And is precisely this the main reason that allow the organizers to dictate rules without any regard of what partecipants wish.

The problem is that it takes time to organize and this is precisely the reason that justify that things are actually as are. If someone had time to organize a parallel context i will be sure that things would change a lot. But, as already pointed out, we are a too small comunity, so the chance to find some one doing something similar is very low.

Por PingPong

Prophet (3754)

imagem de PingPong

04-01-2021, 13:52

May be no.. if i can submit to both contexts...
but the real problem here is that i takes time, it is not enough to make a post on MRC and say "Hey, there is a new context here, join!"
you need a site,
you need time to test the entries on several msx machines
you need a jury. (and imho the winner should be decided by us using votes, not by a predefined jury )

in other words you need time, not all of us have time to organize all these things, so things remain unchanged.

Por tfh

Prophet (2931)

imagem de tfh

04-01-2021, 13:57

PingPong wrote:

i think you've not read with some attention my previous posts.
Try to ask yourself why there are not parallel context.
Do you think that all partecipants will not switch there are alternatives because they love so much MSXDEV? No. they do MSX DEV because there are NO ALTERNATIVES. And is precisely that thing that allow the organizers to dictate rules without any regard of watch partecipants wish to change.

The problem is that it takes time to organize and in precisely the reason that things are now. If someone had time to organize a parallel context i will be sure that things would change a lot. But, as already pointed out, we are a too small comunity, so the chance to find some one doing something similar is very low.

You know there actually was a second compo where almost any hardware was allowed? It was organised from 2012 / 2015 by the #msxdev IRC channel: http://msxbanzai.tni.nl/compo/

2012: 7 entries
2013: 2 entries
2014: 2 entries
2015: no entries

This is also a reason why I gave up on the idea of another competition. And as I also agree with Wolf that people won't enter 2 competitions. Anyway, we will see what will happen in the future. I am sure we will get to see some fantastic entries in this years MSXDev, even with the current rules.

Por ren

Paragon (1855)

imagem de ren

04-01-2021, 14:20

IMO, I do think it makes sense / it's time to let go of the MSX1-only focus. It's 2021, the world's going to h*** I don't know what, let's live a little Wink

IMO:

* a single, well-organized compo seems best (the scene isn't that big after all);
* accept MSX1 entries with the current specs;
* accept MSX2 entries: 64K RAM, 128K VRAM;
* reward extras (e.g. MSX2+ features, custom palette on MSX2, taking advantage of more RAM, Turbo, SCC/MSX-Music, etc.)

* although, games should be primarily be rewarded for, something in the order of the following:

1. gameplay;
2. 'engrossment' (one aspect of this w(/c)ould be game <> soundtrack+gfx alignment/harmonisation);
3. addictiveness and/or replayability;
4. originality;
5. polish/looks: gfx & soundtrack/sfx;
6. 'ingenuity';
7. ...

So MSX1 or MSX2 should matter not, and implemented 'extras' only to a lesser extent. On both platforms you can make a great game and be 'ingenious'.

Some things to consider:

* there are common expansions, and more exotic. Common seems: SCC & MSX-Music. MSX-Audio: less common.
* When game has SCC soundtrack, should it also have proper/polished PSG-only support, or is SCC considered as part of the 'virtual cartridge' (like a real Konami)?
* Then, what about MSX-Music (which is often an upgrade to the PSG soundtrack, right)?
* ...

But well, the 2021 edition has been announced, specs/rules have been set, and last year(s) didn't disappoint.

I figure there would be still time to adjust a thing or two, but that's up to the organization (who should primarily listen to the wishes of the developers / (aspiring/prospective) contestants I think) (at this moment in time anyway).

Por Parn

Hero (651)

imagem de Parn

04-01-2021, 14:25

@ren's ideas and @wolf_'s ponderations seem very sensible to me. I'd like to participate on an compo which didn't limit itself to MSX1. Not that I could even dream doing something at Relevo's or Santi's level, or even guarantee I could finish my project, but at least with MSX2 I would be more motivated to try. Yes, I know, I don't have much to show myself, which is why I didn't even mention my own intentions before. But I'm sure there are more people who think like me and are much more technically capable and could turn up with something really interesting as well.

Por FiXato

Scribe (1707)

imagem de FiXato

04-01-2021, 14:30

Those who want more freedom in specs, should perhaps consider creating a game for one of the many demoparties planned for 2021.
Sure, you'll be up against other systems and not just MSX, but they don't stand a chance against our beloved system with all its expansions, right? ;) This way you can also help disprove the falsehoods about MSX such as lacking smooth scrolling and basic speccy graphics, and spread the love you/we have for the system that's kept us entertained one way or another for several decades.

I would especially recommend multi-platform demoparties such as:

  • Revision 2021 Online, planned for April 2021, 2nd - 5th, normally held in Germany, though currently planned to be online-only, as last year, due to the global circumstances.
  • Outline Demoparty 2021, planned for May 2021, 21st - 24th, normally held in the Netherlands, though due to the global circumstances, I wouldn't be surprised if that would be held online again this year, just like last year.

Though other parties, such as for example LostParty in Poland, expected to be held from July 2021, 8th - 11th, usually have a WILD Compo category where other platforms are also welcome.

What's particularly nice about a demoparty, especially if you can attend in person, is seeing and hearing the crowd react live to your production. Perhaps a live-viewing party where all entries are presented at the end of the competition, could be a nice addition to MSXdev. :)

Anyway, let's all just enjoy the competition in its present form!
And remember, you don't need a competition to create a game or other soft-/hardware that's free for the community to enjoy. :)

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9883)

imagem de wolf_

04-01-2021, 15:15

A contest is a good motivation to finish a game though, and it's fun. That's also why people tend to stick to MSXdev, it's been here like forever. Wink

Por Oniric-Factor

Master (139)

imagem de Oniric-Factor

04-01-2021, 17:51

I have developed Games for both platforms. There are my two cents:

A good MSX2 Game requires a lot of effort. The higher specs makes some things easier, but the users are much more demanding: It requires the same effort for me to make two SC5 backgrounds that all the graphics and sprites from a MSX1 Game.

I would not make any restriction about the MSX generation. A good MSX Game can be better than a MSX2 Game.

Por ren

Paragon (1855)

imagem de ren

04-01-2021, 18:41

There are some MSX2 productions that actually look/feel (kind of) MSX1 Smile

E.g. Syntax Infinity

Doesn't have that typical MSX2 esthetic, but I dig it much.

In this case the devs probably didn't have more work since 'MSX2', probably more like close to impossible to pull it off on MSX1.. (don't know if they even considered the latter) *

But a demo like this is obviously a way different production that a (Oniric-Factor) game :)

* openMSX reports these screens used: :)

  1. loader: 5
  2. 3d line bridge: 5
  3. title: 5
  4. rotary stuff & face: 1
  5. vlm bars: 5
  6. grid / sine dots: 5
  7. explod: 4
  8. credits: 3
  9. 3 faces: 4
  10. trk/tlu: 1
  11. industry head: 2
  12. twister: 7
  13. kaleido: 1
  14. 3d objects: 5
  15. tunnel: 3
  16. blocks: 5
  17. vu spectrum / scroller: 1
  18. end screen: 5

Por defdanny

Champion (286)

imagem de defdanny

05-01-2021, 20:03

Quote:

E.g. Syntax Infinity

PSG Mayhem! Like! Cool

Por Manuel

Ascended (18072)

imagem de Manuel

05-01-2021, 22:31

Oniric-Factor wrote:

I would not make any restriction about the MSX generation. A good MSX Game can be better than a MSX2 Game.

Fully agree with you on that! And a jury can just tell how good the game is no matter what generation it is for.

Por pitpan

Prophet (3140)

imagem de pitpan

12-01-2021, 17:54

Good to see that the specs discussion is still alive and kicking. I will not explain my own views once again, although they don't carry any weight at the moment, not being involved anymore in MSXdev contest organization.

In any case, let me provide some facts:
- There was a 1KB PONG contest hold in 2005
- The organizers of any contest are entitled to choose whatever rules they want, and it is up to the developers to decide to join them or not
- Luckily enought, game developement is not only limited to contests: you can code and publish anything anytime and even try to sell the result if it is good enough.
- About required RAM in Konami MSX cartridge games, Manuel did all the homework 2 years ago
- Coding for MSX is an activity fun in itself

(and now it is time to teleport back to the non MSX-related kingdoms)

Por ren

Paragon (1855)

imagem de ren

13-01-2021, 09:16

pitpan wrote:

The organizers of any contest are entitled to choose whatever rules they want, and it is up to the developers to decide to join them or not

Sure, but let me bring some counterarguments for that Wink:

1. probably interest / (potential) participation isn't big enough to have more than one (relevant) MSX game-dev contest (which would also see enough sponsoring etc.);
2. it's not a bad thing to listen to the devs & community (esp. considering the previous point). So I'd say: why not throw in a feeler, and align accordingly;
3. so you can choose a (more or less) 'take-it-or-leave-it' stance, or try to set something up with potentially a wider (more including) reach. It's e.g. interesting to see Parn is saying he would consider entering if MSX2 entries were allowed. IMO it is somewhat of a shame MSX2 is left out this way (the 2 main/representative MSX gens are 1 and 2 right?)

But yeah, OTOH: no one is stopping ppl from setting up their own contest (and see how much traction they would be able to get), or creating something outside of MSXdev / any competition.

Ah, so 64K VRAM is actually the official spec minimum, could be the spec for MSX2 entries as well (although 128K is more or less the de facto standard right - which MSX2 machines actually have 64K?)

Por santiontanon

Paragon (1433)

imagem de santiontanon

14-01-2021, 18:04

I think I like the idea of some sort of "rotating rules" year by year, where in some year, say 2021, the competition is focused on MSX1, and then the next year, it is more focused on MSX2 and higher, etc. maybe the year after that it could be even narrower specs, like "16KB ROM games", and the year after that focused on supporting external hardware like v9990, etc. I think this rotating scheme would allow covering all the different sub-communities of the MSX scene.

Por ray2day

Hero (662)

imagem de ray2day

21-01-2021, 17:19

Uhm... I tried to submit my entry, but I got a 'Mail delivery failed' back! Shocked!

Por ray2day

Hero (662)

imagem de ray2day

21-01-2021, 19:49

Had contact with the organisation; Despite the ‘Mail delivery failed’ my entry is received. Smile

Por tfh

Prophet (2931)

imagem de tfh

21-01-2021, 20:20

ray2day wrote:

Had contact with the organisation; Despite the ‘Mail delivery failed’ my entry is received. Smile

Cool! Looking forward to publishing the first MSXDev'21 entry to my MSXDev Section.

Por Micha

Resident (34)

imagem de Micha

22-01-2021, 09:46

Great that you guys have a new Dev competition. Personally I like the fact that it is MSX1 only !
I will be submitting the arcade style game I'm working on in the next couple of months !

Por ray2day

Hero (662)

imagem de ray2day

03-02-2021, 19:23

Finally my 2021 entry is on the MSX Dev website! HooRAY!!
Enjoy; Tool Blocks

Por tfh

Prophet (2931)

imagem de tfh

03-02-2021, 19:36

ray2day wrote:

Finally my 2021 entry is on the MSX Dev website! HooRAY!!
Enjoy; Tool Blocks

The downloadink there doesn't work. Can you send me a copy to add to my MSXDev Section?

Por MSXdev Team

Master (224)

imagem de MSXdev Team

03-02-2021, 23:24

We fixed the issue on the official site.
Apologies for the delay. Please enjoy, if you didn't try it yet!

Por tfh

Prophet (2931)

imagem de tfh

03-02-2021, 23:37

Por aoineko

Master (163)

imagem de aoineko

02-03-2021, 15:50

Do you know if MSXdev game registry is a one-shot process or if we can update our game after registration?

Por JohnHassink

Ambassador (5578)

imagem de JohnHassink

02-03-2021, 16:16

You are allowed to submit updates until the day of deadline.

Por aoineko

Master (163)

imagem de aoineko

02-03-2021, 16:24

OK, perfect Smile

EDIT: By the way I have many of your musics in my MSX playlist. Thank you for the amazing work!

Por JohnHassink

Ambassador (5578)

imagem de JohnHassink

02-03-2021, 16:31

Thank you aoineko, that really means a lot to me.
I hope to upload something new in the near future. I think it has been a year or so.

Por Timmy

Master (158)

imagem de Timmy

12-05-2021, 14:12

I was trying to look at the rules page, but all I found was a 404.

Is there anyone I could send an email to for questions? I've got a (yet unfinished) game here that I don't know if I could enter it for MSXDev or not.

Por tfh

Prophet (2931)

imagem de tfh

12-05-2021, 14:43

Timmy wrote:

I was trying to look at the rules page, but all I found was a 404.

Is there anyone I could send an email to for questions? I've got a (yet unfinished) game here that I don't know if I could enter it for MSXDev or not.

Sure. Just mail them at: info @ msxdev . org

Por ro

Scribe (4451)

imagem de ro

14-05-2021, 21:31

Fixed the link!

Por Timmy

Master (158)

imagem de Timmy

21-05-2021, 15:00

ro wrote:

Fixed the link!

Thanks for fixing the link! I think I know the answer to my question, for now.
I am still undecided yet whether I will submit something, but that really depends if I will be able to finish it before the deadline. Smile

(Sorry I didn't had time to reply earlier; I was busy with vaccinations and doctors lately.)

Por JohnHassink

Ambassador (5578)

imagem de JohnHassink

22-05-2021, 00:19

Timmy wrote:

I am still undecided yet whether I will submit something

I'm pretty sure to not be the only one who hopes you will, Timmy!

Por Uninteresting

Master (219)

imagem de Uninteresting

23-05-2021, 21:15

It eases my mind that there are already so many entries; maybe this year I'll actually donate to the prize pool instead of participating to bolster the numbers.

Por Briqunullus

Champion (391)

imagem de Briqunullus

03-09-2021, 08:58

So the deadline is over, MSXdev is closed. Who would have thought. 34 freaking entries. Thanks to all developers for doing their amazing jobs.